[tomeeek]

Hello Everybody,

As we are looking for some Am Sedan we have just found something like that:

Deville '90.

http://moto.gratka.pl/tresc/cadillac...4f06b6654541,1

Opinions needed before buying this car. I mean typical problems as for this model, what to have a look at and what to check out on it.

We are not familiar with American vehicles so, thats why we are asking for some help !

Thank you and greets from Poland !

Tomasz

----------

Sorry the Right Link:

http://moto.gratka.pl/tresc/cadilla...ville-klasyk-16498151.html#f49b4f06b6654541,1

 

[basscatt]

Re: Cadillac Deville - Urgent Opinions Needed !

Hello Everybody,

As we are looking for some Am Sedan we have just found something like that:

Deville '90.

http://moto.gratka.pl/tresc/cadillac...4f06b6654541,1

Opinions needed before buying this car. I mean typical problems as for this model, what to have a look at and what to check out on it.

We are not familiar with American vehicles so, thats why we are asking for some help !

Thank you and greets from Poland !

Tomasz

----------

Sorry the Right Link:

http://moto.gratka.pl/tresc/cadilla...ville-klasyk-16498151.html#f49b4f06b6654541,1

============================

if I put myself in your position -
it would be similar to an American buying a 25 year old Citroen or Peugeot -

I would be looking at a 25 year old exotic foreign car -

there are no dealers in my country to get new parts from -
if the new parts were even available - considering the car's age -

even used parts would be a problem
because there just aren't many of those cars around -

there are no mechanics/specialists who work on these cars -

considering all that -
I would have to think hard before buying one -

===================

with that said -

the engine and transmission were very strong -
and quite reliable - assuming proper maintenance schedule was followed -

the 1990 was the first year port-fuel-injection was offered -
it was not unusual for the fuel injectors to fail -

a common rust problem was around the strut towers -

somewhat common electrical problems were caused by worn/chaffed wires -
in the wiring looms under the carpet of the drivers feet -

another wiring problem
was the loom going from the door posts into the doors -

the front and rear suspension was fairly simple -

the ELC - Electronic Level Control system - in the rear -
was quite reliable - the biggest problem would be a dirty or worn out compressor -

worn out front hub/wheel bearings were not uncommon -

---------------------

 

[tomeeek]

Re: Cadillac Deville - Urgent Opinions Needed !

============================

if I put myself in your position -
it would be similar to an American buying a 25 year old Citroen or Peugeot -

I would be looking at a 25 year old exotic foreign car -

there are no dealers in my country to get new parts from -
if the new parts were even available - considering the car's age -

even used parts would be a problem
because there just aren't many of those cars around -

there are no mechanics/specialists who work on these cars -

considering all that -
I would have to think hard before buying one -

===================

with that said -

the engine and transmission were very strong -
and quite reliable - assuming proper maintenance schedule was followed -

the 1990 was the first year port-fuel-injection was offered -
it was not unusual for the fuel injectors to fail -

a common rust problem was around the strut towers -

somewhat common electrical problems were caused by worn/chaffed wires -
in the wiring looms under the carpet of the drivers feet -

another wiring problem
was the loom going from the door posts into the doors -

the front and rear suspension was fairly simple -

the ELC - Electronic Level Control system - in the rear -
was quite reliable - the biggest problem would be a dirty or worn out compressor -

worn out front hub/wheel bearings were not uncommon -

---------------------

First of all thank you for tips & comments. They are very reasonable - especially the first part - and detailed.

------------------------------------

The car was imported from Switzerland and the mileage is not too high, but that's only machine and everything could happen.

More or less I consider it. The concept is not to operate the car daily, it is going to be operated on weekends, or some AmCar rally.

What is more it is a kind of investment for my 17 years old son, who is the main idea giver of purchasing V8 AmCar.
Another words it is not easy to explain him your resonable opinon. Believe me, I have been trying to do so many times.
------------------------------------
But from different point of view probably the value will raise, especially if the car is in good shape.
As for the spare parts.
I have heard that are possiblities to import from the USA. That's for newer cars, but as for older hmm.

