[elwesso]

Beautiful.

I think that cadillac can be up at the level of BMW, Lexus, and Mbenz if they get their act together. You dont see very many older caddys that run 210,000 miles with not too many problems. The northstar engine would be the best motor ever produced if all that was required was the maintenance that they said. Thats one thing that i have noticed throughout GM. I have only owned, and my family has only owned GM cars. Theres just a lot of things that are just plain out cheap. I saw a Mbenz 500SEL with 485,000 and it looked like about 80k. That is a lot of miles. Thats over 19 times around the earth. Im sure that person had alot of repairs on it, but even the thought of a 94 seville lasting that long without a few engines is crazy. If cadillac can get their act together and make cars that will LAST, then they will be just as good as anyone else. I know alot of it has to do with how the ower(s) took care of it. Also, some of the components are cheap/cheaply designed. Obviously, BMW doesnt spare expense for quality. Dont get me wrong, i love caddys, but it doesnt seem like you get what you pay for.

The only exception i can see are the 93-96 fleetwoods (or any other car that used the LT1). I have seen those with 250k miles and seem to run great. There are a few other engines that GM makes that are indestructible (like the 3.1 v6, in the early 90s pontiacs). Lets face it, you dont see too many GM cars going much past 250k, and running like they were semi-new.

 

[BeelzeBob]

I hear a lot of people complain about the interiors of Cadillacs compared to Lexus, BMW and Mercedes.. I really don't see the problem - but maybe I'm just, well, not seeing it.. Maybe Cadillac needs to improve in that area too...

 

[elwesso]

I agree, and it goes with all GM. I think that your interior, and others on this board are taking extra special care of it. Most people just jump in their car, expect it to run, and look new without doing anything extra special, besides regular service. And that is basically what lexus and other import companies are giving- trouble free operation, literally. Ive seen Lexus' run 120k miles with NO problems, just standard mantainence. That is just outstanding. If cadillac can make what they advertise and claim, they will be the best in the world.

 

[Mad'lac]

I think GM was trying too hard to save a buck. They still are in the truck department.No matter what the name on the grill says .....the Escalade is still a Tahoe. I mean there are only so many ways to skin a cat.

 

[elwesso]

Exactly. I guess thats the american way. Its sorry to say, but the japs. may actually make better cars then we do. That is pitiful. The prices of cars wouldnt go up much if they would focus on quality and not on all the other crap they dump money into. Screw gas guzzling (although that is something that can be improved also), if you make a car that can last 100k with no problems its going to be worthwhile. My friend has a 95 or so Toyota Celica GT and it looks and drives new, with the exception of the plastic hub caps . It may require some other company designing the parts for us, but if thats what it takes then thats what it takes. Bentleys are still bentleys, regardless of the fact their under BMW (i think). If toyota designs a cadillac, its going to be a cadillac, regardless of the designer/builder. I am all for american made products, but if we dont stop slacking im going to buy imports.

Once again, if they focus on quality, then they will get more sales, and more profits, which lead to better cars.

END OF STORY

 

[Mad'lac]

Very well said. But I say what is american made? Hell half of all GM products are made in Mexico and Canada.And the new GTO is made in the Land of OZ. And now Toyota might build a factory here in Texas. I used to work for an Acura dealership when I got out of H.S. back in 93 and I was impress by the way the cars were made. Even if Honda is the one making Acura.I would love to get my hands on a 95 Legend Coupe.

 

[elwesso]

Yes, almost all GM products are made in mexico. In the 70s, Anderson, IN had 30some factories, and now there is only 1. Guide. Delco and delphi moved out just this week. The mexicans dont have unions, and they can be paid $5/hr instead of $40/hr.

I dont know if it is the cheapness of american made cars, or the neglegence of the designers, but all american made cars are horrible. Chrysler being worst, then GM and ford are about the same. When it comes to modular designs, ford is the worst. They only have 1 V8 engine, which they add various things to make it more powerful. Thats the way i see it, others may think the other brands are better.

 

[BeelzeBob]

When you talk about Lexus being so well-made, I agree. They have an amazing track record.. People like to make fun of people driving a Lexus saying things like, "Nice glorified Toyota".. Well, I hate to say it but Toyota makes one hell of a car - don't they? Cadillac does need to step it up.. Why should Toyota's be more reliable? Does it make any sense? Do we lack the technology?

No.

 

[Devil_concours]

actually gm is suppose to be #3 in terms of initial quality according jd powers (following toyota and honda). GM needs new engineers to do the interiors. Materials used in gm cars look too plastic like. More metal or wood might cost more but it can also attract more customers. my .02

 

[BeelzeBob]

Well. I'm not a big fan of the Altima metal look - but the interiors do need work. I just sat in a new STS and DTS today. They're cheap inside.. It's hard to say otherwise... When you come out of a Lexus GS, for example, you can really tell the difference.. You spend a lot more time on the inside of your car than you do on the outside.. The inside needs to be nice...

 

[elwesso]

Take in mind that JD power only looks at new cars. Most of the cars we talk about have seen their day. Mainly, GM uses too much plastic and not enough of the good stuff. It may take more effort and more money, but if the end product is better, then I say go for it. Even the fake metal they use is plastic. There's even littler things that could be improved on-- I have yet to see a decent cup holder that doesn't break and can hold those huge cups you get from gas stations, the headrest on my 01 tahoe broke because someone pulled on it, and now it doesnt adjust.

