Hey guys, its that time for pads replacement. Any suggestions on which brands to go with besides original GM. I have heard good reviews on Hawk Performance...pretty cheap about $160 for front pads compared to $350 for OEM front pads. Has anyone replaced their pads? Thanks
Buying new brake pads
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I just put in a set of hawk ceramics in the last week.
I was looking for a reduction in dust as a primary change. So far it seems to be working, but will need a bit more time to tell. There is a bit of loss of initial bite but that was expected. I have only done a few brake tests so far, and more pedal force is required for emergency stops.
Fronts: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004MW27A8
Rears: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0134AUU84
One note, is that the pad surface shape is slightly different shape between the hawk ceramics and OEM, the Hawk Ceramics have more of a taper which leads to slightly less contact surface when pads are new. (most noticeable on the rears):
I was looking for a reduction in dust as a primary change. So far it seems to be working, but will need a bit more time to tell. There is a bit of loss of initial bite but that was expected. I have only done a few brake tests so far, and more pedal force is required for emergency stops.
Fronts: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004MW27A8
Rears: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0134AUU84
One note, is that the pad surface shape is slightly different shape between the hawk ceramics and OEM, the Hawk Ceramics have more of a taper which leads to slightly less contact surface when pads are new. (most noticeable on the rears):
No reason to pay $350 for the OEM pads. ACDelco 171-1040 is the OEM front set - $218 on rockauto.com (so about $207 after the 5% discount code, which you can find online), $228 on Amazon Prime. Rears are ACDelco 171-1127 - $109 on Rock Auto, $100 on Amazon Prime.
Personally, I wouldn't spend that much for street pads. On my various cars I've spent big money on performance street pads from Hawk, Porterfield, Mintex, Carbotech, and probably a couple others I'm forgetting. In the past few years I've decided that was stupid, and that there are plenty of options out there for a fraction of the cost. In the recent past I've run ACDelco 17D1405M (Professional Grade semi-metallics), which are about $40 for the front - excellent performance, but quite dusty. I'm now running PowerStop Z261405 - still very good performance, but much less dust, for $64 on Rock Auto.
When you go looking for front pads on Rock Auto, search for a 2nd gen CTS-V (2009-2014). RA's search engine doesn't show all the pads that will actually fit; the 2nd gen CTS-V uses the same caliper. You're looking for pads with 1405 in the part number; that's the FMSI pad shape, so most of the companies include that in their part number.
Personally, I wouldn't spend that much for street pads. On my various cars I've spent big money on performance street pads from Hawk, Porterfield, Mintex, Carbotech, and probably a couple others I'm forgetting. In the past few years I've decided that was stupid, and that there are plenty of options out there for a fraction of the cost. In the recent past I've run ACDelco 17D1405M (Professional Grade semi-metallics), which are about $40 for the front - excellent performance, but quite dusty. I'm now running PowerStop Z261405 - still very good performance, but much less dust, for $64 on Rock Auto.
When you go looking for front pads on Rock Auto, search for a 2nd gen CTS-V (2009-2014). RA's search engine doesn't show all the pads that will actually fit; the 2nd gen CTS-V uses the same caliper. You're looking for pads with 1405 in the part number; that's the FMSI pad shape, so most of the companies include that in their part number.
Awesome information! Im confused so our brake pads arent brembos? they are actually ACDelco brand?
15K miles, but will need pads soon in a few months so just shopping around for now.
ACDelco rebrands products from other manufacturers.
My rotors are okay, the dealer will check the depth for you with your oil change services.
I dont track it, but when I first got the car i was a bit over excited you can say and enjoyed the car aka abused the hell out of it lol
As Mr. burrito said, ACDelco rebrands all sorts of products. I can buy ACDelco struts for my V1, but they're made by Sachs. The OEM 2-piece rotors on your car are made by Brembo, but can be bought with an ACDelco part # or a GM part #. Same part.
If you search for parts on Rock Auto, and filter for ACDelco parts, you'll sometimes find parts that specify "OEM part", and others that don't say that. The ones that are OEM are made by Brembo. Here's a picture from an Ebay ad for ACDelco OEM CTS-V3 front pads:
The ACDelco pads that are not specified as OEM (like the Professional Grade semi-metallics that I mentioned before) are I think made by Raybestos, but could just as easily be some other manufacturer.
No. Shops (including the dealership) love to tell everyone that if you get new pads you need to replace the rotors, or if you get new rotors you need new pads. It's bullshit. You don't need to turn rotors with new pads, either - that's just cutting away perfectly good material and shortening the life of the rotors.