So, Hmm... everything depends on shape of that car.
-------------------------------------
Once again thank you so much. Comments, ideas, tips are highly welcome.

 

[Ranger]

Re: Cadillac Deville - Urgent Opinions Needed !

The car looks nice from here. More than that I cannot say.

What is more it is a kind of investment for my 17 years old son, who is the main idea giver of purchasing V8 AmCar.
Another words it is not easy to explain him your resonable opinon. Believe me, I have been trying to do so many times.

You are trying to talk a 17 year old boy OUT OF an American V8? Good luck with that.

 

[tomeeek]

Re: Cadillac Deville - Urgent Opinions Needed !

You are trying to talk a 17 year old boy OUT OF an American V8? Good luck with that.

Yeah. Thats highly impossible.

Technical request.

Does the engine - 4.5 litre - have a timing belt or a chain. If the belt, what is the replacement interval ?
How much is the replacement kit, dedicated to that engine ? - approximately.

Thank you.

 

[Ranger]

Re: Cadillac Deville - Urgent Opinions Needed !

It uses a timing chain.

 

[cadillac_al]

Re: Cadillac Deville - Urgent Opinions Needed !

It does look to be very well cared for. You probably won't find one in better condition. The only problem will be occasionally getting parts, but anything can be shipped quickly nowadays.

 

[tomeeek]

Re: Cadillac Deville - Urgent Opinions Needed !

It does look to be very well cared for. You probably won't find one in better condition. The only problem will be occasionally getting parts, but anything can be shipped quickly nowadays.

To me looks good as well. We are going to see it tomorrow. But TWO IMPORTANT things - besides technical aspects.

- switch off emotions
- if my son is willing to accept it LIVE

Thank you for your involvement ,
Greets,
Tomasz & Michał << my son

 

[brougham]

Re: Cadillac Deville - Urgent Opinions Needed !

It looks like a nice car but if I was looking for a north american car over there I would look for something more common then a Cadillac. If it has to be Cadillac I would be looking at a rear wheel drive one with a 305 or 350 because there would be a lot more of a chance of finding parts in europe and someone who could deal with bigger problems. The downside is the size with all the narrow twisty roads you have.

 

[tomeeek]

Re: Cadillac Deville - Urgent Opinions Needed !

It looks like a nice car but if I was looking for a north american car over there I would look for something more common then a Cadillac. If it has to be Cadillac I would be looking at a rear wheel drive one with a 305 or 350 because there would be a lot more of a chance of finding parts in europe and someone who could deal with bigger problems. The downside is the size with all the narrow twisty roads you have.

Just before departure.

Cadillacs are seen here, but rather Sevilles, Escalades. As for the engine. If you mean Northstar, it is seen as a problematic engine. http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2637078
In the matter of fact Rear Wheel drive V8, are much more appreciated here, as the REAL AmCar Sedans. But my budget is limited. I am trying to find the best one, cosidering it. Honestly, we consider also: Chevrolet Caprice, Ford Crown Victoria and Lincoln Town Car. The last one is most recommended here by Local AmCar lovers. The car is not going to be used daily, it is not for everyday use. We own Toyota Avensis '12 for it and MB W201 190E '88 in good shape - rather stays in a garage - which belonged to my gone Father.

Thank you for your opinion. I consider all of them.

Ps.
My son does not know about it, but Cadillac is my favourite. His faves are: Chevrolet Caprice and Crown Victoria.

 

[Submariner409]

Re: Cadillac Deville - Urgent Opinions Needed !

A large percentage of U.S. Highway Patrol (police) departments use the Ford Crown Victoria for their highway duty. The Panther body cars (Town Car included) seem reliable and long-lived.

 

[tomeeek]

Re: Cadillac Deville - Urgent Opinions Needed !

After inspection at the place.

Caddy is 85 % OK.

As THE BODY is the most important thing, especially for older cars, I checked it in case of rust and of any accident happened, bigger or smaller.

- The CHASSIS is in excellent condition - no any rust - inspected lying under the car, from the beginning, till the end of it, from both sides.
- Strut Towers - no rust, checking with a torch
- NO ANY visible traces of repairing the chassis - welder intervension etc.

