Cadillac Owners Forum banner

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
78 SDV
Joined
·
383 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
575674
575675



Some interesting things to note is the use of 10w30 Quaker State oil, 2k change intervals, and highest octane fuel that can be found. (I thought high octane would just lead to carbon build up?)
These machines are legends and simply are not appreciated as they should be. The last time I posted this here the people from the other sections just had to chime in and disrupt things. This time I will not tolerate it at all. Keep the N* talk in the other section: You've been warned!

What I would like to hear are more reports of high mileage big blocks and reports of consistent reliability.
I am firmly of the opinion these big block 1970s cadillacs are the finest cars ever built.
 

·
Registered
95 FWB 81SDV 96 FWB 94 Fleetwood
Joined
·
1,441 Posts
Something does not sound right. Not saying that he did not drive it over 500K miles, but the odometer only goes to 99,999 then turns over to all zeros. So you have to believe someone here.
 

·
Registered
78 SDV
Joined
·
383 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
You're right there may be a bit more to the story than the newspaper reported. But we do know it is an official Guinness record and I would imagine they did do some verification, service receipts, engine number id etc I mean it's their job to verify these things so it would be safe to assume they did.

Nothing really seems fishy to me here. You have a guy treating this exceptionally well built car right with 2k oil changes, highway miles, not revving the engine by speeding etc and by doing so he hit a record.
 

·
Registered
78 SDV
Joined
·
383 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
It says the most "authenticated" miles - for whatever that is worth. Also, I don't think this guy was an average driver at all. 2k oil changes, never went over 65, all highway miles etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
224 Posts
It's debatable which Cadillac designed V8 engine was a small block.
In 76-77 GM released a few engines with major redesigns.

76 Chevy 305
77 Buick 231 even fire V6, later to go with metric name 3.8L in 1978
77 Olds 403
77 Pontiac 400 (2nd release)
77 Cadillac 425

It was an across the board reduction in cubic inches & weight for CAFE fuel econimy standards & emmisions.

The 425 was a smaller bore & same stroke as the earlier 472, & a smaller bore & stroke of a 500
But 100 lbs lighter then the 472
In 80 the 425 was downsized again to 368
84 was the last year for the 368

Some call the 472 / 500 the big blocks & 425 / 368 small blocks.
Others would call all these big blocks, more based on the cubic inch size.
In general they're just Cady V8's.

For performance many didn't like building the late 70's GM engines as much.
Because the blocks are lightened & weaker.
Stock they also had less HP so the engines didn't need to be as strong.

It was a great car & durable engine in the article.
Think an earlier say 1970 could have done the same or better.

At 1 time up till the mid 80's people with money had a Lincoln or Cadillac.
By 1990 the bone yards were packed with these luxury cars.
Many of them with no body damage, good paint, & a great interior.

Most people probibly scrapped them when the lack of maintence started to catch up & they needed a bit of everything. Only to be replaced with a lot of 80's junk. That was the decline of the big 3.

The reconition should go to people that maintain & keep their car.
But many would rather buy a new car every 2 years reguardless how much of a POS it is.
 

·
Registered
1980 FBC
Joined
·
969 Posts
As mentioned in the engines section of this site, big block verses small block have no hard and fast rules which hold across brands..

Some internet x-perts use certain criteria.

Bore size, displacement, weight, bell housing, dry verses coolant flow in the intake manifold and probably others.

Some brands like Chrysler used different bell housings on so-called big verses small blocks.

Same with Ford but they liked to change things. The 351M engine was actually a destroked 400 but still used the big block bellhousing.So much for using displacement and bell housings.

The Ford 302 has a 4" bore. So much for using bore. No way the 302 is a big block.

Olds 403 shares design with so-called small blocks but displaces 403 C.I.

Just to make it completely impossible for internet x-perts, Chevrolet called the 396 a 400 in 1970 - '73 or so and sometimes topped it with a 2 barrel carbonator. IIRC it may have had a larger bore than the 396. They still sold a small block 400 with a clodrajet!

Pontiac 455 and others had intake manifolds with coolant flow but the coolant flow doesn't appear to be involved with fuel charge temperature control at all.

Add modern thin wall castings to the mix and it looks like we should just play the brand-specific type terminology. Of course Cadillac would need to be considered separate from other brands instead of simply adopting rules from another brand.

