Cadillac Owners Forum banner

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
CTS 2006 2.8 V6
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hello there, my name is Naiyu and I got a huge problem with my car that even my mechanic had a headache with.

The story is that I made a road trip from Miami to Seattle, or I was planning to, I made sure my car had everything OK, new oil, new tires, new everything, computer checked and everything. The route was Miami-Lafayette-Texas-Oklahoma-Colorado-Lake City-Boise-Seattle. When I was at the middle of nowhere by La Mar, CO out of nothing my car started to emit white smoke by the driver side, after a kind of explosion-like sound and I discovered that somehow I ran out of oil. I got my oil change in Miami, everything was OK, it never over-heated and my boyfriend checked the oil when we were by Texas and everything was just fine. It's obvious to say that the oil zone of the car was super hot, I got it shipped to my destination anyways, I didnt get it checked because I was on a hurry and today I got it checked by one of the best mechanics I could have got.

He told me there was a 50% percent chance that the engine was totally bad. He told me that there was something wrong with it, but more like something was missing, and he told me that he couldnt find the oil filter. The oil was fine, just that really really low, and there was not oil spots anywhere around the oil area at all. He was going to do some research about it and we are going to put some more oil to start it (back there in Colorado, the car turned on perfectly but when I did step on the gas I got a sound that I could describe like there was a loose something kicking the metal, like a strong "plack plack plack") to hear if there were blown pistons or disks. People back in Colorado told me that there was 95% that my engine was totally gone but now he told me that that "plack" could be just because there's no oil (I saw like 3-4cm on the dipstick) and it's supposed to sound like that but doesn't mean necessarily anything. What he thinks it could happen is that somehow -somehow- the person who changed the oil back in Miami didnt adjust the oil filter well enough and it slowly started to fall down.

Now, I've been talking to my dad who has experience too with cars, and he told me that: the only way to be 100% sure that my engine is blown up is if I see metal particles, medium ones for pistons, ash like for disks. He told me that there is no way to meet an unfixable engine if there are not particles and the oil looks good (supposing that everything happening because of the oil loss, what is I think the most obvious thing), and my oil looked good for the mechanic and I didnt see any kind of particles.

I'm writing to you guys because I need a lot of opinions of what could have happened or what should I look to. I have to understand that mechanics will always want to get extra money if they can, and I'm just 18 years old, and a girl (I know nothing and they can take me by an idiot). The mechanic was pretty confused because he couldnt see anything else, apart from white ashes on the top part of the engine, which was originated by the tons of smoke it produced in CO. Now, if the cadillac turns on normally with the oil means that everything is fixable, if the cadillac still gets its plack plack sound like should be because the pistons expanded, or could be damaged disks.

Any spontaneous ideas? Thanks in advance.
 

·
Registered
07' CTS-V | 07' Lux 3.6 Volant-Borla-Vsways | 08' CTS 3.6 DI Performance
Joined
·
969 Posts
Hello there, my name is Naiyu and I got a huge problem with my car that even my mechanic had a headache with.

The story is that I made a road trip from Miami to Seattle, or I was planning to, I made sure my car had everything OK, new oil, new tires, new everything, computer checked and everything.
The route was Miami-Lafayette-Texas-Oklahoma-Colorado-Lake City-Boise-Seattle. When I was at the middle of nowhere by La Mar, CO out of nothing my car started to emit white smoke
by the driver side, after a kind of explosion-like sound and I discovered that somehow I ran out of oil. I got my oil change in Miami, everything was OK, it never over-heated and my boyfriend
checked the oil when we were by Texas and everything was just fine. It's obvious to say that the oil zone of the car was super hot, I got it shipped to my destination anyways,
I didnt get it checked because I was on a hurry and today I got it checked by one of the best mechanics I could have got.

