being that wasn't there before you started your journey P0641.......... than i would look at all the disconnections you have made and recheck there it is likely from all the various areas you have messed around on a connection hasn't been reconnected properly or needs to be cleaned before reassembly.....start at the fuse box and work your way back.

I did a thorough examination of the relay in post 341 using the video. But I can do it again.

this is where you are going off and not paying attention or not understanding.......i asked you to check continuity between two points, nothing to do with the relay outside of the fact that one of those points goes there.

if you are not understanding than say so and we can try and help along but you seem to go off on your own thinking and we keep asking for the same thing many times and no conclusions can be drawn without that info

 

1997_eldorado
take your ohm meter set to continuity remove the relay and test for continuity between a ground and pin 86 when the key in in the crank position. it needs to be determined if the coil is getting a ground signal from the ecm.

​

• 
  I'll have to come back to that, I've got the penum off right now looking for oil soaked connectors. But I can do that

 

These two connectors have little pockets in the bottom. They were filled with oil. The oil seeped down between the wires. There is no way they weren't shorted out. They are sensors on the cams.

• NEW EDIT
• The bottom of this fitting has a pocket. The oil seeped down thru the wires and filled up the pocket in the bottom. There is no way it was not shorting out
• Well now that I have these fittings off, its clear to see they were sitting in oil. There are two for each cam. It's clear to see they were each setting in 1/8 inch of oil. I'm guessing that should help solve some of the level 2 data issues.

 

I'm guessing that should help solve some of the level 2 data issues.

nope....not going to help
sensors don't run on the class 2 communications........modules do
that would appear to be the camshaft position sensors and they would have thrown a code if they weren't working properly

 

No I replaced the cam position sensors. These relate to the cam shaft but different name that I can't recall. Be patient with me, we have a lot of things going on at our house right now. I'm putting it back together now.

 

1997_eldorado, Team ZR-1
Sorry for the delay, Ive been real busy with family sh$$t.

• Put it all back together and its still thre same.
• Tried to start it and there is nothing, not even a click
• Crossed the posts on the starter relay and it starts right up.
• Next I want to use the code reader to see if I improved any thing
• Right now, the Service engine light is on and the traction control light is on
• Everythig else seems normal

 

So I ran the code scanner on it again and got some P codes. U Codes are all gone. Took the scanner back to Autozone and they could not interpret the codes. Had to make a trip to my local dealer and they interpreted the codes. After talking it over with the dealer service rep we decided the errors pertaining to the map sense and the accelerator pedal, we decided it most likely needs a new throttle body assembly. Ordered throttle Body from Rock Auto. Should have it by Tuesday

 

neither of those parts are going to help the no crank.
being the short running time it has had i wouldn't rely on the codes so quickly....especially to be buying parts

map sensor and accelerator pedal lead to needing a throttle body.......seems like some strange diagnostics but i am far from a pro
map sensor and accelerator pedal.......two areas where you have been messing around so i would again be looking at connections/wiring.

to me you are moving no closer to the no crank diagnosis.
i hope all goes well

 

1997_eldorado
I agree and appreciate your opinion. I had these P codes right from thr start. It was saying my accelerator pedal position does not make sense. So when I showed the service manager he said he believed it had something to do with the throttle body and the accelerator pedal, they had to be in sync. I suspected this was a problem from the start. It may not improve the starting, but its necessary in order to run correctly.
The new diagnostic code reader gave a lot more detail than previous readers, code and statistics I never saw before, so since I had to visit the dealer for other reasons I took the code reader with me.
I will keep you up to date.
This was one of my first few postings about Codes

So it agrees with the service manager's idea. It may not solve all problems but hopefully its moves us in the right direction.

