[The_Judge]

Below is Consumer Reports current (as of 12/29/11) reliability chart for the Cadillac CTS V6 RWD sedan -- redesign years are in red -- note the vast improvement beginning with the redesigned 2008 model year. However, CU notes the following: "Reliability of the V6 sedan has improved to average, the V6 coupe is well below."

View attachment 84424

 

[ctsfan2009]

Interesting graphic. I wonder why '05s were much worse than '04s when there were few changes between those two years. And how is the coupe below average and the sedan average? They are the same car mechanically.

 

[BreakingThrough]

I love it when someone says it was a great car except the whole rear end unit had to be replaced just because they did not pay for it. The CTS has the potential to be an excellent car but still earns the black dot in Consumer reports for reliability. My 2009 AWD has overall been a good car but still had recall for oil problem, returned for drive shaft hitting tunnel under load and shortly I will be returning to check out a clunk in the rear end when down shifting at low speed. At least the CTS sunroof problem was not like the recent BMW ones where some exploded.

If the problem was fixed under warranty and corrected, I honestly don't think it's all that bad. That is what a warranty is for, after all. Like many have said here, no car is perfect. And as you get into the luxury class-level features, there's a whole lot of things that can go wrong. These aren't manual trans Corollas with crank windows. I have friends and co-workers who drive the whole range of luxury cars, and none has been without problems. My friend with a 335 coupe has had his high-pressure fuel pump replaced twice, and there's still no certainty that the replacements won't continue to fail. A co-worker with an Acura TL had his entire dashboard crack out of warranty to the point where it looked like it had been sitting outside in a junkyard for 25 years. A friend's wife had an Audi A5 lemon law'ed due to constant problems. A friend's brand-new Range Rover Sport with less than 100 miles on it had an electrical malfunction where it kept the right rear brake applied as he drove the car on the freeway, so when he showed up at my house the disc was glowing white hot. Etc., etc., etc.

To me a "great car" is one that I truly love. Meaning I love driving it, I love the looks, and I just have a strong emotional attachment to the car. If I have a couple of relatively minor warranty-covered problems and they are corrected by the dealer and I'm provided a loaner and experience minimal inconvenience overall, that does not make it any less of a great car in my eyes. There are many reliable cars/appliances that are reliable, but not great. It depends on your priorities. Complicated luxury machines with tons of electronics and options are not a good choice for those looking for a car that will never experience a problem.

 

[The_Judge]

If the problem was fixed under warranty and corrected, I honestly don't think it's all that bad. That is what a warranty is for, after all. Like many have said here, no car is perfect. And as you get into the luxury class-level features, there's a whole lot of things that can go wrong. These aren't manual trans Corollas with crank windows. I have friends and co-workers who drive the whole range of luxury cars, and none has been without problems. My friend with a 335 coupe has had his high-pressure fuel pump replaced twice, and there's still no certainty that the replacements won't continue to fail. A co-worker with an Acura TL had his entire dashboard crack out of warranty to the point where it looked like it had been sitting outside in a junkyard for 25 years. A friend's wife had an Audi A5 lemon law'ed due to constant problems. A friend's brand-new Range Rover Sport with less than 100 miles on it had an electrical malfunction where it kept the right rear brake applied as he drove the car on the freeway, so when he showed up at my house the disc was glowing white hot. Etc., etc., etc.

To me a "great car" is one that I truly love. Meaning I love driving it, I love the looks, and I just have a strong emotional attachment to the car. If I have a couple of relatively minor warranty-covered problems and they are corrected by the dealer and I'm provided a loaner and experience minimal inconvenience overall, that does not make it any less of a great car in my eyes. There are many reliable cars/appliances that are reliable, but not great. It depends on your priorities. Complicated luxury machines with tons of electronics and options are not a good choice for those looking for a car that will never experience a problem.

Very well put.

 

[GT!]

Yes, i agree with the above also. Another thing to keep in mind when looking at reliability reports to compare cars is to really look at what they are measuring and what the difference is to the average consumer. For example, it may be that the average for a new car in the luxury segment is 2 repair issues per year, so even if the CTS is 50% worse (and I don't think this is the case) you are only taliking about one extra repair per year compared to average (based on my numbers ... not sure if they are way off, but doubt it). Is this a big deal to the individual, and reason to NOT buy a car they like? I think that in general cars have become very reliable and the number of repairs is very low, but there are problem cars from all manufacturers.

-GT

 

[928S]

I love it when someone says it was a great car except the whole rear end unit had to be replaced just because they did not pay for it...

I’m with JackB on this one. And I’ll add that I love it when people praise GM/Cadillac by citing alleged problems that third parties allegedly experienced with virtually every other nameplate that comes to mind. That’s exactly the kind of thinking (mediocrity) that, with help from the UAW, sank GM in the first place.

