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Cadillac Technician
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Think about the perception of imports in the 70's vs what it is now.
The 80's was an awful time period for every carmaker, everything was crap, trust me I worked on all of it.
From VW to Rolls Royce, not a car out there didn't have issues.
What kicked the American carmaker's butts in the 90's is that some import carmakers really pushed in the 90's to figure out how to meet the government regulations for fuel efficiency by using tiny motors. The American car buyer has always wanted more power, more displacement, and more bells and whistles.
The last decade has seen the most impressive horsepower per liter improvements ever and now GM is working their tails off to meet your power demand with a smaller engines and alternative fuels and the gov't is about ready to smack them back a few billion in R&D by imposing even stricter standards.

If you look back at the heyday of American car companies you'll see there was limited competition and yeah maybe they even got a little lazy back then.
Nowadays they are working hard in a heavily loaded marketplace with more choices than you can shake a stick at.
Someone will always have some cool feature that maybe GM hasn't got but when it all comes down to it an American worked hard to design a car, an American worked hard to build it, and a lot of us Americans work hard to keep them running the way they are supposed to be.

That's really probably all I should say.

I respect the opinions of those that like foreign cars, they do make some nice stuff. Even though GM does stuff that pisses me off I still support the brand and my country and the hard working Americans that do their jobs every day to keep them coming off the assembly line.

My issue is this is a Cadillac board and no one is forcing you to love Cadillac. If you don't like them, don't buy them.

If Mercedes is so great, or Lexus, or Nissan, then go buy one. I can assure you they have mechanics in their dealerships and none of them are going hungry.
 

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Cadillac Maniac
Cadillac Escalade
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13,753 Posts
I can't believe that you think a carmaker is substandard because the turn signals don't flash 3 times by themselves.
I agree with most of what you have to say.. However, the 3-flash blinking turn signal is just something one expects in a luxury vehicle of this stature. Attention to detail.. This is something Cadillac should not have forgotten or thrifted out. Luxury buyers expect unnecessary things in their luxury vehicles.

Same goes for Lexus, who's probably doing more thrifting out than Cadillac these days. The new RX has minor issues that I would certainly not expect from a company "pursuing perfection". These issues we're speaking of here do not make a carmaker "substandard" at all. However, they're certainly leaving something to be desired. And when you're paying a lot of money for a vehicle, that's never a good thing...
 

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Banned
2006 STS V8, 1999 Seville STS
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596 Posts
There are some really great posts here. I wish we could give reputation points on this form.
 

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Cadillac STS-V Black/Black
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700 Posts
I agree that Cadillac cheaped out on a lot of features with the STS. My 2003 745i was a way better car in many ways and BMW customer service is the best I have ever experienced.

That said I decided to give GM a try again. My first GM was a brand new 2005 Bonneville GXP which was very problem prone. Customer service was the pits as well a quality. Anyway I vowed never to buy a NEW GM ever again and since the STS-V is such a great value I bought a 2006.

Had the car about 4 months now and so far I have had to have the engine and transmission replaced. GM customer service for Cadillac is outsourced somewhere because every rep i speak to even supervisors have deep accents but names like Mr Jone & Ms edwards lol.

Anyway I mostly have a problem with the GM dealers than GM itself. I have dealed with 4 dealers so far and all of them lag behind BMW in customer service and dealer experience. I hope the new GM will put a tighter grip on dealers and their customer service.

GM as a company has been making some great cars lately and offeing good incentives but the same old dealers that imo have been around too long and just done care like they should.

Things the STS should have
3 blink blinkers
power fold mirrors
reverse camera
better audio
HID high beams
power trunk
bigger glove box
lighted storage box
Massage seats

I know that would drive up the price but when you are buying a flagship I want to be offered everything
 

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06 Cadillac STS
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352 Posts
I'm not getting why anyone is comparing the 7-Series Bimmer against the STS. The 7 costs about $25K more, so it should have more features.....duh!

Just for the record, I've owned a '97 528i, '99 540i, '99 740iL, and '01 740i Sport (great car). We stopped being BMW people for 2 reasons:

1 - The Bangle designed E65 was just plain ugly--couldn't bring myself to buy one.


2 - A US manufacturer finally released a decent RWD V8 powered sport sedan--the Lincoln LS. Bought an '02 LSE, and really liked it. Ditto on the STS--American made!

My wife and I have purchased/leased over 20 new vehicles since 1987, and the biggest POS, by far, was the '97 528i.
 

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Cadillac STS-V Black/Black
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700 Posts
My wife and I have purchased/leased over 20 new vehicles since 1987, and the biggest POS, by far, was the '97 528i.
Meh I have had POS cars before but as long as the dealer treats me right I will deal with it. Only reason I sold the BMW was because the warranty just expired. BMW prices come with BMW service I guess?

