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2010 CTS-4 3.6 & 2008 SRX-4 V6
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While I certainly wish Cadillac the best of luck, they'll need to pull off something miraculous to go up against the 3 series.
 

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2008 Cadillac CTS DI AWD Thunder Gray Chromaflair/Ebony
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Discussion Starter #3
While I certainly wish Cadillac the best of luck, they'll need to pull off something miraculous to go up against the 3 series.
What makes you say that? The CTS is pretty much already well matched against the 5 series at a lower price point.

Know one really expects the larger CTS to be faster than a 3 series in base form anymore than people would expect a base BMW 5 series to be faster than a BMW 3 series with the same engine. Otherwise, I'd say the CTS has already proved itself...now Cadillac just needs to follow through with other models of the same caliper.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/112_0907_bmw_m5_cadillac_ctsv_comparison/index.html

http://www.insideline.com/infiniti/g35/2007/comparison-test-2007-2008-sport-sedans.html

http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/comparison/2009-cadillac-cts-v-vs.-2008-bmw-m5-smg

http://www.insideline.com/cadillac/cts-v/2009/comparison-test-2008-bmw-m5-vs-2009-cadillac-cts-v-vs-2009-mercedes-benz-c63.html

http://www.auto123.com/en/cadillac/cts/2008/review?carid=1081000704&artid=95920

The bottom line: CTS is a 3 year 10 Best winner.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/09q4/2010_10best_cars-10best_cars/2010_cadillac_cts_2f_cts-v_page_4

The 2008 CTS won the Motor Trend Car of the Year award, and was selected to Car and Driver's 10Best Cars list.

In 2009, the CTS became the first Cadillac to be named to the Car and Driver 10 Best list for a second consecutive year.

The 2010 CTS was named to the Car and Driver 10 best list for a third consecutive year with the headline "Maybe the best American car ever made".

CONSUMERS DIGEST2010 CTS - A Consumers Digest Automotive Best Buy award winner

MotorWeek2009 Cadillac CTS wins MotorWeek's Drivers' Choice Award for Best Sport Sedan.

Kelley Blue Book's KBB.com 2009 Cadillac CTS wins 2009 Best Resale Value Award in full-size car category.

WardsAuto.com2008 Cadillac CTS amongst Ward's 10 Best Engines for 2008

Autobytel and MyRide2008 Cadillac CTS wins Editors' Choice Award for "Car of the Year" and Best New Entry Luxury Car Under $40,000

Kiplinger's Personal Finance2008 Cadillac CTS honored as "Best New Car in the entry-level-luxury, $30,000-to-$45,000 price class."

CNET2008 Cadillac CTS wins CNET Editors' Choice for its "sporting performance and unique styling."

Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS)2008 Cadillac CTS earns the IIHS's Top Safety Pick for 2008.

Popular Mechanics2008 Cadillac CTS takes home 2008 Automotive Excellence Award in Luxury segment from Popular Mechanics.

MotiveMag.com"The CTS is inarguably the best and most significant launch of the year, for the way it builds upon, rather than nullifies, the virtues of its predecessor. It just seems to have gotten everything right; its styling, powertrain, interior, pricing, chassis dynamics, and even marketing are blindingly great." - Eddie Alterman, MotiveMag.com, 2/08

Edmunds' Inside Line"...CTS beat out the BMW 328i and the redesigned Mercedes-Benz C300 in Consumer Reports' latest test of upscale sport sedans." - Edmunds' Inside Line

Roadfly.com"Craftsmanship and class are the key elements in the '08 CTS."

CNNMoney.com"...the new CTS isn't just the best Cadillac yet. It's very nearly the best Cadillac one could imagine." - Peter Valdes-Dapena, CNNMoney.com, 10/07

Washington Post"Luxurious and affordable, even for the purists" - Warren Brown, Washington Post, 9/07

http://www.cadillac.com/experience/awards/
 

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2008 CTS 3.6L DI RWD, GMPP new engine 11/2013
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While I certainly wish Cadillac the best of luck, they'll need to pull off something miraculous to go up against the 3 series.
:yeah:​

What do real people actually buy after comparing BMW and Cadillac?

Car and Driver 2010 Ten Best Cars
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/09q4/2010_10best_cars-10best_cars/2010_bmw_3-series_2f_m3_page_3
"Oh, Lord, won't you buy me a Bimmer 3?...the 3-series has earned a long list of comparison-test victories and now a 19th-consecutive 10 Best appearance...is there any higher praise than the fact that more of our staff has spent their own money to buy a 3-series than any other car?