An automaker’s first challenge is to detect and prevent problems before they reach the customer’s hands. Warranty repairs are a necessary second, and a poor excuse for failing the first.

Assuming the requisite styling and performance, give me a well-sorted-out car without major/multiple problems and you've got a loyal customer. On the other hand, give me a car of lesser quality/reliability and after-the-fact warranty repairs (whoopee!) and I'm shopping the competition.

 

[BreakingThrough]

I’m with JackB on this one. And I’ll add that I love it when people praise GM/Cadillac by citing alleged problems that third parties allegedly experienced with virtually every other nameplate that comes to mind. That’s exactly the kind of thinking (mediocrity) that, with help from the UAW, sank GM in the first place.

An automaker’s first challenge is to detect and prevent problems before they reach the customer’s hands. Warranty repairs are a necessary second, and a poor excuse for failing the first.

Assuming the requisite styling and performance, give me a well-sorted-out car without major/multiple problems and you've got a loyal customer. On the other hand, give me a car of lesser quality/reliability and after-the-fact warranty repairs (whoopee!) and I'm shopping the competition.

It's hardly mediocre thinking -- it's reality. My list of problems my friends have experienced was hardly to praise GM, it was to illustrate that virtually all luxury makes and models are susceptible to problems due the fact that by nature they are very complicated machines.

Your Lexus dealer will be happy to sell you beige ES350s for the rest of your life, sounds like that's what you're looking for.

 

[Musicman]

80,000 miles and four years on my 08 CTS and the car still drives great. The only problem has been the deer I hit four weeks ago. The car turned out OK.

 

[928S]

Your Lexus dealer will be happy to sell you beige ES350s for the rest of your life, sounds like that's what you're looking for.

lol...make mine black with beige interior...hmm...Lexus ES350, well, maybe not after 20 years in Porsche and last 4 years in CTS.

You might be GM’s ideal customer. My criteria for what makes a "great car" is certainly higher than yours. Higher than GM’s too, if my CTS and the one referenced above in JackB’s post are any indication.

On a positive note, GM does seem to be improving its quality and reliability, even if somewhat erratically, so let's hope it continues.

 

[The_Judge]

Interesting graphic. I wonder why '05s were much worse than '04s when there were few changes between those two years. And how is the coupe below average and the sedan average? They are the same car mechanically.

Welcome to the wild and wonderful world of statistics. CU surveys a huge number of car owners -- 1.3 million for the current charts -- but it doesn't say how many of those own any particular make, model, or year. They do exclude those cars for which they don't have sufficient data to make statistically valid conclusions. And the surveys are completed by persons who may or may not know what they're talking about or who may be very fussy or very tolerant of minor problems. It all balances out IF there are enough responses, which CU apparently thinks it has. In any case, it's a reasonably valid means of comparing one car with another. Of course, it's also no guarantee that a given vehicle will be free of problems or suffer more than average.

As for the coupe vs. the sedan, CU did not elaborate, but I have to assume that their statement was supported by the stats. Perhaps the coupe's additional problems are because the cars are coming off a different line or from a different factory or something, or maybe they're all related to the new body design. Could be a lot of things.

 

[RippyPartsDept]

level of service when you do have a problem with the car is also very important

to paraphrase an old adage ... "it's not that you fell down, it's how you get back up"

all cars can/will have problems but how you're taken care of when you are one of the unfortunate owners who has to visit the dealer is what's really important

GM (and Cadillac specifically) have really started to step up in this area and while experiences can widely vary from dealership to dealership Cadillac is really trying hard to get those sub-standard dealers to 'step up their game' - and i think it's working

 

[The_Judge]

...Your Lexus dealer will be happy to sell you beige ES350s for the rest of your life, sounds like that's what you're looking for.

No thanks. I find the snotty Lexus ads to be so off-putting that I can't even bring myself to walk into one of their showrooms. I'd drive a Yugo before buying a Lexus!

 

[MoFex]

.............GM (and Cadillac specifically) have really started to step up in this area and while experiences can widely vary from dealership to dealership Cadillac is really trying hard to get those sub-standard dealers to 'step up their game' - and i think it's working

I concur with this one. My experience with the dealership and GM Customer Service has so far been very good. Now what Cadillac needs to do is to improve quality and reliability. This is based on my 08 model. It seems though that the later year models have improved quite a bit.....

