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FYI, you might want to clear out your personal info from that PDF..

I'd be curious to see the TBN, if you want to go for longer OCIs. Also, while the numbers are good, the performance of this oil seems a bit disappointing. I used to get almost 10k miles out of my turbo Subaru (Stage 2) with Rotella T6. Keep in mind, this is a completely different engine, so I'm not saying you should just jump to that brand/type... but the point is that different engines like different oils (that same Subaru didn't like M1)... so while RedLine is a good brand it just may not be worth it for this motor, and/or you might get better performance from a different brand. Blackstone won't tell you this, as they're not interested in getting into those arguments about brands, etc... but the data can tell you this, if you're interested in looking. I learned to try Rotella on that motor by spending way too much time at BITOG forums!

Bottom line, good report, nothing to worry about. I would look for a lower-cost solution since this oil doesn't seem to be lasting any longer than other, lower cost (and easier to get) options.
 

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2016 ATS Premium 6-spd MT
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I notice that the molybdenum seems to be high and wondered why that might be and if it's a worry at all.
 

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2002.5 F55 CORSA STS, 2014 Explorer XLT FWD
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Yep - test paper looks OK even though several values are a bit above average. I get just as good or better numbers for the STS when using Pennzoil 5W-30 Platinum synthetic (which I have used for many years, along with a WIX 51522). Annual oil/filter changes, regardless of mileage.

Maybe the Redline boutique oils use a tad of molybdenum powder as an additive - remember the LiquiMoly and Slick50 additive scams ? or the Granatelli STP lawsuits ?

The oil stabilizer goes in the boat engine for winter storage. The air filter is for one of the F-150s. The sample went to Blackstone during a truck oil/filter change.

Oil stabilizer.JPG
 

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2013 3.6 RWD Premium - 2006 BMW Z4M
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It's been over month but I finally got this back.
For the oil nerds that are curious, looks good btw.

If anyone has one please post
Interesting report and I like to read them. I am interested in knowing if you plan on doing something different in the future and/or continuing to get the oil tested. I have considered it for my weekend car as the crank bearings can be an issue on that car. While I see a lot of these tests, I can sometimes see a reason to get them but wonder if the benefit is worth the cost. With my ATS (not modified), with recommended maintenance I think it is highly unlikely I will keep the car long enough to have engine wear problems (2013 with 60k miles) so won't do it.
 

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17' 6MT ATS Carbon Black, 09' Malibu, 08' Infinity G35x, 04' Ion Redline,
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Discussion Starter #6
FYI, you might want to clear out your personal info from that PDF..

I'd be curious to see the TBN, if you want to go for longer OCIs. Also, while the numbers are good, the performance of this oil seems a bit disappointing. I used to get almost 10k miles out of my turbo Subaru (Stage 2) with Rotella T6. Keep in mind, this is a completely different engine, so I'm not saying you should just jump to that brand/type... but the point is that different engines like different oils (that same Subaru didn't like M1)... so while RedLine is a good brand it just may not be worth it for this motor, and/or you might get better performance from a different brand. Blackstone won't tell you this, as they're not interested in getting into those arguments about brands, etc... but the data can tell you this, if you're interested in looking. I learned to try Rotella on that motor by spending way too much time at BITOG forums!

Bottom line, good report, nothing to worry about. I would look for a lower-cost solution since this oil doesn't seem to be lasting any longer than other, lower cost (and easier to get) options.
  • I Don't want Longer OCI's, In fact I was about 138miles over what I wanted (now I keep stock of the OE filters) Price is not an issue as I buy in bulk, I pay less for O&F than the dealer would charge using substandard oil.
  • This was oil was basically used for most of the winter and for what its worth I drive the car hard, but respectfully.
  • I don't/can't buy in to the rotella hype i'm sorry I see as many wins as I do catastrophic failures
  • Thanks for the heads on the personal info.
I notice that the molybdenum seems to be high and wondered why that might be and if it's a worry at all.
  • Molybdenum disulfide is used as a dry lubricant and is proven to work well at high temperatures.

Yep - test paper looks OK even though several values are a bit above average. I get just as good or better numbers for the STS when using Pennzoil 5W-30 Platinum synthetic (which I have used for many years, along with a WIX 51522). Annual oil/filter changes, regardless of mileage.

Maybe the Redline boutique oils use a tad of molybdenum powder as an additive - remember the LiquiMoly and Slick50 additive scams ? or the Granatelli STP lawsuits ?