----------------------------------------------

The Lacquer Car Paint: No good news - The Caddy loses 15 %

- second layer of the paint all over the body
- passenger door - filler (putty) on it

All above checked by the lacquer sensor

- right rear fender replaced, as the owner admitted
- right side of the car visibly differs in shade of color - the right front fender, the passenger door in different shade of paint then the rear door and the rear fender

All the right side must be painted once again to lose the difference.

The Front fenders ARE PLASTIC :shocked:, have no idea of it ! !

---------------------------------------------

Checked service book - the last oil inspection in 2012, Switzerland 149 kkm - vehicle being here in Poland a year - running occasionally - no reg. plates on it.

---------------------------------------------

Engine and Transmission:
- engine started well, without hasitation and run smoothly, nice and silently - I have a good ear - belive me. It was running enough time on neutral to warm up.
- had a ride - accelerates very well, changing gears nice, kick down works

---------------------------------------------

Electricity:
- driver window - does not work properly - blocked a bit
- lights, horn - works
- fans - warm, cold - work

I have to say. The engine impressed me. Works smoothly and sounds very nice, no visible leakage, clean.

----------------------------------------------

The price.

We had no compromise as for the price. Need - cause of the lacquer defects - 15 % price reduction.
---------------------------------------------

A large percentage of U.S. Highway Patrol (police) departments use the Ford Crown Victoria for their highway duty. The Panther body cars (Town Car included) seem reliable and long-lived.

Agree. They are good cars. It is said here as well.

WE have seen this Crown Victoria:

http://otomoto.pl/ford-crown-krakow-C33789976.html

Rust on the frame, could be in better condition, as for the price. Is out of our budget. But they look really tough.

 

[brougham]

Re: Cadillac Deville - Urgent Opinions Needed !

Just before departure.

Cadillacs are seen here, but rather Sevilles, Escalades. As for the engine. If you mean Northstar, it is seen as a problematic engine. http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2637078
In the matter of fact Rear Wheel drive V8, are much more appreciated here, as the REAL AmCar Sedans. But my budget is limited. I am trying to find the best one, cosidering it. Honestly, we consider also: Chevrolet Caprice, Ford Crown Victoria and Lincoln Town Car. The last one is most recommended here by Local AmCar lovers. The car is not going to be used daily, it is not for everyday use. We own Toyota Avensis '12 for it and MB W201 190E '88 in good shape - rather stays in a garage - which belonged to my gone Father.

Thank you for your opinion. I consider all of them.

Ps.
My son does not know about it, but Cadillac is my favourite. His faves are: Chevrolet Caprice and Crown Victoria.

Limited budget is why I would recommend against it. Out of your list I would get a Town Car or Town Car. They are the newer then the rear wheel drive GM offerings and because they only stopped making them a few years ago parts are easy and cheap to find so you should have no problem finding a good price for parts from someone willing to ship to you.

 

[tomeeek]

Re: Cadillac Deville - Urgent Opinions Needed !

I would get a Town Car or Town Car. They are the newer then the rear wheel drive GM offerings and because they only stopped making them a few years ago parts are easy and cheap to find so you should have no problem finding a good price for parts from someone willing to ship to you.

That's what I hear from fans and local specialist of American Cars here all the time. So, no rush in choosing the right car.
Yesterday, when we were coming back from near Warsaw - just after inspection - I asked my son if he likes L Town Car. He said that it does not fit him:annoyed:. He has got his own opinion and he is fixed on Caprice and Crown Victoria-influenced by US movies:hmm: But what I know for SURE is that I have to work on him. His mates, at his age, deal rather with budget EU cars, or older BMW, Audi etc. He has to be down-to -earth.
There are L TC here

http://otomoto.pl/lincoln-town-car-4-6-v8-200km-skora-pneumatyka-C32467956.html
http://otomoto.pl/lincoln-town-car-signature-series-C34940366.html
http://alegratka.pl/ogloszenie/sprzedam-lincolna-signature-24590563.html?h=3007a85b9982c322

Time will show.