Btw sts-v costs like the same as a BMW 7 series so thats why they are being compared duh...
 

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Cadillac Technician
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11,051 Posts
Having watched GM over the years I can tell you that when they roll out features like this they integrate them into the next upfitting.
I don't know why they didn't do this with STS but I am sure from an engineering standpoint it wasn't feasible and I am confident that with the way they have been rolling this out into new models that it will end up in STS provided STS stays around.

Sadly STS is one of the most underappreciated cars we make.
I love them, they are much more roomy and more comfortable to drive than a CTS. The only sticking point I really see on STS since the '05 came out is the nav radio. It was plagued in early production with software issues and bluetooth integration was lackluster at best. We still have issues with devices not working properly right up until the switch to BT in the OnStar module.. those are much more compatible and seem to be much more reliable.

Sorry if I popped my cork there, I am a bit passionate sometimes and my fuse has been burning pretty short these days. Lots of stress.
I even go to bat for a lot of you guys when I have engineers on the phone... ;)
I still wish they'd check with me more before they do stuff... but alas they haven't figured that out yet... :lol:

I worked for a guy that had a 5 series once, after I fixed some completely lame mechanical issues I let myself down even more by driving his "baby". It was a dog, uncomfortable, and from my perspective pretty sloppily put together.
I don't drive many imports, don't want to... If I had the scratch I'd probably buy an STS... but then again I don't have a problem holding the turn signal lever down to get 3 clicks... :lol:
I think I have a different perspective than most of you do.
I see the worst of everything....
 

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44 Posts
Great series of posts here.. I love my STS and very happy with my purchase.. I agree with inurok

the STS has fallen short in these area's

3 blink blinkers
power fold mirrors
reverse camera
better audio
HID high beams
power trunk
bigger glove box
NAv features that are functional when i need them


Things i love about my STS

More gadgets than i can learn how to use (or care too)
More power than i should have..
Luxury and looks that stand up to any import

One last point which i think is overlooked.. I'm an computer guy.. Over the past 5-7 years I have seen many American jobs go over sea’s to cheap offshore labor.. I am very sensitive to american jobs going offshore. So, I do my best to buy cars that are manufactured in American (differant than american cars). While my STS is certainly not a compromise, i get the added satisfaction of buying American and supporting our economy.
 

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STS 2008
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125 Posts
Discussion Starter #29 (Edited)
Pre-Safe (Cadillacs have seatbelt pretensioners)

Brake Assist Plus
(Cadillacs have panic brake assist)

ESP -- A stability system that works (Stabilitrak allows throttle control during activation- ESP does not)

Dynamic stability control
(Again- stabilitrak works incredibly well- they use it on Le Mans and SCCA race cars)


As far as some of the other stuff, I think you need to look at how it enhances the driving, safety or performance of the car (or if it does at all). Remote backing out of the garage? Really? Just what I need- to pay $75,000 for something that can malfunction and run over my kids. 382hp? Please- Cadillac has engines with as much as 556hp available right now, and for less than the BMW with 328hp.

The problem is simple- you, and most of the rest of the public think that GM is still behind in technology, when in fact they aren't.

A $59,000 2009 CTS-V is faster in a straight line, better handling, better braking and faster around a road course than a BMW E550. It has tons of features that the BMW lacks such as OnStar, Panic brake assist, 40gb HDD for music storage, standard XM, standard alcantara seat inserts, standard 6 piston Brembo brakes, and a 556hp Supercharged V8. A 2009 E 550 has none of those features standard, a measly 382hp engine, and has a base MSRP of $63,200.

So the Caddy is faster, more high tech, better handling, has a better resale value and is less expensive. Tell me again how that equates to "GM driving dynamics and tech" being behind ze Germans?

Tony I can see you "LOVE" GM and Cadillac and thats cool I love caddys too but I'm not sure the comparisons you are making are fair. You are comparing a CTS-V to a BMW 5 series, and a Benz E-Class that doesn't make much sense to me, the prices might be similar but so are the prices of Apples and Oranges but they are not the same. A CTS-v should be compared to a BMW M3 or a Benz C-Class AMG, now that apples to apples, at least to me. And I'm not talking about the CTS-V or STS-V, I'm talking about the base luxury cars, not the rocket ships each manufacture makes, not interested in that really.

You say caddys are faster, ook well I'm really not thinking of racing a luxury car anyway so speed and hp aren't the factors I would put in the mix. For me when it comes to a luxury car I want tech, and creature comfort features, thats just me and here are a few from the boys from Germany which caddys don't have.