The oil stabilizer goes in the boat engine for winter storage. The air filter is for one of the F-150s. The sample went to Blackstone during a truck oil/filter change.
  • I WILL NEVER IN MY LIFE USE PENNZOIL OIL AGAIN I literally lost two engines to rod bearing failures back to back on that dirty toilet water. I used it in my weekend/track car which consequently is an LDK/LSJ hybird. I've since switched to "Driven Race Oil" and beat on it harder on the last 5K miles (season worth of driving) than I ever have about & 1500ish of that was track/autox miles.
Interesting report and I like to read them. I am interested in knowing if you plan on doing something different in the future and/or continuing to get the oil tested. I have considered it for my weekend car as the crank bearings can be an issue on that car. While I see a lot of these tests, I can sometimes see a reason to get them but wonder if the benefit is worth the cost. With my ATS (not modified), with recommended maintenance I think it is highly unlikely I will keep the car long enough to have engine wear problems (2013 with 60k miles) so won't do it.

  • I bought the car "used" with Extremely low miles, So I wanted piece of mind. I will probably do this a few more times just to see how things track. Long term, I don't see a reason, unless you thought you hurt the motor.
  • If your weekend cars is modified or you just drive the snot out of it, I'd suggest Driven Race oil. If said weekend car is BMW M5 no matter what you do you will likely still go through a set of bearings.
 

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2002.5 F55 CORSA STS, 2014 Explorer XLT FWD
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Joe Gibbs Racing (Driven products) makes some good stuff. But be careful - some of the specialized racing stuff will ruin a cat very quickly due to the ZDDP additive packages.

Pennzoil probably had exactly nothing to do with your rod bearing failures. (Shell, Pennzoil, Quaker State - SOPUS brands (Shell Oil Products U.S.))

I use Joe Gibbs lubricants in the non-cat-converter yard equipment and boat engines - great lubes for flat-tappet engines.

Note that the workbench sticker insures smooth operation .......

DSCN0192.jpg
 

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17' 6MT ATS Carbon Black, 09' Malibu, 08' Infinity G35x, 04' Ion Redline,
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Discussion Starter #8
Joe Gibbs Racing (Driven products) makes some good stuff. But be careful - some of the specialized racing stuff will ruin a cat very quickly due to the ZDDP additive packages.
  • I'm aware, Car has no catalytic converters & runs on E85, E90, C16
Pennzoil probably had exactly nothing to do with your rod bearing failures. (Shell, Pennzoil, Quaker State - SOPUS brands (Shell Oil Products U.S.))

  • It was the direct cause, sent the oil out for testing. The oil film was shearing off the surface of the bearings. This did not happen as easily new out of the bottle (still happens), but the used oil would and quite quickly. It was either the E85, the heat, or the combination of the two. Both times engine data showed okay Oil temp, pressure, coolant temps & no Knock Retard.
  • On top of this Pennzoil (the one made with natural gas) had sediment at the bottom of the container. (This was when I bought a new sample to send to the lab). Combined I lost about 10K due to Pennzoil. And they could care less.
I use Joe Gibbs lubricants in the non-cat-converter yard equipment and boat engines - great lubes for flat-tappet engines.

Note that the workbench sticker insures smooth operation .......
 