The rotors on these cars are pretty heavy duty as can be seen by this page out of the service manual.
Turning these rotors isn't recommended, but there certainly is plenty of meat to do it.
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that is good to hear. My wife has a Buick Regal Turbo with Brembo rotors, eveytime she needs pads, they (dealer) want to sell new rotors becouse you cannot turn the Brembo rotors and they say the rotors need replacing. So are you saying the dealer is BS'ing us?
Ask them what the thickness of the rotors is, and how that compares to the minimum thickness. Unless the rotors are at or very near the minimum thickness, there is zero reason to replace them. (From what I can find online, the rotors are 30mm thick new, and the discard thickness is 27mm.)
Are they BSing you? Maybe. How many miles are on the car? You say "every time she needs pads" - how many times has that been? How long are the pads lasting? If the car has lots of miles on it and/or has been through a couple/few sets of pads without ever replacing the rotors, then it's entirely likely they're at the minimum spec. But if they told you that the rotors needed to be replaced the first time they replaced the pads, they were probably BSing you.
I also don't know why folks think the Brembo rotors can't be turned. There's nothing special about them. Again, I think turning rotors is a waste of time and money and useful rotor life, but I can't think of any reason that the Brembo rotors couldn't be turned if one was inclined to have that done.
Wow, thanks for the info. My wife get between 15K-20K when she needs pads according to the dealership. We have gone through 2 sets of brake jobs on her buick. She has less than 50K on the car. Although her driving is 95% in the city driving, i would expect the pads to last more than 15K.
The dealer told us and i have heard here on the forum, you can't turn Brembo rotors, they have to be replaced. I forgot what the dealership said the thickness of the rotors where, but they never seem to last when she needs brakes.
You know we trust the dealer to be honest and fair so I (we) believe them what they tell us. No way i can measure the thickness. Well looks like I got hosed. who can you trust?
The dealer told us and i have heard here on the forum, you can't turn Brembo rotors, they have to be replaced. I forgot what the dealership said the thickness of the rotors where, but they never seem to last when she needs brakes.
You know we trust the dealer to be honest and fair so I (we) believe them what they tell us. No way i can measure the thickness. Well looks like I got hosed. who can you trust?
Likely there are other threads on the brake pad change but I thought I would do an updated one. This is the easiest pad change you will ever do particularly if you do it with less than 2000 miles on the car. Your most popular choices are the Carbotech 1521s and the PowerStop Z26. The 1521s are in the mid $400's and are US made and the Powerstops come from our friends in China and are about $130 the set of 4. I put the 1405 (front part number) and the 1718s from Carbotech on the Z06, but bought the Z26s for the ATS-V. Yes, you have the same brake calipers and pads as the mighty Z06.
First, jack up the car and remove the wheel. If you can find a good spot for the jack stand use them. I was uncertain about the back of the engine cradle so simply worked with my floor jack. Given that you are not under the car, it is risky for the wheel but less so for parts of your body. I used the 20$ Ifif pinch weld tool from Amazon.
After the wheel is off you can get at the back of the caliper. Note there are two silver pins pressed in from the back of the caliper and one cross bolt holder that has a small 13 mm bolt in it from the back of the caliper.
You will want to use a 13 mm socket and a 3 inch extension on a 3/8ths ratchet that is less than 6 inches long so you can use it without hitting the inner fender liner. Here are some of the tools I used. Note the punch set that has flat ends of varying sizes. Very helpful.
Reach around back and loosen the 13 mm bolt. At that size it has about 22 ft lbs of torque so no problem getting it out. Lefty loosey, right?
Here is the bolt holder coming out. It is just an easy pull out at least with a relatively new car.
Use the appropriate size punch to punch the pins out the back of the caliper. The pins have a small compression spot on the back side so you don't have to get them too far out to make them hand loose and easy to remove.
I found a 2 lb sledge a nice size to use to get out (and in) the pins.
Now that the pins and the bolt holder are out the spring will simply pop out.
Now you can coax the pads out. I used one of the punches and the sledge to coax them out from the inside of the caliper, but if you use a caliper spreader they should just fall out after you spread the caliper. I did not as my experience with both the Carbotechs and now the PowerStops is that they are thinner when new than the OEM pads so if you change them before 2500 miles you don't need to spread the caliper or push the pistons back in. That large flat screwdriver in my tools picture can also coax the pads out by levering on the pad ears.