2010 CTS sales vs. German, Japanese, U.S. competitors http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/2008-cadillac-cts-general-discussion/199147-cts-sales-down-21-1-ytd-3.html#post2253860


2011 Bmw 5-Series exceed the carmaker’s sales target
http://www.4wheelsnews.com/2011-bmw-5-series-exceed-the-carmakers-sales-target/
"According to the latest reports, it appears that the orders for the 2011 Bmw 5-Series are already exceeding the firm’sales target...For those who don’t know, Bmw already toppled Mercedes-Benz as the largest luxury-car maker in 2005 and has increased its sales by 27 percent since 2000."
 

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CTS 08
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302 Posts
Maybe people look at quality too...performance and price are nice numbers, but they don't mean diddly when your Caddy is always giving you problems. BMW may not have perfect quality, bit the perception of quality is in their favor tenfold.
 

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2011 CTS CPE
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201 Posts
Traded a 2006 BMW 530 for a 2009 CTS DI. I can tell you that Cadillac has a lot of catching up to do. First thing is to start with is an engine that has some toprque at =/- 2000 RPM.
 

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2009 CTS
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What makes you say that? The CTS is pretty much already well matched against the 5 series at a lower price point.

Know one really expects the larger CTS to be faster than a 3 series in base form anymore than people would expect a base BMW 5 series to be faster than a BMW 3 series with the same engine. Otherwise, I'd say the CTS has already proved itself...now Cadillac just needs to follow through with other models of the same caliper.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/112_0907_bmw_m5_cadillac_ctsv_comparison/index.html

http://www.insideline.com/infiniti/g35/2007/comparison-test-2007-2008-sport-sedans.html

http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/comparison/2009-cadillac-cts-v-vs.-2008-bmw-m5-smg

http://www.insideline.com/cadillac/cts-v/2009/comparison-test-2008-bmw-m5-vs-2009-cadillac-cts-v-vs-2009-mercedes-benz-c63.html

http://www.auto123.com/en/cadillac/cts/2008/review?carid=1081000704&artid=95920

The bottom line: CTS is a 3 year 10 Best winner.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/09q4/2010_10best_cars-10best_cars/2010_cadillac_cts_2f_cts-v_page_4

The 2008 CTS won the Motor Trend Car of the Year award, and was selected to Car and Driver's 10Best Cars list.

In 2009, the CTS became the first Cadillac to be named to the Car and Driver 10 Best list for a second consecutive year.

The 2010 CTS was named to the Car and Driver 10 best list for a third consecutive year with the headline "Maybe the best American car ever made".

CONSUMERS DIGEST2010 CTS - A Consumers Digest Automotive Best Buy award winner

MotorWeek2009 Cadillac CTS wins MotorWeek's Drivers' Choice Award for Best Sport Sedan.

Kelley Blue Book's KBB.com 2009 Cadillac CTS wins 2009 Best Resale Value Award in full-size car category.

WardsAuto.com2008 Cadillac CTS amongst Ward's 10 Best Engines for 2008

Autobytel and MyRide2008 Cadillac CTS wins Editors' Choice Award for "Car of the Year" and Best New Entry Luxury Car Under $40,000

Kiplinger's Personal Finance2008 Cadillac CTS honored as "Best New Car in the entry-level-luxury, $30,000-to-$45,000 price class."

CNET2008 Cadillac CTS wins CNET Editors' Choice for its "sporting performance and unique styling."

Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS)2008 Cadillac CTS earns the IIHS's Top Safety Pick for 2008.

Popular Mechanics2008 Cadillac CTS takes home 2008 Automotive Excellence Award in Luxury segment from Popular Mechanics.

MotiveMag.com"The CTS is inarguably the best and most significant launch of the year, for the way it builds upon, rather than nullifies, the virtues of its predecessor. It just seems to have gotten everything right; its styling, powertrain, interior, pricing, chassis dynamics, and even marketing are blindingly great." - Eddie Alterman, MotiveMag.com, 2/08

Edmunds' Inside Line"...CTS beat out the BMW 328i and the redesigned Mercedes-Benz C300 in Consumer Reports' latest test of upscale sport sedans." - Edmunds' Inside Line

Roadfly.com"Craftsmanship and class are the key elements in the '08 CTS."

CNNMoney.com"...the new CTS isn't just the best Cadillac yet. It's very nearly the best Cadillac one could imagine." - Peter Valdes-Dapena, CNNMoney.com, 10/07

Washington Post"Luxurious and affordable, even for the purists" - Warren Brown, Washington Post, 9/07

http://www.cadillac.com/experience/awards/
GM's reliability, that's what! Until GM fixes that, they will have trouble catching BMW or any of there other competitors. I'm not saying the CTS isn't special, but go to any web site, publications, etc. that deals with reliability and you will see the hurdle GM has to make. IMHO.
 