The list goes on... GMs exterior design is just as good as everyone else, but they lack interior. Even the higer class cars (like my fleetwood) have crappy interior, although better than the lower class ones.

 

[BeelzeBob]

When I sat in the new Caddys and started pressing some of the buttons on the dash and doors, the whole section moved - it was like... loose! The piece that the buttons sit in would be loose.. Eh.. What can ya do. Maybe the new Caddys will be of better interior quality. I know they're making a point of this for the new Vette...

 

[elwesso]

What can you do?

Me and some of my friends had a discussion about GM, chrysler, and ford (notice ford and chrysler dont deserve to be capitalized). We decided that GM has the most diversity in their brands. For instance, ford has basically 1 v8 engine, their 4.6 that they add various things too. Also, a crown vic is the same as a merc. grand marquis which is the same as a lincoln town car (minus some minor changes). and chrysler, their cars (chrysler, plymoth, and dodge) are essentially all the same, it basically depends on how much you want to spend.

 

[Devil_concours]

What can you do?

Me and some of my friends had a discussion about GM, chrysler, and ford (notice ford and chrysler dont deserve to be capitalized). We decided that GM has the most diversity in their brands. For instance, ford has basically 1 v8 engine, their 4.6 that they add various things too. Also, a crown vic is the same as a merc. grand marquis which is the same as a lincoln town car (minus some minor changes). and chrysler, their cars (chrysler, plymoth, and dodge) are essentially all the same, it basically depends on how much you want to spend.

i disagree. All manufacturers are the same way in terms of cars based on same platform and engine. This is to save money in designing a whole new platform and powertrain. I think this is a good method and long as they don't make it too obious it's a good way to give us good products at decent price.

Engine
5.7 ls1/ls6 - Corvette, Firebird, Camaro, and GTO
3.8/SCed 3.8 - Grand Prix, Regal, Park Avenue, Impala, Monte Carlo, Bonneville, Camaro, and Firebird
Ecotec 4cyl - lot of saturns, sunbird, cavailer..

 

[elwesso]

I know that every manufacturers do this. For instance a buick regal is basically a grand prix, just with a more dressed up interior. What i meant to say was GM has the most diversity when it comes to styling. The buick and the grand prix do not look anything like each other. You have to admit, a mercury grand marquis and a crown victoria look almost identical, minus the emblems and the price. The vic is almost 10k more. Also (not that I care), but all of chryslers minivans look identical, minus the price and the emblems. I realize that they have different options, but overall they are the same. Thats the bottom line. That is why i said that. I know that GM uses the same chassis and drivetrain for a lot of cars, but at least they dont make it obvious.

 

[peatea]

You guys are making me dread owning a Cadillac.
My last car was a Lincoln Mark VII with close to 300,000 miles on it. I never had any serious problems with it. It never burned or leaked oil, it was fast and the mpg was better than my Caddy. The only reason I got rid of it was that the body rusted away.
I bought my Cadillac with higher expectations.
Pat

 

[BeelzeBob]

Hey Pat,

Actually, the quality issue are existent in all domestic cars.. Foreign cars have higher quality inside and out. There's really no other logical way of looking at it.. The Cadillac you have now is better than the LSC you had - I've had both myself.. You can certainly feel it when you're driving.. Unfortunately, the LSC had much less to go wrong with it.. The Cadillac is of much higher technology - which means more possible problems..

You'll always have less problems with a car that's got no new technology.. What's to go wrong? So don't feel bad about owning the Cadillac.. 300,000 miles without any serious problems is an exteme rarity... No matter which car you're talking about...

 

[Devil_concours]

Hey Pat,

Actually, the quality issue are existent in all domestic cars.. Foreign cars have higher quality inside and out. There's really no other logical way of looking at it.. The Cadillac you have now is better than the LSC you had - I've had both myself.. You can certainly feel it when you're driving.. Unfortunately, the LSC had much less to go wrong with it.. The Cadillac is of much higher technology - which means more possible problems..

You'll always have less problems with a car that's got no new technology.. What's to go wrong? So don't feel bad about owning the Cadillac.. 300,000 miles without any serious problems is an exteme rarity... No matter which car you're talking about...

actually it's more like more technology that a lot of mechanics can't fix.

 

[BeelzeBob]

Right. It's more expensive to fix. But, I think Pat was worried about having more problems with the Caddy than with the Lincoln.. Basically, the more technology we use in cars, the more problems there will be..

Remember what kinds of problems you had in your car when high technology was a carborator? hehe. Times have changed... I had a '70 Nova as my first car.. Just the basics.. No big deal to fix... And not much to go wrong...

 

[elwesso]

Alot of these "problems" are in the technology and do not make the vehicle not run. The northstar system is very solid, but its all the little gadgets that fail. 300k with any car is unusual, especially without essentially replacing the car over its life. Theres no way around it, the Germans and other foreign people know how to build cars, and how to make them last.

The technology in these cars would really make the run better if they didnt fail. Alot of times what fails are the sensors, so i guess the car assumes the worst, and assumes the part is toast. Overall (not every time), you can drive on these things, but the car wont behave like its supposed to until you get it fixed