you need to trace where those wires that are spliced to the factory harness lead.
we know where the factory wires should go, we need to know where the user added wires go.

this is not getting into the U1301 high on class2 issue but may lead to the reason for no start.

 

note number 12

(1)​	Inflatable Restraint Steering Wheel Module Coil​
(2)​	C208​
(3)​	Inflatable Restraint Steering Wheel Module Connector C1​
(4)​	Inflatable Restraint Steering Wheel Module Connector C2​
(5)​	Turn Signal/Multifunction Switch​
(6)​	Turn Signal/Multifunction Switch Connector C4​
(7)​	Turn Signal/Multifunction Switch Connector C3​
(8)​	Turn Signal/Multifunction Switch Connector C2​
(9)​	Turn Signal/Multifunction Switch Connector C1​
(10)​	Steering Wheel Position Sensor​
(11)​	C203​
(12)​	Fuse Block - Steering Column​
(13)​	C202​
(14)​	Theft Deterrent Control Module Connector​
(15)​	Ignition Lock Cylinder Control Actuator Connector​
(16)​	Ignition Switch Connector​
(17)​	Ignition Key Alarm Switch (Part of steering column harness)​
(18)​	Windshield Wiper/Washer Switch Connector​
(19)​	Windshield Wiper/Washer Switch​
(20)​	Theft Deterrent Control Module​
(21)​	Ignition Switch (Hidden) and Ignition Lock Cylinder Case​
(22)​	Ignition Lock Cylinder Control Actuator​

 

note number 12

• Never noticed that, so it was a factory install.
• This is the clamping method they used. The wires are orange and white in this Pic

• The first Splice
• 
  
• 
  
• Destination of the 1st splice
• 
  
• The Fuse box
• 
  
• 2nd splice
• Its my opinion that these wiring repairs were made at the bench. There is just not enough space to maneuver around in the small cluster of wires. They are in a tight bunch, but they are also twisted around, They must have pulled the entire wiring harness out and made the repairs and then re-installed the harness.
  
  
  
  

​

 

1997_Eldorado
I keep thinking to myself, this seems to be pertinent, but it's not consistent with the way the car was acting when It finally quit starting. I had the car running last summer but it began to have what sounded like a problem with the battery. When you try to start it, you would hear a clicking sound like the battery was low. The car started but it made you wonder what day it would not start. Then one day I backed it into the garage and it just refused to start. It was like there was a problem that was growing over time. It wasnt like someting just broke, it was like something was not right and it was gradually getting worse and then it got so bad the car finally refused to start. I think that is why I stuck to the rust problem for so long.
It's likely a combination of things but I can't put my finger on what that combination would be. Initially I checked all the obvious things .

1. The symptoms
   The dash lights were flashing
2. The service engine light was flashing
3. The Traction control light was on
4. The check stability light was on
5. The key would not come out of the ignition
6. It was generally the dash lights that were all symptoms

So I checked all the obvious things like:

• The battery (symptoms remained the same)
• the Relays (symptoms remained the same)
• The fuses (symptoms remained the same)
• The wiring (symptoms remained the same)
• The connections at grounding points (symptoms were the same)
• The only thing that ever made a real difference was when I tried to remove the ECM to clean up the rusted mounting bolts. It snapped loose and after that the problem with the ignition key went away. The blinking Check Engine Light stopped.
• From a previous repair I had broken some plastic connectors, so I repaired the broken connectors. This repair never made a real difference.

 

1997_Eldorado

• I was able to track the wires I originally said were leading up to the instruments on the steering wheel to a Zip tie on a branched off smaller bundle of wires that go into the back of the ignition switch. if you look at the CarFax report I think that must have been the wiring repair mentioned in the Carfax for the first owner.
• ok
  .
• 
  

 

i did notice the body electrical issue in that list........if that was their repair i wouldn't recommend them as a backyard meknik

the ecm.....you bent the ecm casing or the bracket? can you post a pic

here is a video to show how to jump the relay to check for starter crank as well as checking the power to the relay and ground activation from the ecm during crank request
https://www.youtube.com/iMzdYCA0s2w

 

You misunderstood me. I said the ecm is somewhat flexible, so I was trying carefully not to damage it.
I was wrong about the bolts in the ecm I managed to get loose. The two bottom bolts are rusted tight. I've been running the nuts up tight and then loosening them to see if I can free them up. When I loosen them I spray blaster on them and try carefully to pry them loose. It's slow and tedious but that's how I got the top ones loose

• Ive seen very similar videos and they are good.
• Right now I want to get these two bolt off the ECM and clean up that ground and then I start putting things back together and I will run that test.
• Glad I found that CarFax, it explains a lot.
• Thanks again for the help
• 
  

 

1997_eldorado

• I am not having much luck with the ECM bolts. I have been putting PB Blaster on the bolts for days now. Running the nuts up tight then loosening and prying gently and nothing is giving at all. I am tempted to add some heat but the body of the ECM is plastic so that is definitely a last resort.
• Any ideas.