I've not written an article for an automotive magazine as of yet so I might be considered fallible. Anyone writing in one of those mags with all the colorful pictures is certainly and universally considered to be a complete and perfectly accurate resource for technical information. [/sarcasm off]

That said, my personal opinion as to whether a Cadillac 472/500 is a big or small block is based on it's design heritage.
These engines are a more modern copy of the Chrysler "big block" engines. Specifically the 361/383/400/413/440 versions.

They share a dry intake manifold with the Cadillac version of the valley pan stuck to the bottom of the intake instead of separate like Chrysler.

External oil pump, front mounted distributors on both.

Since the 368 and 425 have no basic design changes other than displacement, cam profiles and port sized, I would consider them big blocks also.

The above and a couple dollars will get me a cup of coffee.
 

·
Registered
78 SDV
Joined
·
383 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
"That said, my personal opinion as to whether a Cadillac 472/500 is a big or small block is based on it's design heritage.
These engines are a more modern copy of the Chrysler "big block" engines. Specifically the 361/383/400/413/440 versions."

I am in agreement, I didn't even think anyone would ever consider them a small block and the Chrysler connection is very interesting.

Also whether or not anyone believes the record is their own judgement call, but I am sure that everyone here understands that the 425/400 combo was excellent with graceful aging and very serviceable. They have provided owners with decades of reliable service, I don't know if they will ever build cars like that again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
224 Posts
For Olds the deciding factor was the intake.
The BB 400 early & late, 425, & 455 had taller decks which required a wider intake manifold.
The SB 260, 307, 330, 350, & 403 had a shorter stroke, lower deck, & narrower intake.
Accesory brackets completly different because the mounting points on the heads are higher.
The 403 was an attempt to replace a BB 455 with an engine lighter & smaller cubes.
It actually had widowed / hollowed webbing for the mains to save weight.
Having a bolck not as tall or wide also saves weight.
Like the Cady 425 the Olds 403 only made 77-79 before another downsize due to fuel shortages & Jimmy Carter.

Chevy SB & BB are 2 distinct engine families.
The BB was produced as small as a 348.

I would guess the deciding factor was based on aftermarket parts.
Old magizeen full page parts ads would list a manifold like
Torker:
SB Chevy $79
BB Chevy $99
SB Olds $140
BB Olds $145
SB Ford $85

Never was in the older Cady V8 performance so I don't remember how they were listed.
 

·
Registered
'72 Eldorado Convertible, '97 Eldorado ETC, '93 Fleetwood
Joined
·
993 Posts
So you have to believe someone here.
The service records, apparently, which rolled over to low mileage every few years.

and as for blocks . . . I had a '72 Impala 400 in college (a $400 car . . .). the engines included a small block 400 with a two barrel, and a large block 402 with a four barrel. Both got 400 on the side . . . I had the small block, and actually got 16mpg at a steady 60 from San Jose to San Diego . . .
 

·
Registered
70 Deville 78 Seville 92 Deville 03 Deville
Joined
·
716 Posts
My state records the mileage every time the car is registered. That would document mileage over a 30+ year span. I assume other states do the same thing. I have no idea what the useless trivia has to do with the original post.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
224 Posts
My state records the mileage every time the car is registered. That would document mileage over a 30+ year span. I assume other states do the same thing. I have no idea what the useless trivia has to do with the original post.
Useless trivia. LOL
The entire post is a trivia discussion.
The Guiness Book is trivial facts, right.

TY for the information reguarding registering a car in your state, which ever one it is.
It was very informitive & too the point.
 

·
Registered
'72 Eldorado Convertible, '97 Eldorado ETC, '93 Fleetwood
Joined
·
993 Posts
My state records the mileage every time the car is registered. That would document mileage over a 30+ year span. I assume other states do the same thing.
Nevada only started this year. I expert that there are other small states that still don't.
 

·
Registered
91 Brougham 5.7
Joined
·
56 Posts
Alabamastan does not record mileage. I kind of wish we did though. Had to replace my digital dash cluster years ago, and can't remember how many extra miles it had on it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
224 Posts
Many states back then never verified miles.
Except when the car was sold. Then it was what was written on the title.
It was between the buyer & seller to figure it out.