 

[Tennesseestorm]

The front fenders on these Cadillacs are actually some sort of fiberglass composite, etc. Not necessarily plastic as I once thought. These were considered "dent resistant panels" and used on several 1990-1996 General Motors cars, such as Buick Park Avenue, etc. They sometimes cracked, hence the replacements.

The 1990 Cadillac deVille used a 4.5L engine, and it switched to larger (but basically same) 4.9L engine in 1991. As mentioned, they sometimes had fuel injector problems (as I did and had to have replaced - $230.00), but if engine running smooth, they should be ok.

Front electric windows common problem, mine do not work either.

That looks like nice car. Not sure about price, I don't know how that price compares to American money. I paid $1500.00 for my 1991 deVille with 59,000 miles, but have had to spend another $600.00 or so on it to get up to par and still could use another $300.00 in mechanical updates and still needs paint as well and my car has hail dents on upper panels.

Good luck!

(BTW - I used to own 1995 Town Car Signature Series - same basic car as Crown Victoria. Good cars, but the 4.6L from 1991-1995 tend to burn oil after so many miles due to valve seals, but usually '96+ were ok due to some engine changes. Also watch out for rear air springs issues, sometimes they fail and rear of car sags low. They can be repaired or conversion coil springs installed). Crown Victoria you post has "certified speedometer", so may have been used for police/detective services.

 

[tomeeek]

Thank for your tips, all of you, once again. They are highly valuable because you have been dealing with these cars daily for ages.

Coming back to you @Tennesseestorm

hence the replacements

Repleced was the right Rear fender. Obviously it must have been cut out and welded in another good one. That new - as the owner admitted - was taken from some wrecked Deville. So, there are the old Devilles here, rarely, but they exist.

That looks like nice car. Not sure about price, I don't know how that price compares to American money.

The price -- Pln13.900 is $3.756. But we should remember about the cost of shipping, duty, and other needed payment which - approx.- doubled the US price. The car is with 97.5 k miles.
Now I have to admit - as for AmCars - that you have got NICE price over there and - which is obvious - the choice is HUGE.

As for the injectors. I have noticed some - dedicated to that engine - on E-Bay, around $30 or something, without cost of shipping, of course.

Finally, we had no compromise with the owner, so the price is not acceptable for me. Lincoln Town Car is approx. in the same price - seen above - or Cadillac DeVille '99 is not much more expensive.

What is more, the owner admitted - or maybe I pulled it out from him - that there have been NO buyers on this car for almost a year. Another words, they have been selling the car for the year, not succesfully.

Crown Victoria you post has "certified speedometer", so may have been used for police/detective services

Yes, the Crown Victoria was bought at a Police Auction.

Thank you for your comments, Tennesseestorm

Greetings from here !

 

[Paul London]

Re: Cadillac Deville - Urgent Opinions Needed !

Meant to chip in here before but work & tech. issue got in the way.

From talking to Poles here, Cadillacs are more common in Poland than you'd think. I remember a young guy telling me he had one at home - but couldn't afford one in the UK.

A Polish Seville owner I met says he takes his car home for major repairs because it's so much cheaper (I got the impression he didn't take the parts with him).

Most European US car owners do not have to rely on the few parts places that ship world wide as there are plenty of specialists at home, at least in Western Europe. When I needed repairs in Germany last year parts I'm sure I couldn't get here were available same day, the one part that had to be shipped was ordered Tuesday lunchtime, fitted on Friday - I would've waited at least a week here!

Still grieving about not getting a Grand Marquis to take up Rock'n'Roll Route 67 last year (& being fobbed off with an MKZ) so nothing against them - but, if you really want a Cadillac hold out for one.

As for the one looked at already, I would be wary of buying a car in Poland not registered there as, from observation, Poles are very adept at buying damaged cars abroad & dragging them home (presumably in the case of RHD ones, to repair on the cheap, take back & sell - at a profit). The fact that one came from Switzerland (where they are very popular) could be an added complication/expense.

 

[tomeeek]

Re: Cadillac Deville - Urgent Opinions Needed !