He told me there was a 50% percent chance that the engine was totally bad. He told me that there was something wrong with it, but more like something was missing, and he told me that
he couldnt find the oil filter.
Aha...so this mechanic couldn't even find where the oil filter was located....I guess we can forgo any of his diagnosis....so he changed the oil but kept the old filter in?
The oil was fine, just that really really low, and there was not oil spots anywhere around the oil area at all. He was going to do some research about it and we
are going to put some more oil to start it (back there in Colorado, the car turned on perfectly but when I did step on the gas I got a sound that I could describe like there was a loose something
kicking the metal, like a strong "plack plack plack") to hear if there were blown pistons or disks. People back in Colorado told me that there was 95% that my engine was totally gone but now he told
me that that "plack" could be just because there's no oil (I saw like 3-4cm on the dipstick) and it's supposed to sound like that but doesn't mean necessarily anything. What he thinks it could happen
is that somehow -somehow- the person who changed the oil back in Miami didnt adjust the oil filter well enough and it slowly started to fall down.
I don't know about that opinion. If the car drove from Miami and you got as far as Texas and you still were at the proper level my gutt tells me he did a good job with it. The oil filter cover is located just to the right of the oil filler cap. It has a big 21mm hex nut shape at the top of the dome. It requires almost 18 lb.ft / 25 N.m
of torque to tighten it properly, unless it got tightened by a girl's fingertips I'm gonna guess it got at least the 18 lb.ft it needed to not leak. Plus that area would be reaking of oil if that's where all the oil went.
Now, I've been talking to my dad who has experience too with cars, and he told me that: the only way to be 100% sure that my engine is blown up is if I see metal particles, medium ones for pistons,

ash like for disks. He told me that there is no way to meet an unfixable engine if there are not particles and the oil looks good (supposing that everything happening because of the oil loss, what is I think
the most obvious thing), and my oil looked good for the mechanic and I didnt see any kind of particles.
I don't agree there. If the engine burnt through enough oil and it spun a single rod bearing this doesn't necessitate so many metal shavings that it would be visible to a blind man.
I'm writing to you guys because I need a lot of opinions of what could have happened or what should I look to. I have to understand that mechanics will always want to get extra money if they can, and I'm just 18 years old, and a girl (I know nothing and they can take me by an idiot). The mechanic was pretty confused because he couldnt see anything else, apart from white ashes on the top part of the engine, which was originated by the tons of smoke it produced in CO. Now, if the cadillac turns on normally with the oil means that everything is fixable, if the cadillac still gets its plack plack sound like should be because the pistons expanded, or could be damaged disks.

Any spontaneous ideas? Thanks in advance.
OK here's my theory, at some point in between Texas and Colorado the engine started burning oil. How?

This CTS end up burning oil through a few ways:

- Gummed or worn piston rings let oil pass through the combustion chamber and burn.
- Bad valve stem seals, same thing let oil pass through the combustion chamber and burn.
- Problem with the PCV system, causing oil to be sucked from the valve covers and into the intake and down to the combustion chamber.

Any of these could have been the main cause of oil burning. Typically a CTS which burns oil doesn't emit a noticeable smoke (when it's not too low on oil at least) when it's warmed up and cruising or being flogged down the highway.
My CTS has been burning 1qt / 1000 miles since it got to 30K miles (it now has 114K miles) and in 7 years+ of ownership I have yet to see it smoke once.

The CTS has two catalytic converters which tend to mask this problem well.

My suggestion is easy things first. Have a good mechanic (not one that can't find the filter) remove the PCV orifice (no valve on the CTS) and give it a good thorough cleaning
inside and out, have him check if it's clogged to begin with before cleaning it this might highlight the root cause for your oil burning adventure. Monitor your oil levels religiously
with this car at minimum I check my oil level every 200 to 250 miles (it would be a quarter of a quart low at that point for me) and top off as necessary only with a reputable full synthetic 5w-30 that is Dexos 1 certified like Mobil 1, Castrol Edge...etc.

As for the other problems, for some people cleaning the PCV system, taking the engine apart, honing the cylinders if an engine expert deems necessary, installing new piston rings on every piston and new valve stem seals has cured the oil burning problem.
For some the problem even with these fixes has returned unkown if those specific jobs were done right or if the design is flawed anyways with this engine..

As much as I like the 1st gen (quiet a bit) I say this is most definitely not a woman's car. I would never let my sister or wife own a first gen CTS. I babied the heck out of the car when new and always Mobil 1 5W-30 oil change every 5000 miles and I didn't drive it like a grandma,
I let that engine rev high occasionally to keep things good and clean inside (like I did with all my previous cars which all achieved near 200K miles without engine problems) kept all fluids at proper level and did everything the manual asked for and still at 30K miles the car ended up burning oil.

I think you are much better off with a 2009+ CTS those at least have not exhibited any noteworthy oil burning as far as this forum knows.
 