 

ok understand a bit

Code P2138 Cadillac Description

The Accelerator Pedal Assembly contains 2 Accelerator Pedal Position (APP) sensors. The APP sensors are mounted to the accelerator pedal assembly and are not serviceable. The APP sensors provide a signal voltage that changes relative to the pedal position. The Engine Control Module (ECM) supplies each APP sensor with a 5 V reference circuit, a low reference circuit, and a signal circuit.
Both the APP sensors 1 and 2 signal percentages increase as the pedal is depressed, from approximately 0 percent at rest to above 95 percent when fully depressed.
The Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) will be set when the ECM detects that APP sensor 1 and APP sensor 2 disagree greater than 10 percent for less than 1 s or the ECM detects that both APP sensor 1 and APP sensor 2 are 5 percent greater than the learned minimum position for less than 1 s.

there is accelerator pedal position sensors and i believe they do cause issues
and it is possible that a map sensor is not reading correctly but i can't draw the line to replacing the throttle body

 

1997_eldorado
That's pretty much what we talked about with the dealer. When I used to take the car to the dealer for servicing, they replaced the throttle body regularly. I never knew why but they did. So now when we are getting these error messages I can see why they were replacing it so often

 

it still doesn't make sense to me to replace a throttle body when the APP sensor is throwing codes, i believe they the APP are a common problem.
to me the throttle body is an air pipe that dircects air and holds sensors and actuators....throttle position sensor, idle air sensor, throttle actuator that controls the throttle plate.
i think everything on the throttle body is replaceable/repairable

i was hoping we could get you started but that seems out of the cards

 

For one, as many times as battery was disconnected the problem could simply be that the Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) is required to do a relearn process for it as

Depending on if the gas pedal has 2 or 3 pots, GM has to do triple cross-checking that drive by wire (DBW) has not gone faulty and cause the vehicle to go wacko and cause a crash.

So if 2 pots APP, when off the gas pedal for example, one pot would report around 0 volts where the other pot shows 5 volts.
As steeping on pedal the 1 pot would be going from 0 to 5 volts (when pedal is to floor (WOT)
\where pot 2 is going from 5 to zero volts
This allows TAC (controller for DBW) to do a compare and to verify reading the TPS is also changing voltage output and TAC is doing compares to assure all is good

If the values of compare are out of specs than the PCM forces PCM to go into limp mode

It will not allow the engine NOT to start and TAC takes over and only allows a TPS angle like 20% and max speed of like 20 MPH
This is done to allow the driver to get home safely but at those lower speeds.

Throttle body itself is not going to cause DBW the screwup, the TPS attached to it could, or the DBW motor
attached to TB.
Or again if wiring problems but since the OP has not complained of limp mode when driving the car then TAC must be OK
BUT if TPS has not been relearned, sync'd with PCM then it could be reporting TB butterfly at xx angle but APP states otherwise

New TB alone will not fix this, nor prevent PCM sending out the control of start relay be reference to ground to negative of that relays coil

Again shows why a decent OBD-II scanner is required to be simple to look at APP and TPS and see if they agree with the TB butterfly angle or not

Either way, I would do the GM relearn/sync process for TPS just to get that out of the DTCs tripping

In the end that maybe a different issue but not why starter relays coil is not getting the control ground

That is enough 2 finger typing for me . . .

 

1997_eldorado, Team ZR-1
Well I just noticed something I didn't see before. When I turn the key to the start position, all the lights go out on the dash. Could the dam switch be bad again.
I didn't notice when this started but this has to be why power is not getting power to the starter. When I put that ground wire on the relay, we lost the click of the solenoid and that could be when the dash lights went out (guessing). I have no idea what would cause that but its the last time we had a click at the starter.
Looks like I may have to pull the ignition switch again.

 

i believe that the lights and such on the dash will go out while the key is in the crank position
check that i just went and checked and they do go out when in crank position

 

1997_eldorado
Thats good news

 

1997_eldorado, Team ZR-1

 

1997_eldorado
Anyone know the idle relearn process

 

i believe it is just cycling the key on then off a number of times with the accelerator pedal in the idle position.......i don't remember the number and it may be different on the srx than my eldorado

 

As the way this thread has gone, I posted to OP what causes DBW/APP problems
I mentioned that the TPS needs to be relearned/rezoned and OP goes off on idle relearns

Idle relearn is another subject, what needs to be done is the TPS relearn to assure APP is in sync with TPS and TAC

OP does not give enough detail, so I do not know which design his TB is

In most cases, to rezone TPS angle to the PCM is
disconnect the wiring connector from TPS
Turn Key On, Engine OFF
Since the PCM cannot see signal from TPS the PCM zeros TPS angle to zero of butterfly and trips a TPS DTC
Turn key OFF
Plug TPS wiring connector back in
Clear DTCs, best is having a OBD-II scanner plugged in and look at the TPS PID with key on, engine off
should be reporting from maybe 0 to 10% angle, if so that proper rezone was done

 

Best I could do

 

2008 4.6 Idle Relearn Procedure?