 

[RippyPartsDept]

Yea I drove a rental 2010 CTS with ultraview roof from Raleigh to Wilmington on tuesday night ... and was really happy with how quiet the roof was

there was a bit of wind noise from one of the passenger side doors (probably needs a new weatherstrip) but it wasn't that bad

 

[ctsfan2009]

>>>My experience with the dealership and GM Customer Service has so far been very good. Now what Cadillac needs to do is to improve quality and reliability. This is based on my 08 model. It seems though that the later year models have improved quite a bit..... <<<

I agree with you 100%. As I've posted previously, I was a bit disappointed with my first service visit last fall. When I had the car in several weeks ago for the steering issue and the radio not functioning properly, things went much more smoothly. While the radio did not get fixed properly on this visit, I did get a call from Cadilac customer satisfaction asking about my experience. I relayed both my satisfaction with the steering gear replacement but also that the radio was still not fixed. IIRC, it was a Saturday they called me and on Monday morning, I had a call from my service advisor to set up an appointment to resolve the issue. It turned out to be a simple configuration which had not been done and it got fixed promptly. I too think they are trying to improve the customer service experience at GM as well as the quality of their products. I'm hoping that with all of the changes that went on mid 2009(new GM) that we are seeing higher quality components. I have said for years that GM has some of the best designed and engineered cars on the roads, especially their higher end models. What kills them is the poor quality from their suppliers. Based on what I've seen here with the drop in problems owners of '10 and later models are reporting, here's hoping that something truly good is coming from the whole bankrupcy/new GM mess. I've always liked Cadillacs, even in their floaty and FWD years and have wanted to see the brand re-emerge as world leader as I'm too young to remember when the brand was considered that before. Their current line-up and future products point to that if they can keep the quality gremlins at bay. Yes, these cars are packed with technology, but so is just about any other car out there.

 

[MotownPimp]

I disagree with those above who seem to say you have to choose between a car that is solid & reliable and one that is fun to drive. My Nissan 350 Z was both. A driver's car but never had a problem of any kind with it. I hope the Coupe does as well....or at least close.

I'm a supporter of CR; I don't buy anything costing over a buck without consulting CR. With that said, its take on the Z is usually negative & the opposite of my experience.

For those of you hating on the Lexus, you really need to go drive one. Our RX350 SUV (1st Lexus for us) is as fine a vehicle as I've every driven. Comfortable, solid, lots of "go" for an SUV. Would it replace my Z or Coupe as a driver's car? Not a chance. But when ever we need more room, etc & get in the Lexus, I always think, "Damn this is a fine machine".

 

[The_Judge]

I disagree with those above who seem to say you have to choose between a car that is solid & reliable and one that is fun to drive. My Nissan 350 Z was both. A driver's car but never had a problem of any kind with it. I hope the Coupe does as well....or at least close.

I'm a supporter of CR; I don't buy anything costing over a buck without consulting CR. With that said, its take on the Z is usually negative & the opposite of my experience.

For those of you hating on the Lexus, you really need to go drive one. Our RX350 SUV (1st Lexus for us) is as fine a vehicle as I've every driven. Comfortable, solid, lots of "go" for an SUV. Would it replace my Z or Coupe as a driver's car? Not a chance. But when ever we need more room, etc & get in the Lexus, I always think, "Damn this is a fine machine".

Well, yeah -- so was my 1971 BMW 2002. But by comparison to the 2008 - 2012 CTS, it was a troglodyte -- carburetor (I learned early on how to clean the needle valve, which was always clogging up), no electronics to speak of (after-market AC and radio), manual 4-speed, crank windows (which broke quite often), 13" wheels with manual disc brakes, an outrageous 121HP from a dual overhead cam 4-banger, etc. etc. Rebuilt the engine twice, the tranny once, and drove it for 14 years. My favorite car of all time! Not sure my ass would fit in the seat these days. ;-)

 

[SteveE9C6]

Bought a 2011 AWD CTS Premium yesterday. Nothings fallen off yet! Traded in my 2006 BMW 530i that had become painfully expensive once out of CPO warranty.
My wife hated the BMW ride.... She really likes the CTS. Since I got this certified used with the warranty out to 100k, I will see how this turns out. I like the car just fine.

 

[smooth_ride]

Reliability is not very good in my opinion. I had just got back from Europe and went to turn off the ignition and take the key out. It would not come out. I was ready to go to sleep, but had to stay awake for a tech to come out and turn it off. He then showed me how to turn it back on to get to a dealer. OnStar saved me in that case, but should I really have to pay for a backup plan?

I have a laundry list of problems that just never seem to get fixed.

I just finished looking at edmunds.com Tech Bulletins. There's quite a few there.

 

[928S]

...Yes, these cars [GM/Cadillac/CTS] are packed with technology, but so is just about any other car out there.

Good point.

Also most of the multiple problems experienced by CTS owners are the basic things, not complicated high-tech stuff. GM has designed and built cars for 100+ years, and yet it sometimes seems as if 2nd gen (2008) CTS was GM’s first.