Multi-level driver adjustable ride height.
Message seats.
Bolsters that automatically hold you in place while cornering.
Cooled and heated cup holders.
Driver adjustable engine horse power output.
Rear refrigerator.
4 zone climate control.
Rear reclining seats.
Heated and cooled seats ( not heated and vented )
Intelligent braking with moister and heat detection. ( look at the films I posted)
Night view assist, with pedestrian recognition.
Park assist with wheel alignment and steering assist. ( films I posted )

Tony
"Pre-Safe (Cadillacs have seatbelt pretensioners)"

-- Its doesn't adjust the seat, windows, sunroof, head rests, or seat belts.

Tony
"Brake Assist Plus (Cadillacs have panic brake assist)"

-- Its doesn't automatically break by itself, it won't come to a complete stop and start back up when tracffic starts up again.

Headlights that turn into the direction of the steering to increase visibility.

Automatic rear wheel steering to increasing the turning angle while cornering.

Internet connectivity, from in the car or to the car from your pc. ( films )

Power folding side mirrors.

Backup camera.

Driver adjustable ride height.

Driver adjustable shift sensitivity and speed.

Driver adjustable ride comfort, ( shocks ).

I dont have kids so I'd love a car that puts itself in the garage. (Just me).

HP (although I don't care, really)

STS 320 BMW 5 series 550i ~340 E-Class 550 ~380

Power trunk open and close.
I could go on but I'm getting tired.





 

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STS 2008
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125 Posts
Discussion Starter #30 (Edited)
On another note: I took the STS on a long trip this weekend and it performed like a champ the whole way there and back, except for when somehow my onstar navigation went crazy for a while and customer service couldn't locate my car or download turn by turn directions to my car, that lasted for about a day then it suddenly went a way over night. Anyway the ride was beautiful, fun, and I love the hp, everyone was impressed with the tech that it had to offer. Sooo it is a great car no doubts there and I do love its looks and performance. :worship:

Side note: This is just a discussion people, lets not get too bent out of shape over it, that is what this board is about in part isn’t it, discussing our views and opinions? We don’t all have to agree buts lets be civil, its just a discussion. :thumbsup:
 

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See you in the funny papers
04 CTS-V, 05 STS, 07 SRX- All sold :(
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26,239 Posts
Tony I can see you "LOVE" GM and Cadillac and thats cool I love caddys too but I'm not sure the comparisons you are making are far. You are comparing a CTS-V to a BMW 5 series, and a Benz E-Class that doesn't make much sense to me, the prices might be similar but so are the prices of Apples and Oranges but they are not the same. A CTS-v should be compared to a BMW M3 or a Benz C-Class AMG, now that apples to apples, at least to me. And I'm not talking about the CTS-V or STS-V, I'm talking about the base luxury cars, not the rocket ships each manufacture makes, not interested in that really.


You used horsepower several times in your examples, which is why I brought up the Vs. Price is everything when comparing cars, unless you're talking about cars so expensive that they buyer doesn't even look at it (like Ferrari or Bugatti). We aren't. The simple fact of the matter is that someone looking at spending $70,000 on a kitted out 550 could cruise into a Cadillac Dealer and get a CTS-V for the same money, so they absolutely are comparable.

For me when it comes to a luxury car I want tech, and creature comfort features, thats just me and here are a few from the boys from Germany which caddys don't have.


Let's look at those:

Multi-level driver adjustable ride height. Why? Going off road in your luxury car?

Message seats. I assume you meant massage, which Cadillac has on the DTS

Bolsters that automatically hold you in place while cornering. Cadillac had it back in 99 on the STS, and it wasn't popular.

Cooled and heated cup holders. Escalade Platinum has them

Driver adjustable engine horse power output. Every car in the world has that- it's called a throttle pedal.

Rear refrigerator. Huh?

4 zone climate control. Cadillac has 3, but I'll give you that one.
Useless, but okay.

Rear reclining seats. That would be cool on a large Cadillac, actually.

Heated and cooled seats ( not heated and vented ) No difference from the ventilated seats Cadillac already has, really. If you make them too cold, you get condensation. Nothing says "luxury" like getting out of your $100,00 import with a wet ass.

Intelligent braking with moister and heat detection. ( look at the films I posted) Features for the sake of features, in my opinion.

Night view assist, with pedestrian recognition. Cadillac had it in 2000, and it never caught on

Park assist with wheel alignment and steering assist. ( films I posted ). I don't need help parking my car, thanks.

-- Its doesn't automatically break by itself, it won't come to a complete stop and start back up when tracffic starts up again. Thank god- the last thing I need is a system that can malfunction and slam on my brakes in the middle of the road.

Headlights that turn into the direction of the steering to increase visibility. Cadillac has it on the CTS, CTS-V and XLR.