I bought a used 2008 SRX4 Sport V8 with about 90,000 miles. I took it to the dealer to have them check a rough idle and suspected broken motor mount before the powertrain warranty expires, after charging me an $80 diagnostic fee, they determined the motor mount was indeed broken and replaced it...

www.cadillacforums.com

 

1997_eldorado, Team ZR-1
Innova Code Reader results 05/23/2023

• Cleared all codes as much as it would allow me
• Re-Read Codes
• P2122 Generic Stored
• The APP sensor 1 voltage is less than 0.84 volts for more than 1 second

P2122 (1 of 5) Accelerator pedal position Sensor 1 Circuit low Voltage

• Fuel sys 1 OL
• Fuel Sys 2 OL
• Calc Load (%) 100
• ECT (Degrees F) 129.2
• STFT B1(%) 0
• LTFT B1(%) 4.7
• STFT B2(%) 0.0
• LTFT B2 (%) 7.8
• MAP (inHg) 5.6
• ENG RPM 0
• VEH SPEED 0
• SPARK ADV(DEGREES) -23.5
• IATF(DEGREES) 242.6
• MAF (lb/min) 0.0
• TPS(%) 16.9
• RUN TIME (SEC) 0
• COMMAND EVAP(%) 0.4
• FUEL LEVEL(%) 50.6
• BARO (inHg) 27.8
• ECU Volts (V) 12.1
• Load Value(%) 0.0
• EQ Ratio 0.999
• Rel TPS (%) 6.3
• Ambient (Degrees) 237.2
• TPS B(%) 16.9
• ACC Pedal D(%) 19.2
• ACC Pedal E(%) 9.89
• Command TAC(%) 8.6

P0641 (2 of5) Generic Stored
5 volt reference 1 Circuit
P0106(3 of 5) Generic Pending
Manifold absolute Pressure (MAP) Sensor Performance
P2122(4 of 5) Generic Pending
Accelerator Pedal Position Sensor 1 Circuit Low Voltage
P0641 (5 of5) Generic Pending
5V Reference 1 Circuit

The only thing I can say is the U codes are gone.

 

that scanner may not handle u codes.?
without the car running for an amount of time codes aren't really dependable
also a low battery will throw some false results.
recheck all the wiring connections

 

The OP needs after all these months on this just not post scanner data but analyze it

1. Claims IAT is 242 F degrees, must be one hell of a hot day, ECT is only 129 degrees and reports
Ambient (Degrees) 237.2
2. just key on, engine off, reporting TPS 16 % angle
3 Calculated engine load 100%, PCM uses MAP and MAF in part to calculate that but
the problem is the engine was not running.
4. States voltage at PCM is ECU Volts (V) 12.1, tad too low for PCM or any controllers to properly function
5.

• ACC Pedal D(%) 19.2
• ACC Pedal E(%) 9.89
• Command TAC(%) 8.6 does not look valid

I mentioned way early in this monster thread that the 5 volts circuits need to be checked as some of those functions like MAP, TPS, APP, etc, function off the 5 volts the PCM produces, and the OP needs to go through the GM wiring schematic and see where the problem lies

 

Well I ran the car for a while to r-learn the throttle body, it still starts by crossing the wires at the relay. The car actually starts very easy.