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  • I WILL NEVER IN MY LIFE USE PENNZOIL OIL AGAIN I literally lost two engines to rod bearing failures back to back on that dirty toilet water. I used it in my weekend/track car which consequently is an LDK/LSJ hybird. I've since switched to "Driven Race Oil" and beat on it harder on the last 5K miles (season worth of driving) than I ever have about & 1500ish of that was track/autox miles.
  • I bought the car "used" with Extremely low miles, So I wanted piece of mind. I will probably do this a few more times just to see how things track. Long term, I don't see a reason, unless you thought you hurt the motor.
  • If your weekend cars is modified or you just drive the snot out of it, I'd suggest Driven Race oil. If said weekend car is BMW M5 no matter what you do you will likely still go through a set of bearings.
BMW Z4M and uses 0W-60 so options are limited, I doubt Driven has this weight and even then this is the 1st I have heard of it so would pass. I have been using Liqui Moly. With the internet and oil, there is tons of "it works well" or "I will never use "X" again" but almost no real data on which is the best oil for your application. For my car Blackstone reports show the bearings failing with copper getting high so I may eventually get a report. I have never seen a bearing problem on this engine at less than 60k miles and I am at less than 40k and putting around 2500 per year so at this rate it will likely more than 8 years to even get to 60k. With the 8k rpm engine, the possible problem is still worth it to me.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
BMW Z4M and uses 0W-60 so options are limited, I doubt Driven has this weight and even then this is the 1st I have heard of it so would pass. I have been using Liqui Moly. With the internet and oil, there is tons of "it works well" or "I will never use "X" again" but almost no real data on which is the best oil for your application. For my car Blackstone reports show the bearings failing with copper getting high so I may eventually get a report. I have never seen a bearing problem on this engine at less than 60k miles and I am at less than 40k and putting around 2500 per year so at this rate it will likely more than 8 years to even get to 60k. With the 8k rpm engine, the possible problem is still worth it to me.
Nice, I had leased 2014 Z4, I got an amazing deal on the car, the only negative I would say is the DCT, otherwise a great drivers car for sure. You could use 10w60 Both redline and drive make such an oil regardless they both flow 0w/60 when warm and its never drive in winter I imagine . On the m5 with the bearing issues it seems to help ton if you let the oil get to temp before beating on it, I would suggest the same for you as well
 

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Nice, I had leased 2014 Z4, I got an amazing deal on the car, the only negative I would say is the DCT, otherwise a great drivers car for sure. You could use 10w60 Both redline and drive make such an oil regardless they both flow 0w/60 when warm and its never drive in winter I imagine . On the m5 with the bearing issues it seems to help ton if you let the oil get to temp before beating on it, I would suggest the same for you as well
Misprint on the oil, 10W60. Z4M only came with a manual and mine is a 2006, different breed than the later cars from engine to suspension. I've read tons on the oil and not going to change until I have enough positive information another option with my engine. Agree with the oil temp, car has lights above the tach that has the recommended limit at 4500 when very cold and as it warms up moves across the tach to 8000, depending on outside temperature can take a few miles.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Misprint on the oil, 10W60. Z4M only came with a manual and mine is a 2006, different breed than the later cars from engine to suspension. I've read tons on the oil and not going to change until I have enough positive information another option with my engine. Agree with the oil temp, car has lights above the tach that has the recommended limit at 4500 when very cold and as it warms up moves across the tach to 8000, depending on outside temperature can take a few miles.
I feel you, seems like every new BMW gets more and more diluted, I loved my E36 M3 but now I would never own any new BMW.

For what its worth that driven 10w60 is specifically for M cars... Link
 

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... Molybdenum disulfide is used as a dry lubricant and is proven to work well at high temperatures. ...
I must've missed this. What oil are you using and does it have moly as an additive? If so, that would explain it being so high.

I realize it's a lubricant. I used to use a graphite oil back in the early '80s. They both have similar mechanical properties.
 

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  • I Don't want Longer OCI's, In fact I was about 138miles over what I wanted (now I keep stock of the OE filters) Price is not an issue as I buy in bulk, I pay less for O&F than the dealer would charge using substandard oil.
  • This was oil was basically used for most of the winter and for what its worth I drive the car hard, but respectfully.
  • I don't/can't buy in to the rotella hype i'm sorry I see as many wins as I do catastrophic failures
  • Thanks for the heads on the personal info.
I drove my Subaru hard as well... drag strips as well as the Stage 2 tune (50% higher boost pressures)... that's why I did UOAs every time.

I agree, if you're not doing longer OCIs, then probably not a big deal... it's just disappointing to see "regular" results with 5k miles on RedLine. As I said, I got almost 10k (as did MANY other Subaru users on Rotella T6).

I'm not saying Rotella is great for every car. I specifically said that every engine is different. This oil just did very well versus many others, as noted by my extensive data (I have MANY UOAs if anyone is interested). For example, the Subarus, in general, don't do well with M1 5w30. M1 Euro works better, but with it being hard to find and more expensive than T6, most of us didn't bother.

And, as others have mentioned, I agree with them that Pennzoil likely had nothing to do with the rod failures. But I don't care to get into an argument about any of this... you do you. If you're getting Redline for low money and such, then great... have at it. I used RL once on my NA Mazda MX6 (also driven hard, etc)... but it didn't do well versus M1, for example. Again, different engines prefer different oils.

