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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Stoney and I talked about this in the OK Cadillac Forums Members Thread. Basically, we're going to have something about Cadillac history each week, we can do it every Tuesday I guess (since today is Tuesday:sneaky: ). This bit of history can be about anything Cadillac, whether it be a model, an engine, a year, a designer, hell, we might even do the history of the cadillac logo:thumbsup:. This is basically to inform people more about certain areas of Cadillac that they may not know about or already know about, but want to know more...

I'm not sure if I'll do it every week or if we'll let various members suggest topics and/or write the history for them (I've already wondered about Sandy, as I'm sure he could provide a wealth of knowledge seeing as how he was in the business for so long...) We'll see how this goes. Basically, I'm going to tell about the topic and have everyone respond to it (what they think about it, why it succeeded/failed, how it affected Cadillac, etc.)

I'd appreciate if you didn't go off topic or discuss anything besides the current topic at hand (I'd like this topic to stay organized). Thanks in advance:sneaky: ALSO, ONCE WE'VE MOVED ON TO THE NEXT TOPIC, PLEASE DON'T POST ANYTHING ABOUT THE OLDER TOPICS IN THIS THREAD....

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This weeks topic (October 25, 2005) is..........The Cadillac Cimmaron:

The Cadillac Cimarron was first introduced by GM in 1981 for the 1982 model year.
Although GM had experimented before with smaller Cadillacs such as the Seville, the Cimarron was by far the smallest and, in many opinions, the least distinguished Cadillac model ever produced, before or since.
General Motors had originally planned on revealing the Cimarron model in the mid-80s. However, a rising demand for smaller, more fuel efficient cars and GM's desire to compete with BMW and Mercedes helped to hurry production.
The Cimarron was part of General Motors' "J-car" line, which was an economy car concept (similar to Chrysler's K-car) that spread over each GM marque. Each GM division had their version: the Buick Skyhawk, Pontiac Sunbird, Oldsmobile Firenza and the Chevrolet Cavalier. Each of these models were essentially the same basic car, with minor differences in features and major differences in price. This was the first and only time in history that General Motors produced a common model that spread over all GM car divisions (excluding GMC).
While some motoring press critics had high praise for the car and Cadillac's first manual transmission since the early 1950s, the car buying public saw the Cimmaron as a ruse. Consumers thought it was absurd to pay twice as much for what essentially was a well-optioned Chevy Cavalier with Cadillac emblems, and thought GM should have developed a compact model specifically for Cadillac. Even though interior fabrics and craftsmanship were top notch, the Cimarron took a lot of criticism for its standard four-cylinder engine (a V6 engine was standard in 1987 and 1988). Even though the Cimarron had grown comparatively more refined by the end of its production run, buyers stayed away, and the car was discontinued after 1988. Oddly, a similar strategy applied to the Cadillac Escalade, which 14 years later was proven to be a sales success...
 

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Re: Cadillac History (Sticky This Stoney!)

Interesting! Thought I've read somewhere that it was actually the "Cimarron by Cadillac," so as not to diminish the Cadillac name. This true? How much does a good conditioned model go for? They must be damn rare, I don't think I've ever seen one.
 

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Re: Cadillac History (Sticky This Stoney!)

Well, the later models (87 and 88) are considered to be perfect by many people. Not only did they have the V6, but the Cimarrons are reported to have some of the most comfortable seats in a car EVER. The cars themselves are very rare today, although they are still out there...

Here is a great Cardomain site on them (you can see more pictures here):
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/265681

Personally, I would have loved to have one of the 88 models, as they were the perfect compact luxury car. They have been one of the few "entry level" Cadillacs, with the only others being the new BLS and the old Series 60/61...
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Re: Cadillac History (Sticky This Stoney!)

I thought Stoney wasn't a mod in the lounge anymore?? Can he sticky it?
Oops. Well, can brougham do it then? Thanks to whoever does it...
 

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Re: Cadillac History (Sticky This Stoney!)

I never sold Cadillacs.

I sold (in order):-
Dodge
Chevrolet
ICP = (Imperial, Chrysler, Plymouth)
Ford
ICP (different dealer)
Pontiac
Oldsmobile
Lincoln-Mercury
Subaru
and back to
DODGE.
10 dealers in 30 years. I never sold Buick nor Cadillac, nor Jeep / Eagle / AMC
 

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Re: Cadillac History (Sticky This Stoney!)

Well, you may not have sold them, but you do own one, and I'm sure you had to learn something about them since they were your main competitors when you were selling Imperials and Lincolns...:thumbsup: You've been around longer than some of us, you ARE an expert in American Luxury (aren't you???) I'm sure you remember the Cimarrons when they were new, don't you?