The NV, IL, TX only started documenting the miles when the implamented emission or TX safety testing.

KY where the record holder lives only smog tested in 3 counties starting in 1999 and ending in 2005.

The other exception is vehicles with an out of state title needs to be inspected for theft in at least KY & NV before registering.

The states had one exception box on title transfers "Milage exceeds mechanical limits".
NV also adds box "not required of over X years old".
Another box is - "Not actual miles".
Sometimes the sellar never writes the miles on the title.
In the DMV they check the defult box on the title not required if possible.
To expidite the paperwork faster & to avoid a mistake writing on the title.

With the advent of cheaper & more advanced computers it bacame more feasable to track more data.
Remember back in the 1900's when computers left the 19 off the year because it took too many memory & tape drive bits. Early 80's was still a time of mainframe computers, microfiche, typewriters, pen, & paper. State of KY was probibly years behind cutting edge.
 

·
Registered
'72 Eldorado Convertible, '97 Eldorado ETC, '93 Fleetwood
Joined
·
993 Posts
and some of the NV DMV employees actually understand the rules. 😡. And the classic plates rules.

Others, however, are several years out of date on them . . . (not that I've wasted multiple trips that should never have been needed due to this . . .)
 

·
Registered
93 Fleetwood Brougham, 70 De Ville Convertible, 68 Eldorado
Joined
·
10 Posts
View attachment 575674 View attachment 575675


Some interesting things to note is the use of 10w30 Quaker State oil, 2k change intervals, and highest octane fuel that can be found. (I thought high octane would just lead to carbon build up?)
These machines are legends and simply are not appreciated as they should be. The last time I posted this here the people from the other sections just had to chime in and disrupt things. This time I will not tolerate it at all. Keep the N* talk in the other section: You've been warned!

What I would like to hear are more reports of high mileage big blocks and reports of consistent reliability.
I am firmly of the opinion these big block 1970s cadillacs are the finest cars ever built.
I have a 1970 De Ville Convertible. I bought it in 1997 at around 140K miles---I could tell because I had a service receipt for transmission work at 70K miles and the odometer was at 40K.

I am almost certain that engine had had no work done to it at the time. It wasn't in the greatest shape externally but ran well.

At 250K I finally had a top-end rebuild, about five years ago. The valves needed lapping, and I also replaced the camshaft, timing set, lifters, valve springs (with stiffer springs).

I don't think 500K is that surprising for a '79, which would be a 425 I think? Or a 368? That engine is lower compression than mine, built with unleaded gas in mind, and puts out about half as much power as mine (140 net vs 375 gross I think). And mine didn't really absolutely have to have a top-end rebuild at 250K. I just wanted it to work better. It's at 270K now and runs like new. I am sure it blows by a little into the crankcase, but the bottom end of the engine has never been opened. I had the TH400 recalibrated to do full-throttle upshifts at 4800, and it has a smaller torque converter from a Super Turbine transmission, which is switch-pitch as well (1967 Buick transmission), so the car has some go in it now.

And of course these are "big blocks". Literally! The blocks are BIG! Cylinder bores are on 5-inch centers. Compare to ... what is it... Chevy SB at 4.400 and Chevy BB at 4.750, a Cadillac is a considerably larger block than a BBC. How could it be anything but a "big block"?

Cadillac 368 at ~140 hp has got to be one of the most indestructible engines ever made. But no, I'll take my cammed, high-compression, A.I.R.-less (a 1970 exclusive) 472 any day!
 

·
Registered
68 DVC, 96 FLTWD Brgm, 11 CTS Premium (two)
Joined
·
1,609 Posts
1977-79 Cadillac are well regarded. I prefer the 1968-70 with the full power high compression engines.
 

·
Registered
09 cadillac cts4 09 yukon Denali
Joined
·
194 Posts
My state records the mileage every time the car is registered. That would document mileage over a 30+ year span. I assume other states do the same thing. I have no idea what the useless trivia has to do with the original post.
Miles are only documented if car is in for services,mainly only at bigger dealers not your average service shop. Or when vehicle is sold miles are put on vehicle registration title.
Maybe that's why we have some good deals on cadiillacs in mn. Anyone can change dash cluster to the original miles they purchased car at.
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top