Side note/experiment:
Oh yeah, one more thing, winter vs summer etc made no difference in any testing I did. And, related, I always hear people say that oil "ages" when it's sitting in a car or exposed to thermal changes outside, etc. I did a test with a friend's 70's era GM. This car had been driven all summer and fall, so it had 6-month-old, driven oil, and was left with the old oil out in the winter (northeast MA). It was left sitting through the snow, cold, warm, etc. I paid for the oil sample and sent it out... sure enough the oil was fine. It was used, of course, but it wasn't worn out in any way due to "thermal cycling" outside. TBN was great, and the oil was normal (except for some coolant showing up, which ended up predicting the head gasket failure he had months later). Granted, this is a single datapoint, but taken with Blackstone's old-oil testing (they tested ancient in-the-bottle/can oils that were open and not)... which also showed that oil doesn't degrade sitting in a can, on a shelf, or in the car. I choose to continue to ignore time-based oil changes, but the reader can do as they wish... I'm just providing my opinion with this story and post.
 

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I have a 55 gallon drum of oil that is from the 80's (I think). It is a Pennzoil product that is a 30w oil. It's been in the sealed drum the whole time. I had it tested by Blackstone labs and they said it was a great machine oil and would work well in my summertime machines. It has and even though it's old oil it's still fine. The analysis proved it.

Steve
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I must've missed this. What oil are you using and does it have moly as an additive? If so, that would explain it being so high.

I realize it's a lubricant. I used to use a graphite oil back in the early '80s. They both have similar mechanical properties.
  • Redline, The don't specifically say they do, so someone would have to ask.
And, as others have mentioned, I agree with them that Pennzoil likely had nothing to do with the rod failures. But I don't care to get into an argument about any of this... you do you. If you're getting Redline for low money and such, then great... have at it. I used RL once on my NA Mazda MX6 (also driven hard, etc)... but it didn't do well versus M1, for example. Again, different engines prefer different oils.

  • I would normally agree with you but evidence says otherwise. More than likely It simply could not handle E85, I still blame my self as I did not do proper research, I should have used a proper oil to start with.
  • I'd use M1, but M1 5w40 seems to do better in ecotec's, and in European version of the engines usually specs that to.
Side note/experiment:
Oh yeah, one more thing, winter vs summer etc made no difference in any testing I did. And, related, I always hear people say that oil "ages" when it's sitting in a car or exposed to thermal changes outside, etc. I did a test with a friend's 70's era GM. This car had been driven all summer and fall, so it had 6-month-old, driven oil, and was left with the old oil out in the winter (northeast MA). It was left sitting through the snow, cold, warm, etc. I paid for the oil sample and sent it out... sure enough the oil was fine. It was used, of course, but it wasn't worn out in any way due to "thermal cycling" outside. TBN was great, and the oil was normal (except for some coolant showing up, which ended up predicting the head gasket failure he had months later). Granted, this is a single datapoint, but taken with Blackstone's old-oil testing (they tested ancient in-the-bottle/can oils that were open and not)... which also showed that oil doesn't degrade sitting in a can, on a shelf, or in the car. I choose to continue to ignore time-based oil changes, but the reader can do as they wish... I'm just providing my opinion with this story and post.

  • I thought the age thing was more about the moisture build up then actual "ageing out" on top of that car would have not been driven or primed causing lots of wear at start up until the oil flow got flowing. Lets be honest most* Carb cars are not starting on the first key strike after sitting for six months.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I have a 55 gallon drum of oil that is from the 80's (I think). It is a Pennzoil product that is a 30w oil. It's been in the sealed drum the whole time. I had it tested by Blackstone labs and they said it was a great machine oil and would work well in my summertime machines. It has and even though it's old oil it's still fine. The analysis proved it.

Steve
Would you put it in your car?
 

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1980s 30W ??? Sure - why not ??? Back in the Dark Ages we used 30 weight in the summer, 10 weight or 20 weight in winter. No such thing as SAE ratings or multi-viscosity oils. And the owner's manuals told you what to use when and for what temps.

Kicker is, older 30 weight (pre-70's) doesn't have some of the anti-scuff and anti-foam additives of the newer stuff, so you would be wise to add a can of some sort of snake oil or a boutique oil like RedLine or AMSOIL for buffering.

ZDDP levels.jpg


Heck - I remember when SA rated oils came out ............ and way before that there was no such thing as "30W" - it was 30 weight. The later W suffix stood for "winter".

s-l640.jpg
 

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Here you go - Kendall 30 weight. Now you know what the 2-fingered fist stood for.

Kendall oil can.jpg
 
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