·
Registered
CTS 2006 2.8 V6
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Hello, thanks for the response. I checked a lot of things in the car just 20 minutes before, I also took a lot of pictures so if you need pics of stuff just tell me and I'll upload them.

1. There was an oil filter. The mechanic had no idea what he was doing.
2. Then I took out the oil stick, there was barely oil on them, yesterday there was a lot of left over oil but looks like he took all the leftovers. On the super super little oil I saw, there was super super extremely fine aluminum like metals, but way too little. No more than 5 sparkling things like dust. Of course, it was leaking oil when it blew up, not too much but some, I think that was the leftover.

3. Checked exhaust, no stingy anything, just black dust.

So, my dad thinks that it could be rings or pistons. I'm starting the car tomorrow or friday with oil on it, I'm going to check what falls down from the oil change, hope theres nothing but ashes and not medium metals.
Theres 80% chance that I anyways get my whole engine inspected.
What's the average pricing for ring and all what implies change? My dad told me that you can't change the rings alone, you have to change a lot of stuff.
 

·
Registered
07' CTS-V | 07' Lux 3.6 Volant-Borla-Vsways | 08' CTS 3.6 DI Performance
Joined
·
969 Posts
On your dipstick if oil is at the 3rd hole that means it's at the proper level, at or below the 1st hole means that at minimum it's 1 quart low.

That oil isn't clean and your filter is probably saturated with shavings. Get a 5w-30 synthetic dexos 1 oil and filter change.

Then start the engine and rev it up slowly from 1000 to 4000 RPM if anywhere in the rev range you hear any abnormal sounds of whatsover you shut off the engine.

If the engine sounds normal in the step above, take it for drive around the neighborhood, if it seems fine with no abnormal noises exhibited, take it to the street and try to get it up the rev range and listen to noises.

If no noises are heard or vibrations from the engine are felt, you might be in luck and the wear wasn't enough to kill the engine but low chance that happened. Best case scenario your car will burn oil over time.

As for a ring job, don't hold you're breath you are looking at 3 to 5K depending on the damage....

I hate to be bearer of bad news but your best bet if the damage is signifcant is to get a remanned engine with a solid warranty installed in it's place otherwise you are looking at selling your car at a significant markdown.
 

·
Registered
CTS 2006 2.8 V6
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Hello, thanks again.
There was barely oil on the dipstick, and when I say barely is that I couldn't get significant samples at all, just 2 drops on a tissue. The car has been sitting for like 5 months, and dripping oil, that's why I couldnt get samples.
All this time I kept in mind that my engine was simply gone and I was looking for a used engine and a solid warranty, as you said, to get it replaced, what I don't know is pricing. Ive checked engines a little and they're 2500-3400$ but I don't know whats a decent price for an engine replacement.
The mechanic told me that my car is worth (with a gone engine) between 3-4 grand. Opinions?

This is so sad :crybaby:, hope I get luck tomorrow, everything happened all of a sudden. If an engine repair goes between 3000-3500 with a shop warranty, I'll fix it in a future. Glad I'm not in a hurry for that.

----------

Oh, and another thing. I took out the battery and it might be discharged. I got a 4runner 1999 battery though, is it good idea to start it with that battery if its discharged?
 

·
Registered
07' CTS-V | 07' Lux 3.6 Volant-Borla-Vsways | 08' CTS 3.6 DI Performance
Joined
·
969 Posts
Where is it leaking oil from and how much approximately is it leaking?

BTW engine replacement labor should come in under 14 labor hours that's very fair.

So if a shop charges ~$80 / hour x 14 = 1,120 + an oil and filter change obviously

A re-manufactured 3.6L is under $3,500 with a 1 year / 12,000 miles warranty. ~$4,400 with a 3 year unlimited mileage warranty

The 2.8L should be same cost but if you are going to pay anyways then why not upgrade to a 3.6L? Everything else is the same just the computer probably needs to be re flashed to 3.6L software.

Heck while it's being repaired anyways if you swap the trans with a re-manufactured unit you'll end up with a Cadillac with like brand new power-train for a couple grands more?

Worth contemplating especially if the re-manufacturing confirms that the engine will not burn oil more than GM specs it to (1 quart per 2000 miles is the max acceptable limit) then great, ask them if they will.