Meant to chip in here before but work & tech. issue got in the way.

From talking to Poles here, Cadillacs are more common in Poland than you'd think. I remember a young guy telling me he had one at home - but couldn't afford one in the UK.

A Polish Seville owner I met says he takes his car home for major repairs because it's so much cheaper (I got the impression he didn't take the parts with him).

Caddies are not very commom, but seen here. Mate of mine, since primary school time - we live in a small town, 47 k inhabitants - is a REAL American Car Lover. He owns: Cadillac Escalade '08 and Chevrolet Corvette '99, Chevrolet Corvette Z06 '10, Dodge Viper I-st generation, Chrysler 300C SW '06 diesel, as well. He services them - excluding Chrysler, it has an authorized service nearby, 40 km - somewhere in Warsaw, 150 km from the place.

Most European US car owners do not have to rely on the few parts places that ship world wide as there are plenty of specialists at home, at least in Western Europe.

Of course, there are possibilities here, in Central Europe, to order some US parts on-line via Internet shops, but as far older cars, they are accesible on request.

...but, if you really want a Cadillac hold out for one.

As for the one looked at already, I would be wary of buying a car in Poland not registered there as, from observation, Poles are very adept at buying damaged cars abroad & dragging them home (presumably in the case of RHD ones, to repair on the cheap, take back & sell - at a profit). The fact that one came from Switzerland (where they are very popular) could be an added complication/expense.

@Paul London
A bit has changed so far.

To Sold out used car here - previously demaged and repaired cheaply, I emphasize cheaply - is not easy. Expensive used cars are checked here at authorized services, I mean: service paths, service history check, checked CARFAX, CARCHECK etc. At the end everything is written in the official purchase documents before registration.

As for the Caddy.

That is why I am equipped with a lacquer sensor and I have some experience, have had cars so far. It has - the Deville - some hmm.. adventure, experience - mentioned above.

Thank you for tips, Greets.

 

[Tennesseestorm]

You are very welcome.

Oh, rear fender replacement is much more of structural work, I would be weary, but if done properly, should be fine, but still not a positive with a car having that body repair.

My '91 deVille with the 4.9 had to have new fuel injectors despite only having 59,000 original miles. I purchased injectors on Ebay for $128.00 or so for all 8 injectors, shipping included. My mechanic replaced for $100.00 labor.

Be watchful of the mid to late 1990s Cadillacs with the 4.6L Northstar engine, as they have a horrid history of blown head gaskets, a very costly, complex repair. The 1991-1995 4.9L engine is one of the best Cadillac engines. It was in the Cadillac Seville starting in 1993 or 1994, then in the 1994 deVille Concours, then in all Cadillac models by 1996 and the 4.9L was gone by 1996. I think by 2004-05, the DeVille 4.6L was much better engine.

My personal favorite classic Cadillac is a 1971-1973 Sedan DeVille and Fleetwood Brougham. Very large cars, but commanding high prices these days. Also another favorite is a 1991-93 Caprice Classic and 1993-1995 Fleetwood Brougham. I am actually looking for one now, but also found a 1993 Buick Roadmaster with 34,000 original miles that I am considering as well.

Good luck!

 

[tomeeek]

I see that you are a fan of older cars, me too. Nowadays, modern vehicles are not so tough, unfortunatelly. I have MB W201 190E '88 - belonged to my Father (RIP), it runs well despite the age - some paint work on front fenders was needed - signs of rust.

Good to hear your opinion about Northstar 4.6L. It validates heard opinions, especially that I consider purchasing middle aged AmCar as a kind of investment for my son. As the price of the being talked Caddy is pretty high, I have started to look around for another one. This one seems to be right - low milage, good shape - but with the 4.6l problematic engine. http://otomoto.pl/cadillac-seville-44tys-km-stan-kolekcjonerski-fv-23-C31318919.html So, I have to hold my horses.

Now, it is obvious that searching here for good stuff will take some time. Moreover, I have to be careful because one time spent money could be lost.

Your tips concerning the engines are very useful. Thanks.