Assembly is simply the opposite. Put in the pads. Install the lower pin by putting it in from the back and putting it in with gentle love taps of the sledge. It will be obvious when it is in as you will see the point and about a 1/16 of the round portion on your side of the caliper. Put in the spring. New hopefully but I found that my low mileage old spring actually fit better so I reused it. Hold it in by putting in the top pin. Take a bit of care here as the brake line is very close to where you are using that 2 lb sledge. Once the second pin is in you will have no problem putting the bolt holder in and under the spring. Its two flat sides line up with the sides of its front location. Reach around and put in the 13 mm bolt. Righty Tighty? I did find I was only able to get about 20 ft lb with my 3 inch 3/8ths ratchet so used the 6 inch 3/8ths breaker bar to get those few extra ftlbs I needed. Put back on the wheels and torque the wheel nuts to 100 ft lbs.
Now if you want to burnish do so. Carbotech recommends no burnishing. I have no idea on the PowerStops so I will burnish them. You should clean your rotors with brake clean spray however. That takes off the old pad material and does lessen the need for burnishing.
Have fun. I will get to the rears tomorrow morning but it is about the same with the exception of the needed bolt holder and 13 mm bolt. That is not needed to hold the caliper together on the smaller rear caliper.
First, jack up the car and remove the wheel. If you can find a good spot for the jack stand use them. I was uncertain about the back of the engine cradle so simply worked with my floor jack. Given that you are not under the car, it is risky for the wheel but less so for parts of your body. I used the 20$ Ifif pinch weld tool from Amazon.
After the wheel is off you can get at the back of the caliper. Note there are two silver pins pressed in from the back of the caliper and one cross bolt holder that has a small 13 mm bolt in it from the back of the caliper.
You will want to use a 13 mm socket and a 3 inch extension on a 3/8ths ratchet that is less than 6 inches long so you can use it without hitting the inner fender liner. Here are some of the tools I used. Note the punch set that has flat ends of varying sizes. Very helpful.
Reach around back and loosen the 13 mm bolt. At that size it has about 22 ft lbs of torque so no problem getting it out. Lefty loosey, right?
Here is the bolt holder coming out. It is just an easy pull out at least with a relatively new car.
Use the appropriate size punch to punch the pins out the back of the caliper. The pins have a small compression spot on the back side so you don't have to get them too far out to make them hand loose and easy to remove.
I found a 2 lb sledge a nice size to use to get out (and in) the pins.
Now that the pins and the bolt holder are out the spring will simply pop out.
Now you can coax the pads out. I used one of the punches and the sledge to coax them out from the inside of the caliper, but if you use a caliper spreader they should just fall out after you spread the caliper. I did not as my experience with both the Carbotechs and now the PowerStops is that they are thinner when new than the OEM pads so if you change them before 2500 miles you don't need to spread the caliper or push the pistons back in. That large flat screwdriver in my tools picture can also coax the pads out by levering on the pad ears.
Assembly is simply the opposite. Put in the pads. Install the lower pin by putting it in from the back and putting it in with gentle love taps of the sledge. It will be obvious when it is in as you will see the point and about a 1/16 of the round portion on your side of the caliper. Put in the spring. New hopefully but I found that my low mileage old spring actually fit better so I reused it. Hold it in by putting in the top pin. Take a bit of care here as the brake line is very close to where you are using that 2 lb sledge. Once the second pin is in you will have no problem putting the bolt holder in and under the spring. Its two flat sides line up with the sides of its front location. Reach around and put in the 13 mm bolt. Righty Tighty? I did find I was only able to get about 20 ft lb with my 3 inch 3/8ths ratchet so used the 6 inch 3/8ths breaker bar to get those few extra ftlbs I needed. Put back on the wheels and torque the wheel nuts to 100 ft lbs.
Now if you want to burnish do so. Carbotech recommends no burnishing. I have no idea on the PowerStops so I will burnish them. You should clean your rotors with brake clean spray however. That takes off the old pad material and does lessen the need for burnishing.
Have fun. I will get to the rears tomorrow morning but it is about the same with the exception of the needed bolt holder and 13 mm bolt. That is not needed to hold the caliper together on the smaller rear caliper.
An interesting observation. The Cadillac red Brembo calipers match the darker red Red Obsession color perfectly. The same calipers on the Z06 are a bright red. A much different color from Chevrolet. Also the rotors are much more interesting on the Corvette. Same caliper but are they the same rotor size?? Would the Z06 rotors fit on the Cadillac rotor hat?
I really like the color of our red calipers. They are a very deep red with an almost gold metallic tint.
Are the pins a friction fit in the calipers? If so, I wonder how many times they can be removed and installed before they become loose.
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