And as a benefit you'll end up with a CTS with the 3.6L which is more power and same fuel economy (according to the EPA 2.8L and the 3.6L get the same miles per gallon)
 

·
Registered
CTS 2006 2.8 V6
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
I can't see right now where it is any oil leaking because its parked on grass, but in Colorado I saw like 20-25 drops from the middle-bottom part of the car. Now is dry, or I can't tell, theres too much grass under it

Theres a 2.8 2006 with 5 year warranty right now online for like 2 grand, I've been checking 2009 engines but I don't know if they're compatible. For a grand more would make a lot of sense. How expensive is re-flashing?
The car now has a good transmission, Id say great, is it necessary to swap transmission too?

And I though that maybe a could get some money selling the bad engine if its bad, theres a lot of stuff good there still.

So is it worthy a engine swap after all? I know me, I adore cadillacs, and in a future I'll end up with a cadillac anyways. I got mine for 3700$ in Miami (yeah, a deal), changed brakes and a couple things here and there because had original everything, cars in WA duplicate their pricing, and Id spend around 4-5 grand anyways to get a "good car". Now my mom gave me her 4runner to drive a while until I can get another car, which is saving around 3-5 grand. Thats why I still want to swap engines.

----------

And, of course, I got this trauma that I need to know what Im driving and typical car model issues, so I'll start learning about how things work in a car so in a future I can get out of the "women know nothing" category.
 

·
Registered
07' CTS-V | 07' Lux 3.6 Volant-Borla-Vsways | 08' CTS 3.6 DI Performance
Joined
·
969 Posts
2009 are not compatible (unless it's the non direct-injected which is the same LY7 engine as the 3.6L in the 2004-2007) some 2009 CTSs are AWD with the 3.6L which have a different oil pan which will require swapping the oil pan from you're wrecked engine.
Just get the right MY engine from a reputable re-manufacturing house.
BTW the old engine will be needed to swap it with the new engine to avoid a core charge (for this engine it's ~$500 for the core charge).
They take the bad engine re-manufacture it to spec and turn around and sell it to the next customer.

Flashing the ECM should cost around $100 at the dealer and you'll need to buy the 3.6L fuel injectors since those are different than the 2.8L injectors that's basically the difference in between the 2.8L and the 3.6L besides the obvious bore difference.
 

·
Registered
CTS 2006 2.8 V6
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
What is AWD and MY?
If you meant upgrading from 2.8 to 3.6 of the same year, for which good reasons would I do that?
How can I tell which is a reputable re-manufacturing house?

----------

By core you mean block?
 

·
Registered
2007 6 speed manual tarnished platinum
Joined
·
374 Posts
Awd=all wheel drive. MY=model year. Core is a your bad part,in this case the motor, that they will rebuild to sell later. They make you pay an extra amount that is refundable upon the receipt of you old motor, hence core charge. I agree stick with the same model year if going used, I know there was a change in the timing chain set up in 2007, it can be done but there are a lot of parts that need swapped. The can phasers and position sensors have to be changed to go with a 07 up lp1 or ly7.
 

·
Registered
07' CTS-V | 07' Lux 3.6 Volant-Borla-Vsways | 08' CTS 3.6 DI Performance
Joined
·
969 Posts
What is AWD and MY?
If you meant upgrading from 2.8 to 3.6 of the same year, for which good reasons would I do that?
How can I tell which is a reputable re-manufacturing house?

----------

By core you mean block?
Engine core pretty much means sending your old engine in the same way you got your new one.
Usually it's full engine without intake manifold and belt driven accessories don't know if that includes things like injectors and what not.
But usually whatever it doesn't come with your mechanic installs from your old engine (obviously for example 2.8L injectors are not a good idea on the 3.6L)

As far as which re-manufacturers are reputable, you'll have to do some research and ask around for personal experiences by customers and mechanics.

Usually mechanics have certain places they like dealing with so that's a starting point and then you can compare prices with what you get quoted online...etc
 

·
Registered
CTS 2006 2.8 V6
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Thanks for you both again. I've seen engines at carmonkeys.com, is it reputable or good source of comparison?'
I'll stick to the same engine then. I'm turning on the car in some hours, I'll come back with news
 

·
Registered
07' CTS-V | 07' Lux 3.6 Volant-Borla-Vsways | 08' CTS 3.6 DI Performance
Joined
·
969 Posts

·
Registered
2006 CTS
Joined
·
110 Posts
The engine that you get from GMC is a short block (no heads). I found out when I ordered one, and they charged a restocking fee. The online catalog is not very helpful in this instance.
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top