Cadillac Owners Forum banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
98 Deville, '15 Ford Fusion Hybrid Titanium, '12 Ford Escape
Joined
·
3,294 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I am watching Modern Marvals "The Hardware Store" episode on the History Channel. (yeah shut up, i'm a geek like that)

When the Phillips Head screw was invented, Cadillac was the first car maker to start using this hardware break through (no pun intented)!

Henry Ford considered it but got in such a stubborn disagreement with the maker of the Phillips screw that Ford instead stuck with the slotted head screw for the first fords.

More proof that Cadillac has always been superior ;)
 

·
Registered
01 frontier , 89 Shelby CSX vnt
Joined
·
14,607 Posts
anyone who has worked on cars(or anything) for any perioid of time will realize there is nothing superior about the philips head , in fact it is far inferior to most any fastener out there , includeing flathead ....

trust me , i even had a certain GM employee agree with me on how aweful philips head is ....

but it is interesting about how cadillac was the first ....
 

·
Banned
1976 Eldorado project
Joined
·
1,631 Posts
Haha, I agree with Stoney. There have been many a time when I wished that a flat head would have been there instead of a phillips head.

I love the Discovery Channel.
 

·
Registered
01 frontier , 89 Shelby CSX vnt
Joined
·
14,607 Posts
terrible one said:
Haha, I agree with Stoney. There have been many a time when I wished that a flat head would have been there instead of a phillips head.

I love the Discovery Channel.
I remeber the nightmare .....

I had a problem in the main harness on one of my Airport fire rescue trucks , one panel was 8 feet by 8 feet , well over 100 philips head screws , all are ran into the aluminum spaceframe that makes up the body , machine fine pitch , non stainless ....terribly small .....

I had to drill half of those mother****ers out ......took me one whole day to get that panel off to get at the main harness ....

E-one forgot to mount a clip to hold the hanress up ....it rubbed away , shorting some of the eletrics out back
 

·
Registered
01 frontier , 89 Shelby CSX vnt
Joined
·
14,607 Posts
they always are , esp if you dont use the correct philips head bit , there are even varations on the philips head ....use the wrong one , and youll round it even faster


i had a few nissans ....i know what you mean there
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
92 Posts
Stoneage_Caddy said:
.....there is nothing superior about the philips head , in fact it is far inferior to most any fastener out there , includeing flathead ....
Hiya Stoney. I enjoy reading your posts, however I would have to slightly disagree with you here.

In high volume automation, such as the Lumber/Millwork buisness which I am in, where machines are setting screws in precise locations, the phillips head screw has the advantage over slotted or flat head screw when it comes to centering the screw before it is driven home.

The phillips screw, by design, once it is placed properly on the driver head is automaticly centered, whereas the slotted screw not having any built in boundries is not- the slot allows for the screw to slide from side to side and therefore the possibilty of not being precisly set is more frequent.

When you are trying to consistently place a screw dead center in a hole only slightly larger than the threads themselves that is a major plus. Add to this your being able to set and forget the screw instead of having to fiddle with it to make sure that it is aligned properly allows for greater speed (one door machine we use sets 18 screws at once - having to double check each screw prior to driving it home is time consuming - time is money).

Yes there are sleeve like devices and such which allow you to somewhat center a slotted screw but that adds its on burdens as well: cost in manufacturing the machine and more to go wrong down the road.

These devices as well may stop the slotted screw from sliding side to side, however they are not as succesfull in preventng the screw from rocking or pivoting back and forth on the drivers edge, which the depth design of the phillips screw does quite well.

Another thing to consider is that the Phillips head gives a greater surface area for the driver to grab onto. Machines which, for instance, use a certian torque to know when a screw is set can do so more reliably because there is less chances the driver will slip in the screw head - in the long run simplicity pays). More surface area means more gripping ability.

Dont get me wrong; in my nearly 20 years as a millworker & the companies sole mechanic I have cursed and drilled out many a phillips screw. Personally I like cap screws.....but they do not work well for hinge applications. Torque crews are great, but not widley used by consumers (take a poll on a street corner: how many people have a phillips head driver in a draw at home and how many have a torque set.) Popularity is an important issue when sellng a product.

Consider this: It is not uncommon to have home owners come to our shop to upgrade or replace damaged doors in their homes which were originally purchased from us by the contractor that built the house 15 - 20 years ago. The customer needs only choose what type of door slab they want. The door will then be bored and gained (drilled for the lock, the hinge locations routed, and the screw locations drilled) on the same machine their original doors were manufactured on and the new door will fit like a glove on the old jamb (give or take some settling to the house). That is because every hole and screw is in the same exact location as they were in 20 years ago.

I think that Mr. Ford would be proud.

K
 

·
Registered
01 frontier , 89 Shelby CSX vnt
Joined
·
14,607 Posts
KOBO said:
Hiya Stoney. I enjoy reading your posts, however I would have to slightly disagree with you here.

In high volume automation, such as the Lumber/Millwork buisness which I am in, where machines are setting screws in precise locations, the phillips head screw has the advantage over slotted or flat head screw when it comes to centering the screw before it is driven home.

The phillips screw, by design, once it is placed properly on the driver head is automaticly centered, whereas the slotted screw not having any built in boundries is not- the slot allows for the screw to slide from side to side and therefore the possibilty of not being precisly set is more frequent.