Automatic rear wheel steering to increasing the turning angle while cornering. I thought you weren't interested in performance?

Internet connectivity, from in the car or to the car from your pc. ( films ) Cadillac has it in the CTS.

Power folding side mirrors. Cadillac has it in the Escalade and DTS.

Backup camera. Cadillac has it in the Escalade, CTS Wagon, and SRX.

Driver adjustable shift sensitivity and speed. Cadillac has it in the STS, CTS, CTS-V, SRX and Escalade. Move your shift lever to the right, and it firms up the shift pressure, speed and behavior. Tap up or down for full manual control.

Driver adjustable ride comfort, ( shocks ). CTS-V has it.

I dont have kids so I'd love a car that puts itself in the garage. (Just me). And when it malfunctions, your living room. No thanks.

You'll never see all those features crammed into one car anyway- manufacturers balance what they think the demographic wants with how much they think they'll pay. GM could easily throw the hot/cold cupholders from the Escalade into the CTS, but would it be worth jacking up the price another $500-$1,000? No, because most people would rather have the the lower price than the stupid cupholder feature. The reason they aren't on your STS is because the STS is a low selling car that is about to be discontinued.

I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but you're just regurgitating a bunch of uninformed opinions from people who have convinced you that imports are better, and that GM lags in technology. Do MB or BMW have a few things Cadillac doesn't? Of course they do- just like Cadillac has a few things they don't.

Are there some things I'd like to see Cadillac do that they haven't? Of course there are- but to say that Cadillac is "sad" is a gross exaggeration.
 

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STS 2008
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125 Posts
Discussion Starter #32
Tony we don't agree, ok, I believe we'll both live. I could go through you post and attempt to refute but its not necessary, I respect your comments but we don't agree, and we don't have to, its cool.
 

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See you in the funny papers
04 CTS-V, 05 STS, 07 SRX- All sold :(
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26,239 Posts
Hey man- that's life. Not everyone again is going to agree on everything, which is what makes message boards exciting. :)
 

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Cadillac STS-V Black/Black
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700 Posts
Thetonyshow....

Its funny because BMW offers most of the options you mention on 1 car. Their flagship 7 series. Cadillac might have offered SOME of those options spread between many models but why not offer ALL of them on their top of the line flagship?
 

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See you in the funny papers
04 CTS-V, 05 STS, 07 SRX- All sold :(
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26,239 Posts
......and does Cadillac have a $100,000 sedan? No they don't. We've gone from talking about the STS (which starts at $44,000) to a car that starts at DOUBLE that.

I'm sure if Cadillac decides to offer a luxury flagship at that price point however, that they will be extremely competitive and pack all their technology into it.
 

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Cadillac STS-V Black/Black
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......and does Cadillac have a $100,000 sedan? No they don't. We've gone from talking about the STS (which starts at $44,000) to a car that starts at DOUBLE that.

I'm sure if Cadillac decides to offer a luxury flagship at that price point however, that they will be extremely competitive and pack all their technology into it.

Nope the STS-V is almost 80 grand and so is the BMW 7 series right? You can dance around the fact that the STS lags behind the competition in regards options considering its flagship status.
 

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See you in the funny papers
04 CTS-V, 05 STS, 07 SRX- All sold :(
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26,239 Posts
Even though the STS-V is discontinued, I'll argue that point with you. It runs circles around the 7 series in performance, and all of its tech is standard equipment. It is possible to get a 7 series with more equipment than an STS-V, but then you're over $100,000. Compared base to base, the STS-V has way more tech AND performance than the 7.

It's a moot point anyway since the STS-V is no longer being built. This is just another example of people comparing GM's past with BMW's present.
 

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Cadillac STS-V Black/Black
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It runs circles around the 7 series in performance, .

I am guessing you never drove a recent example of the 7 series? Its almost as quick and handles better with much less HP so...Cadillac had their sights on BMW when they created it but now you think we should not compare the 2 lol
 

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STS 2008
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125 Posts
Discussion Starter #39
Well not just BMW, the Benz S-Class is in the same price range and has the vast majority of those options standard, really, but I'm 100% against comparing an STS or STS-V to a 7 Series or an S-Class just because it's Caddy's flagship car and the prices are similar. To me there is just no comparason there period, its not even close to being fair for the Base STS or the STS-V.

Really I'm not joking, the STS-V is a high end performance version of the STS, the 7 Series and S-Class are just the flagship cars of BMW and Benz they weren't design with performance at the focal point but comfort, convinence and a showcase of new technology, the STS-V doesn't fit into that category at all, for real. Benz's equivalent to the STS-V is the S-Class 65 AMG, GAME OVER, don't even go there.
 
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