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2008 Cadillac CTS DI AWD Thunder Gray Chromaflair/Ebony
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Discussion Starter #8
Is this a BMW fan site....I must be in the wrong forum??? So we're talking quality compared to BMW...what about some facts:

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/dependability-ratings-by-brand

BMW & Caddy are tie, and Buick blows both away for 2010 according to J.D. Power on the reliability ratings

"Lexus' rating, for example, equates to 0.84 problems per vehicle, and the rating for Mini, which finished last, equals 1.65 problems per vehicle. So on average, less than one problem per vehicle separates the best brand from the worst." (BTW, Mini is owned by BMW)

This quote from JD powers shows almost all brands are very close to each other in terms of overall reliability and I haven't seen any reports giving BMW any real bragging rights for reliability compared to Cadillac.
 

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2008 CTS 3.6L DI RWD, GMPP new engine 11/2013
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2,092 Posts
A few thoughts...

J. D. Power is a co-dependent auto industry cheerleader and consultant. Unlike independent Consumer Reports and True Delta, JDP's first loyalty is to the auto industry - not consumers. Accordingly, JDP's selective data and public-release presentation style tends to minimize differences between best and worst - in my opinion.
http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/dependability-ratings-by-brand
BMW & Caddy are tie, and Buick blows both away for 2010 according to J.D. Power on the reliability ratings
The cited J.D.Power 2010 Vehicle Dependability Study (VDS) includes only 3-yr-old vehicles (2007 model-yr) and then only problems that occurred in the 3rd year of ownership. To date the study has not included 2nd gen CTS nor its effect on the overall Cadillac brand ranking. And JDP's Initial Quality Study (IQS) includes only the first 90 days of new vehicle ownership, so there's a missing 21-month gap of unreported vehicle problems from the end of the IQS to the beginning of the VDS for any given vehicle model-year.

In the 2009 IQS (most recent as I write, and includes 2nd gen CTS) for "Overall Quality - Mechanical," Cadillac and 20 other brands earned 3 stars and tied for 7th place behind 5-star winner Lexus and 4-star runners-up BMW, Buick, Mercedes Benz, Porsche, and Toyota. http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/quality-ratings-by-brand

"Lexus' rating, for example, equates to 0.84 problems per vehicle, and the rating for Mini, which finished last, equals 1.65 problems per vehicle. So on average, less than one problem per vehicle separates the best brand from the worst." (BTW, Mini is owned by BMW)
This quote from JD powers shows almost all brands are very close to each other in terms of overall reliability and I haven't seen any reports giving BMW any real bragging rights for reliability compared to Cadillac.
So, in other words, a 2007 Mini was about twice (2x or 100%) more likely to have a problem than was a 2007 Lexus. Of course, this example is a comparison of brands only. Quality and reliability variances are likely more significant when comparing specific models from different brands or even within a single brand. Many of our forum members know firsthand that even a single problem can become quite inconvenient and difficult, often requiring multiple trips to the dealer, and occasionally a lemon law proceeding.
 

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Cadillacs: '13 CTS Cpe, '71 Eldo Conv
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My 2008 CTS-4 has been a great car, one that is completely trouble-free since its delivery in December 2007, and my 2003 CTS was also a great vehicle for five years of ownership. In my opinion, there can be "lemons" or problems with any brand vehicle. Any new car today frequently requires tricky "trouble shooting" to locate the source of an erratic problem, largely due to the technological complexity. It is all the more annoying if it is a so-called "luxury" car that acts up. Fortunately, overall quality in the automobile industry is way up, compared to products prior to the last twenty years, so these statistical differences are becoming more subtle. Cadillac has made, and continues to improve upon, a fine American luxury car portfolio--with the best styling of any brand! ;)
 

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CTS 08
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Bottom line: people buy what they believe to be the best car. Ask anyone in the general public under 50 which carmaker builds a better car, BMW or Cadillac, and the vast majority will say BMW. Why? Because BMW has spent the last 30 years crafting an image of no-compromise driving machines and impeccable German quality. Is that always the reality when we get down to hard stats? No. But most people don't sit around and pore over stats and reliability figures, except for the occasional perusal of Consumer Reports and their little dot-matrix reviews tables. Most people, being human, go with what they know, or in this case what they THINK they know.

What do people think they know of Cadillac?
1. Big cars.
2. Made for old people.
3. GM has spent the last ten years going bankrupt.
4. American quality can't match imports.

Are all those things true? No. But that's the beauty (or horror) of behavioral economics. Truth and logic take a backseat in many decisions.