When you are trying to consistently place a screw dead center in a hole only slightly larger than the threads themselves that is a major plus. Add to this your being able to set and forget the screw instead of having to fiddle with it to make sure that it is aligned properly allows for greater speed (one door machine we use sets 18 screws at once - having to double check each screw prior to driving it home is time consuming - time is money).

Yes there are sleeve like devices and such which allow you to somewhat center a slotted screw but that adds its on burdens as well: cost in manufacturing the machine and more to go wrong down the road.

These devices as well may stop the slotted screw from sliding side to side, however they are not as succesfull in preventng the screw from rocking or pivoting back and forth on the drivers edge, which the depth design of the phillips screw does quite well.

Another thing to consider is that the Phillips head gives a greater surface area for the driver to grab onto. Machines which, for instance, use a certian torque to know when a screw is set can do so more reliably because there is less chances the driver will slip in the screw head - in the long run simplicity pays). More surface area means more gripping ability.

Dont get me wrong; in my nearly 20 years as a millworker & the companies sole mechanic I have cursed and drilled out many a phillips screw. Personally I like cap screws.....but they do not work well for hinge applications. Torque crews are great, but not widley used by consumers (take a poll on a street corner: how many people have a phillips head driver in a draw at home and how many have a torque set.) Popularity is an important issue when sellng a product.

Consider this: It is not uncommon to have home owners come to our shop to upgrade or replace damaged doors in their homes which were originally purchased from us by the contractor that built the house 15 - 20 years ago. The customer needs only choose what type of door slab they want. The door will then be bored and gained (drilled for the lock, the hinge locations routed, and the screw locations drilled) on the same machine their original doors were manufactured on and the new door will fit like a glove on the old jamb (give or take some settling to the house). That is because every hole and screw is in the same exact location as they were in 20 years ago.

I think that Mr. Ford would be proud.

K
I will agree , they are great going in ......in fact i cant disagree with anything you said there .....
 

·
Registered
98 Deville, '15 Ford Fusion Hybrid Titanium, '12 Ford Escape
Joined
·
3,294 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
I think the square head is even better than a phillips.

it's harder for me to strip the head.

I hate painted over screw heads. if i have to choose, i'd rather have a painted slotted head. i can at least scrape out the paint with the screwdriver or a knife. philips, most of the time you're S.O.L. and have to drill.

I tried working on a Honda (cough!) for a friend in a bind to replace brake pads and rotors. the rotors had a philips screw that held them into place (wtf!?) I could not get it out. i was really ticked.

also in that episode was this funny fact: in the days when the mid west was being settled home owners would often burn their houses town to get the nails back that they had used so they could reuse them in the next house!!! WOW!!
 

·
Banned
1976 Eldorado project
Joined
·
1,631 Posts
Interesting fact there iametarq.

Don't get me wrong, the phillips head definitly is easier to work with, etc than the flat head. It's just that once you start to strip them (which isn't hard to do in most cases) then you are pretty much screwed and it sucks.
 

·
Registered
02 DTS NightVision "Sled"; Waiting For The Coup
Joined
·
2,172 Posts
I am kinda partial to TORX myself. The thing about Phillips head is you don't know the exact size driver to use because alot of them will seem to fit. Do you use the sharp one or the blunt one, the thin one or the fat one, etc. With TORX, only the right driver will fit therefore limiting the chances of stripping.

My 2cents.

:)
 

·
Registered
94 FWB, 93 SDV, 94 FWB (sold), 90 Brougham (sold)
Joined
·
3,730 Posts
HITMONEY said:
I am kinda partial to TORX myself. The thing about Phillips head is you don't know the exact size driver to use because alot of them will seem to fit. Do you use the sharp one or the blunt one, the thin one or the fat one, etc. With TORX, only the right driver will fit therefore limiting the chances of stripping.

My 2cents.

:)
Nothing beats TORX bits. Now that's some surface area! I think Torx are the best for building just about anything, but that's a personal opinion.

Brian
 

·
Registered
None now...1972 Challenger=my pride and joy.
Joined
·
5,702 Posts
Yea, I hated the torx when I had to buy the set of sockets, but they've definately grown on me a lot over the year I had my Caddy.
 

·
Registered
'87 Jeep, '10 Thruxton, '00 Duc 748, '01 748R (853cc)
Joined
·
3,703 Posts
Jesda said:
Now thats a neat tidbit!

I love Modern Marvels. I recently saw the one called "World's Fastest". Those magnet trains are AMAZING. They just float down the track. No friction!

Mmmm...Magnetic Linear Induction....good stuff.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
150 Posts
The only reason why I prefer philips over flat is because I have a very unsteady hand. With philips its much harder for the screw driver to slip than it is with a flat.

I usually *HATE* working with flats.

TORX screws are good, unless you cant find your drill bit set :( It's happened to me a few times :(
 

·
Registered
08 Platinum Escalade, 08 CTS, 01 TransAm WS6, 07 SolsticeGXP
Joined
·
478 Posts
Robertson screws are the best ones!

They are all over Canada, but not as popular in the states....
 

·
Registered
None now...1972 Challenger=my pride and joy.
Joined
·
5,702 Posts
Robertson screws...I'm sure I've seen one, probably by another name, but what are they?
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top