I didn't mean to put you on the spot, you certainly don't have to contribute to this if you don't want to Sandy. But I thought you might be interested...But if you aren't, thats fine too...:thumbsup:
 

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No, I am not saying I don't want to contribute, not at all, and I thank you for the extreme compliment. What I am saying (maybe out loud, to myself) is I can't think of anything that I think is worthwhile enough to keep people's interest. I mean, I recall the Caddies all the way bac to the 1954s... but what can I say about them ? I was just 8 years old.
Had I sold them & been involved in that arena, then maybe I'd have something. In truth, yes, I bought my 93 Sixty Special. I told the story on here of my Mom & that car (I think..) So, I need an idea of merit. I'll try & work on it. I hope you understand better now.

Funny thing, Cadillac & Lincoln shoppers cross shop one & other, so sales personal need to know the competition to some degee. Imperial shopers were not shoppers. They WANTED an Imperial, usually having had 1 or 2 or 3 prior. They really didn't care what Caddy or Lincoln were up to. They might shop 2 or 3 ICP dealers, but in the end, they were driving out in an Imp.
(Similiar to a BMW shopper today.)
 

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Discussion Starter #13
any production numbers for the Cimmer?
I know they sold less than 20,000 a year. They weren't very high demand vehicles, but most people who got one loved them...

So how much would a mint condition cadillac cinnamon go for now?... I mean cimerron :sneaky: ... lol
No more than $2500...

So, I need an idea of merit. I'll try & work on it. I hope you understand better now.
I do, I'm sorry if I assumed too much:canttalk:. If you want (or anybody else for that matter) you can suggest topics for me to do each week (I'd prefer you PM them to me so that we don't make this topic cluttered)Thanks guys...
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Here is the update for the week of (October 31, 2005). Normally I would wait till tommorow, but seeing as today is Halloween, I decided to do something a bit scary in Cadillac's history...:lildevil:

The L62 V8-6-4 engine :bighead::bonkers::hide:

The most notorious engine in the company's history appeared in 1981. The 425 had been reduced to 368 in³ (6.0 L) for the previous year's L61 Model Range but the improvement in mileage was minimal. Desperate for an engine powerful enough to move the immense Cadillac sedans, but efficient as well (especially in light of CAFE mileage standards), General Motors decided to make the fuel-injected 6.0 L V8 a variable displacement engine. General Motors subcontracted for the creation of the variable displacement technology to the Eaton Corporation, the end result being the L62 V8-6-4.
This engine sequentially shut down pairs of cylinders when load was low, improving emissions and economy. The system was designed to reset to eight-cylinder operation when accelerating from rest or when the throttle was opened at cruising speeds. Cadillac hailed the L62 as a technological masterpiece, and made it standard equipment across almost the whole Cadillac line (the Seville retained its standard Oldsmobile-based 5.7 L diesel V8).
The L62 proved troublesome, both mechanically and electronically, the latter due in part to computer technology that was much too slow for the task. The V8-6-4 departed from the main Cadillac line after the 1981 model year, but remained the standard engine, without the v8-6-4 feature, for factory Cadillac limousines for another four years (due mainly to the insufficient power of the HT4100 V8).
No automaker attempted the same trick again until MB experimented with it on their V12 in the 1990s. It was not widely deployed until the 2004 DCXHemi and 2005 GM Generation IV small-block. All of these later systems work by deactivating a bank of cylinders, rather than opposing pairs.
 

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Chrysler must be doing something right with cylinder deactivation in the 300. Hopefully it will work well in the Impala SS also, and thanks to todays better electronics it should.......a good idea to save fuel for the long run. Hopefully someday everycar will adopt that technology...
 

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Well like I said, GM is already using it (DoD) in the new V8 Impala, which has 300HP and 28MPG highway, and they plan to (obviously) use it in their redesigned '07 SUVs...
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Well guys, I'm a bit late this week (November 10, 2005) BUT, being late is better than not being at all.:D This week's topic is none other than:

The most AWFUL Eldorado EVER, The 1986 Eldorado!

If sales numbers are the measure of a car's success, the 1986 Eldorado was a disaster — a total wipeout. Cadillac sold a stunning 77,401 1985 Eldorados (just 105 cars less than the record 1984 model) yet managed to sell only 21,342 examples of the '86 model. When 72 percent of a car's market gets obliterated after a new model is introduced, that's a misbegotten new model.

Shrunk down more than 16 inches in overall length from the '85, the '86 Eldorado was truly a puny Cadillac. It was also clearly a two-door version of the also redesigned Seville, and both cars had awkward-from-every-angle styling. Inside, the interior was tastefully restrained, modern-looking and sterile. It was boxy, it was bland, it was conservative, it was stubby and it fit into parking spaces easily — it was everything buyers didn't want in an Eldorado.

But it was also the most extensively revised Eldo since the '67. Gone was the longitudinal engine placement, replaced by a transverse arrangement. The only engine available was the now-familiar HT-4100 4.1-liter V8, now making 130 horsepower and matched to a new four-speed automatic transaxle. So, although weight was down to just 3,291 pounds, the new Eldorado was slow, too.

No wonder it didn't sell, it looks awful!:

 
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