Sorry, but when it comes to consumer preferences, perception is reality. Does Cadillac truly build a quality car nowadays? Hard to say. The reviews are mixed, and fit & finish issues are frequently cited. But what matters is this: does the public THINK Cadillac builds a car that equals BMW. For now, the answer is a resounding "no."
 

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Cadillac Maniac
Cadillac Escalade
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The Cadillac ATS and ATS-V will give the BMW 3-Series a good run for it's money. The new Cadillac CTS, built on an extended version of the ATS's Alpha platform (longer and wider) with it's twin turbo v6 will give the BMW 5-Series a good run for it's money as well. We already know how the CTS-V compares to the M5.. With the Alpha Plus platform, the CTS will have something to compare with the 550i and 535i as well.

While I certainly wish Cadillac the best of luck, they'll need to pull off something miraculous to go up against the 3 series.
 

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ZIP
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:yeah:​

What do real people actually buy after comparing BMW and Cadillac?

Car and Driver 2010 Ten Best Cars
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/09q4/2010_10best_cars-10best_cars/2010_bmw_3-series_2f_m3_page_3
"Oh, Lord, won't you buy me a Bimmer 3?...the 3-series has earned a long list of comparison-test victories and now a 19th-consecutive 10 Best appearance...is there any higher praise than the fact that more of our staff has spent their own money to buy a 3-series than any other car?


2010 CTS sales vs. German, Japanese, U.S. competitors http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/2008-cadillac-cts-general-discussion/199147-cts-sales-down-21-1-ytd-3.html#post2253860


2011 Bmw 5-Series exceed the carmaker’s sales target
http://www.4wheelsnews.com/2011-bmw-5-series-exceed-the-carmakers-sales-target/
"According to the latest reports, it appears that the orders for the 2011 Bmw 5-Series are already exceeding the firm’sales target...For those who don’t know, Bmw already toppled Mercedes-Benz as the largest luxury-car maker in 2005 and has increased its sales by 27 percent since 2000."
That's a nice boring retread of one single thought you keep bringing up. But I don't see BMW getting the 5 series into their 10 Best in consecutive years...
 

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Bottom line: people buy what they believe to be the best car. Ask anyone in the general public under 50 which carmaker builds a better car, BMW or Cadillac, and the vast majority will say BMW. Why? Because BMW has spent the last 30 years crafting an image of no-compromise driving machines and impeccable German quality. Is that always the reality when we get down to hard stats? No. But most people don't sit around and pore over stats and reliability figures, except for the occasional perusal of Consumer Reports and their little dot-matrix reviews tables. Most people, being human, go with what they know, or in this case what they THINK they know.

What do people think they know of Cadillac?
1. Big cars.
2. Made for old people.
3. GM has spent the last ten years going bankrupt.
4. American quality can't match imports.

Are all those things true? No. But that's the beauty (or horror) of behavioral economics. Truth and logic take a backseat in many decisions.

Sorry, but when it comes to consumer preferences, perception is reality. Does Cadillac truly build a quality car nowadays? Hard to say. The reviews are mixed, and fit & finish issues are frequently cited. But what matters is this: does the public THINK Cadillac builds a car that equals BMW. For now, the answer is a resounding "no."
It usually takes about 10 years for the buying public's perception to reach reality...
 

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GM's reliability, that's what! Until GM fixes that, they will have trouble catching BMW or any of there other competitors. I'm not saying the CTS isn't special, but go to any web site, publications, etc. that deals with reliability and you will see the hurdle GM has to make. IMHO.
Uh, right. Sure. Your perception, maybe...
 

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2008 CTS, 2004 Escalade, 62 Fleetwood
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BMW certainly makes great performing cars, but when my wife and I test drove a 335XI, i was kinda dissapointed with the interior for one....black vinyl everywhere....boring to say the least.....kinda like a 1980's Ford taurus....i could have gotten used to that, but the "delay" in the drive by wire gas pedal was too much, then i asked the salesman "if i change my own oil, can i reset the oil minder?" he said "no you have to bring it into the service dept for that"...........that was enough for me.........when we test drove the CTS my wife and i both agreed that for our money it would be more entertaining.........BMW's are great cars if they meet your personal taste ...who knows if they are "better" or not.......for me, i don't care..........i can fix things when they go wrong, but i can't "fix an ugly car"........
 

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2019 CTS
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My sister had a BMW 3 series for 2 months. Most of that time it was in the shop. She called the leasing company that BMW uses and said she wasn't going to pay for a car she never got to drive. They took the car back and canceled the lease. Too bad for the person that buys that low mileage used (remember it was in the shop most of the two months) BMW.
 
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