 

i would NOT recommend heat.
i don't know what the bracket looks like but what would having them break be to deal with? could they be drilled and replaced

 

i would NOT recommend heat.

• What is really odd is the bolts appear to be made of aluminum so why are they so corroded?
• Ill see if I can post a pic today.

 

dis-similar metals can oxidize and fuse together.
the bolts are likely not aluminum.....don't recall ever seeing aluminum bolts used.....its pretty soft metal. it's possible they are stainless steel, although i would doubt they would use them due to costs.
but i have been surprised more than once in my years

 

dis-similar metals can oxidize and fuse together.

• I'm pretty sure these are steel bolts (Mounted to the frame) with a Aluminum nut on them. But I have a slew of nuts and bolts from this engine that are all aluminum. The engine itself is aluminum. The bolts that held the manifolds in place were all aluminum.
• 
  
• 
  
  

 

how much are they moving?
small wire brush?
where does that steel frame attach and how is the connection there? clean?
have you tried grounding the ecm with a dedicated ground line to the battery?

 

Now that is a thought. There are other grounds not far away

 

grab a booster cable and clamp it on the battery and ecm

 

I think you hit on something I completely overlooked. We had a bad ground to the starter (braided wire) and I replaced it, solved the problem for a while. So I'm thinking maybe we should be looking at all braided wires. Let me ground the ECM and go after braided wires

 

i would try a temporary connections first before running it thru there only to find it does nothing to solve the problem.
you still have not found what or where the problem lies.
try ground directly to the starter?
jumped the starter relay to see if there is crank?
no sense in running wires unnecessarily

 

I've got so many things apart right now I'm sure it won't crank. I'm gambling that if can get a single cable through the firewall I can run a junction to both grounds in the kick panels.

• 
  

 

Deleted

 

if the metal body is not a ground than running a wire there is not going to help

 

if the metal body is not a ground than running a wire there is not going to help

• Understood, I want to run it to the Ground points in the kick panels. They are designated ground points, with BRAIDED wires. I'm betting the braided wire is the issue. I just want to replace the braided wire with a dedicated ground to the battery.

 

The PCM as wiring would show multi grounds going into the PCM
That top of the case is not really about ground as much as a heat sink for the electronics, like the quad drivers
Example of a 0411 PCM and the need for a huge heat sink, ie, using case of PCM

 

1997_eldorado

• Take a closer look at this so called ground points. Tell me what you see wrong with this ground. I looked at this a thousand times and never noticed the obvious flaw.
• I originally thought this was a braided wire, but with a closer look it turns out to be three black wires (grounds) that are laid into a terminal that becomes a body ground.
• I'm not sure about the way this fixture is built. It doesn't look like a solder joint but it is fastened with some sort of glue or hardener, but I see no solder.
• 
  

 

soldering was recommended for them earlier on in the thread i believe that was mentioned as possibley having solved someones issues?

 

soldering was recommended for them earlier on in the thread i believe.

• I finally got the glove box out. I'm sure I had it out once before, but it was really being a PITA. With that out I can see right up to the fire wall. There are several large connectors in view now.
• The writing is reverse because i had to reverse the camera to get the picture.

 

electrical problems are a pita on a good day.......with limited tools it's near impossible with these cars now

 

any good news updates?

 

• Sorry about the delay guys, Ive had my hands full with other matters.
• Well I started putting things back together. I got the ignition switch back in place and tried to start it. I now have a click when i try to crank. Thats refreshing, I must have made some progress. Apparently working with the grounds has improved things. Now to check the relays and fuses one last time.
• Ill keep you up to date
• 
  
• 1997_eldorado
  Apparently working with the grounds has improved things. Now to check the relays and fuses one last time.
  Ill keep you up to date
  
  Deleted portion where I tested with wrong procedures

t

 

deleted

 

Do you think your click is the starter relay or the starter solenoid?

 

Starter Solenoid for sure.

 

Exactly what pins did you put the jumper, contacts side ?
There should be small numbers on relay for each lug

How many pins does the relay have ?

 

Exactly what pins did you put the jumper, contacts side ?
There should be small numbers on relay for each lug

How many pins does the relay have ?

NEW EDIT
After checking I jumped it with 85 and 86, diagonally opposite. Its a 5 pin relay. FYI you dont jump the legs of the Relay, you jump the female plugs.

 

GM normally labels 5 pin relay as below

So did you mean jumpered 87 & 30 ?

1. Which is than pin 30 is getting 12 volts from its own fuse and
2. when coil of relay has 12 volts from another fuse and ground than
3. relay changes the normally open pin 87 closed,
4. which then supplies 12 volts from pin 30 to the device the relay is for

So if correct,
GM controls the coil by commanding/completing a ground to coil and fused 12 volts to other side of coil is always hot

 

GM normally labels 5 pin relay as below

So did you mean jumpered 87 & 30 ?