 

(53) Understanding Open loop / Closed loop Basics - YouTube

 

(53) How to Test a Mass Air Flow (MAF) Sensor - Without a Wiring Diagram - YouTube

 

I researched the codes above and this is what I found
Innova Code Reader results 05/23/2023

• Cleared all codes as much as it would allow me
• Re-Read Codes
• P2122 Generic Stored
• The APP sensor 1 voltage is less than 0.84 volts for more than 1 second

P2122 (1 of 5) Accelerator pedal position Sensor 1 Circuit low Voltage

• Fuel sys 1 OL = Open Loop ” Simply stated, the oxygen sensor is not being used for feedback control. This can happen when the engine is not reached the operating temperature.
• Fuel Sys 2 OL
• Calc Load (%) 100
• ECT (Degrees F) 129.2 = Engine Coolant Temperature
• STFT B1(%) 0 = Short Term Fuel Trim (between -22% and +25%)
• LTFT B1(%) 4.7 = Long Term Fuel Trim (-10% to +10%.)
• STFT B2(%) 0.0
• LTFT B2 (%) 7.8
• MAP (inHg) 5.6 = Same as Barometric Pressure
• ENG RPM 0
• VEH SPEED 0
• SPARK ADV(DEGREES) -23.5 = the spark plugs would fire when the crankshaft is still –23.5 degrees of rotation away from when each piston reaches the top
• IATF(DEGREES) 242.6 = (I could find no real definition for this code reading)
• MAF (lb/min) 0.0
• TPS(%) 16.9
• RUN TIME (SEC) 0
• COMMAND EVAP(%) 0.4
• FUEL LEVEL(%) 50.6
• BARO (inHg) 27.8 = Barometric Pressure
• ECU Volts (V) 12.1
• Load Value(%) 0.0
• EQ Ratio 0.999 = Air Fuel Ratio
• Rel TPS (%) 6.3 = Throttle position Sensor
• Ambient (Degrees) 237.2 = Ambient Temperature
• TPS B(%) 16.9
• ACC Pedal D(%) 19.2 = The minimum opening usually about 5% above minimum
• ACC Pedal E(%) 9.89 = similarly, the maximum position usually about 5% below maximum.
• Command TAC(%) 8.6

P0641 (2 of5) Generic Stored
5 volt reference 1 Circuit
P0106(3 of 5) Generic Pending
Manifold absolute Pressure (MAP) Sensor Performance
P2122(4 of 5) Generic Pending
Accelerator Pedal Position Sensor 1 Circuit Low Voltage
P0641 (5 of5) Generic Pending
5V Reference 1 Circuit

 

P2122 (1 of 5) Accelerator pedal position Sensor 1 Circuit low Voltage

• Fuel sys 1 OL = Open Loop ” Simply stated, the oxygen sensor is not being used for feedback control. This can happen when the engine is not reached the operating temperature.
• Fuel Sys 2 OL
• Calc Load (%) 100
• ECT (Degrees F) 129.2 = Engine Coolant Temperature
• STFT B1(%) 0 = Short Term Fuel Trim (between -22% and +25%)
• LTFT B1(%) 4.7 = Long Term Fuel Trim (-10% to +10%.)
• STFT B2(%) 0.0
• LTFT B2 (%) 7.8
• MAP (inHg) 5.6 = Same as Barometric Pressure
• ENG RPM 0
• VEH SPEED 0
• SPARK ADV(DEGREES) -23.5 = the spark plugs would fire when the crankshaft is still –23.5 degrees of rotation away from when each piston reaches the top
• IATF(DEGREES) 242.6 = (I could find no real definition for this code reading)
• MAF (lb/min) 0.0
• TPS(%) 16.9
• RUN TIME (SEC) 0
• COMMAND EVAP(%) 0.4
• FUEL LEVEL(%) 50.6
• BARO (inHg) 27.8 = Barometric Pressure
• ECU Volts (V) 12.1
• Load Value(%) 0.0
• EQ Ratio 0.999 = Air Fuel Ratio
• Rel TPS (%) 6.3 = Throttle position Sensor
• Ambient (Degrees) 237.2 = Ambient Temperature
• TPS B(%) 16.9
• ACC Pedal D(%) 19.2 = The minimum opening usually about 5% above minimum
• ACC Pedal E(%) 9.89 = similarly, the maximum position usually about 5% below maximum.
• Command TAC(%) 8.6

p2122 is the trouble code
the data below that is likely freeze frame data that was seen when the fault code was detected.
and that data looks unusual.....ambient temperature could not be 237.2 degrees, coolant temp 129.2, load 100%.
those values don't make any sense.

but as he stated finding the 5 volt source and testing is where your problems may be for those codes as they seem to be problems with the 5 volt system.
go back and read his suggestions