1. Which is than pin 30 is getting 12 volts from its own fuse and
2. when coil of relay has 12 volts from another fuse and ground than
3. relay changes the normally open pin 87 closed,
4. which then supplies 12 volts from pin 30 to the device the relay is for

So if correct,
GM controls the coil by commanding/completing a ground to coil and fused 12 volts to other side of coil is always hot

• This is approximately what my relay looks like and I am connecting 87 to 30 to start the engine
• 
  

 

So with the jumper you basically did the job the coil should have
that when coil was commanded on then the contacts change state and in your case
the output of relay on 87 which is normally open, to closed state which is carrying the 12 volts to the output

You know being with the jumper engine would start so that tells us that fused 12 volts is good

You need to see if pin for coil of other fused 12 volts is getting that voltage
That leaves the ground side of coil
When coil is NOT being commanded than with ohm meter probes, one to frame and other to pin 86 that ground wire should show an open

When trying to start than pin 86 should show connected now to ground

If NOT, then all the way back to start of your project, IF all the 5 wires show proper voltage and ground, expect output pin than either the relay is bad or have to trace that commanded ground wire to find what is bad on the other end of that ground wire.
Either VATS, or ign switch, or wiring from it to that ground side of that coil

If anything, if you need to drive the car you could take two long wires as that jumper with a single pole switch
in driver's area to act as that jumper you had

 

If anything, if you need to drive the car you could take two long wires as that jumper with a single pole switch
in driver's area to act as that jumper you had

• Of course you are correct, I need to drive the car to record fail codes to see where we are at by now.
• This is a picture of the actual relay and the jumper wire I used.
• I'm thinking the relay is bad, but this is the second relay I have put in for this starter, so I'm wondering if it's more than the relay that is a problem.
• It would be easy to drive the car except that the front end is not installed. I pulled the whole front end off to get visibility to grounding points.
• 
  
• My thought is, if I can jump the car and start it at the relay, the relay must be bad.
• But that is the 2nd relay I have installed for the starter that puzzles me.
• However there are still other issues.
• I have no gas gauge reading and the Traction control light is still on.
• That tells me there is something else still going on
• They are probably unrelated issues but they are my next concern.
• The instrument panel fuse is not blown so why am I not getting a reading on the fuel gauge. That was never a problem before.

 

You need to spend all your time testing those 2 relays, follow that above video you found as it is simple
in using the car's battery, and a multi meter

Can be the starter solenoid or the starter itself is weak, causing high current load to the relay and causes burn spots on contacts or relays or heating up the coil of relay

As cheap as relays cost, buy a couple from an auto parts store
If having a D/C amp probe when cranking the engine have the probe clamped around the output of the relay and see how much current/amperage is being drawn and look at the specs of the relay to see what max amp draw it can handle

You're assuming the coil of the relay is good or is being commanded,
but you're bypassing the relay's purpose by shunting the voltage to the output of relay

 

You need to spend all your time testing those 2 relays, follow that above video you found as it is simple
in using the car's battery, and a multi meter

Can be the starter solenoid or the starter itself is weak, causing high current load to the relay and causes burn spots on contacts or relays or heating up the coil of relay

As cheap as relays cost, buy a couple from an auto parts store
If having a D/C amp probe when cranking the engine have the probe clamped around the output of the relay and see how much current/amperage is being drawn and look at the specs of the relay to see what max amp draw it can handle

You're assuming the coil of the relay is good or is being commanded,
but you're bypassing the relay's purpose by shunting the voltage to the output of relay

Well guys I think we are about done here. I took the time to post my testing process and the results TWICE now and the moderator deleted it twice. Weve been doing this for about two years a now and suddenly he feels the need to start deleting post with no warning or a sufficient explanation. To me that defeats the whole purpose of the Forum.
This makes no sense to me:
Your post in the thread Blinking Check Engine Light 2004 SRX was deleted. Reason: bumping your thread with quotes is not allowed - have some patience.

Moderator: if you don't think working on a problem for two years require tremendous patience, Please define PATIENCE.

 

So I performed a test earlier and posted it TWICE, but it disappeared, so I'm trying to recall my test results. This is not so much from memory because I followed the video precisely for each step.
I discovered a mistake I made when you originally asked me which pins I used to jump the starter and start the car. I Used pins 85 and 86 to start the car.
So I have two relays available to test for operability. So that should be a simple testing procedure.
Both relays pass the click test when you touch a positive terminal to pin 85 and a negative to pin 86
I checked the resistance between pins 85 and 86 and they both read 72 to 75 ohms. This is considered normal.
When both relays are at rest there is no continuity between pin 87 and 30. This is considered normal because the circuit is open.
When I energized pins 85 and 86 (this closes the contact between pin 87 and pin 30) there is zero resistance on both relays, and there is continuity between 87 and 30.

• My conclusion would be that the original Relay that was on the car is still good, and my spare Relay is also good.

 

it may just be a misunderstanding. using quotes then editing may have caused some confusion.

 

Who is getting confused?
I use quotes to identify the topics I want to respond too. I don't always want to talk to your whole commentary. I think its important to point out the topics and address each one carefully.