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Discussion Starter #1
I just got a call from my service guy. They say my check engine light is on bc we put e85 in it. This car is a 3k mile 2009 Escalade Hybrid. When you go to

http://www.cadillac.com/cadillacjsp/model/landing.jsp?model=escalade&year=2009

it clearly shows a picture of the hybrid symbol and says e85 compatible just below the Hybrid symbol. Come to find out, the hybrid's don't take e85 despite what it shows on the website. At least that is what I am being told. The car is not that messed up, bc there was barely a half tank of e85 in it. The car is also driving 100% fine. They just want to dump the fuel and refill it. One of two things is going on:

1) very misleading advertising. There are also numerous articles floating around the web specifically saying the Escalade Hybrid is e85 compatible. Also, Gm's own website is extremely misleading.

2) the car does take e85 and I am being told the wrong thing.

I am on the phone with caddie now and I am furious. I have gotten no response re whether they are doing anything for me or not. However, if I have to pay $350 for this garbage, I am going to lose it.

Anyone have any insight or help that they can offer?
 

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Actually the website says nothing about the Hybrid taking e85. On the Escalade link that you provided it states the standard (6.2L/403HP) motor can use it but not the hybrid. That link you provided takes you to the general Escalade page, from there you can navigate to the other 3 models shown in separate tabs to the right; Hybrid, ESV, EXT...

If you click on the Hybrid link: http://www.cadillac.com/cadillacjsp/model/landing.jsp?model=hybrid&year=2009 it doesn't mention e85 anywhere.

You said there's numerous articles stating the Hybrid's e85 capable...have any links? I went through every article in the first page of Yahoo search results for "Escalade Hybrid" and none of them mention e85 fuel capability.

No being a d!ck or hatin', but if your dealer wants to charge you I'd say you're out of luck, and to be honest, I don't see where they're on the hook...
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I am not disagreeing with what was said on the Hybrid page, but look at the link I provided. It has a huge Hybrid sign on top and then it says E85 compatible right below. Not sure what your search is, but just on the google front page of the search for "e85 in escalade hybrid" is:

http://www.carquotes.com/cadillac/escalade_hybrid/2009/4wd_4dr_platinum_edition/overview

and

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=126891

The Edmunds one is especially egregious considering it has a quote from a Cadillac/GM exec right below it. Given there could be misquotes, but between the Escalade ad, the fact that I spoke with my selling dealer re e85 before we drove away, AND the third party quotes in the links above, it seems quite clear that at the very least Cadillac is giving out some misleading information. Both my selling dealership and the one who is repairing it told be it WAS e85 capable at first. Then, only after looking at my VIN, did the repair dealership come back and say oops...I did the reading, spoke with the dealership(s) and still was not properly informed. I specifically told the selling dealer that I planned on using e85 and was never told "don't."
 

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Let me jump in here with my 2 cents. There are 2 problems that I see already, they include your links:

car quotes and edmonds.

With that being said, the links you provided are not official "Cadillac", "GM" sites, they write about the vehicles. If we (cad forums folks) were to tell you it's ok to put diesel in your tank in an emergency and you did, who's fault would it be? Not Caddies or GM. What does your gas cap say?
Looks like you need to cough up the 300 clams. :crying2:

Salesmen/women are well informed at times but are not fully reliable, they will tell you anything to sell you a vehicle. Once something breaks your service guy takes a beating for the sales persons silver tongue. Some vehicles take e85 and others don't. Sounds like sales person made a sale but didn't give you the correct fuel info. Still, you pumped the gas, you pulled the trigger, it's your fault. Sorry.
 

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My bad, I went to the first link you provided, yes it does state in the first bullet: "6.2 L V8 wih 403 hp and e85 capability".Then after the bullet it says "§§ Go to gm.com/E85 to see if there is an E85 station near you". Humm. Show this to your service manager. Have him go to his desk and pull up the cad site. See what he says.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Look, I fully admit that this is my fault. My point is that the advertising is 100% misleading and after speaking with three different people in caddi sales and service (2 in each) none had a clue that it did not take e85. In fact, all thought it would. Between the misleading front page with the huge green hybrid sign and the accompanying e85 is OK sticker, just seems their information is confusing to their own employees and the customer. I already paid the 300 clams, but I am still waiting to see if GM will do anything for me. As far as I am concerned, GM ought to do something to assist me. At the worst their ads are misleading and sales/service people are uneducated about their own product. At its best they accidentally put out info which was hard for anyone to understand. Based on that, I just think, I deserve a little help and their website should get a little revision.

In terms of 3rd party articles, I agree, they are not to be depended on. However, GM's own site is VERY confusing.
 

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I have to agree with you on this one. Request to speak with a district manager, take a screen shot of the caddie web page tonight and print it out for your records and presentation to him. Calmly explain all circumstances and request for reimbursment. All thy can say is no.
 

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I looked at the link before I posted and looked at it again, and I'm sorry, if you pay the least bit of attention, that section of text you're pointing us too is a link, which takes you directly to the Hybrid section, which states nothing about e85 capability. I don't think it's a stretch to assume you're an attorney, and with that being said your "argument" about non-Cadillac, non-factory sites stating the Hybrid is e85 capable is pretty weak. It doesn't say it on the Hybrid section of the official/factory website and it doesn't say it in your owner's manual. You didn't think the Hybrid has a 6.2L 403HP motor too, did you? 'Cause if you going to use that section of the text for your argument, use all of it, and that's why you don't have a leg to stand on...

And since you asked, here's the link for the first page of search results for "Escalade Hybrid": http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=escalade+hybrid&fr=yfp-t-501&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8. Not one of those articles mentions e85, but in response to the 2 links you provided, I wouldn't believe everything you read on the internet either.

IF your dealer picks up the tab consider yourself extremely lucky, and not because your right, but because they're doing it in the interest of good customer service. Also, I wouldn't expect to see the Cadillac website changing anytime soon because one person got confused either... :bigroll:
 

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...I forgot, you were the same guy complaining/commenting that you thought the mileage you were getting on your Hybrid was low, 16 MPG I recall, at highway speeds in the 80-85 MPH range. Run that by your dealer when you get a chance and let us know what they think of your mileage results. Sounds like more false advertising; let's say all Hybrid owners start a class action suit against GM/Cadillac, with the government bailout $ they're getting their pockets are even deeper and you'll be sure to score...

If I grenade my engine after I supercharge it I'll be sure to run it right back to the dealer for warranty service, after all, why should I take responsibility for my actions and pay for something that's my fault?

I gotta head out to McDonald's and spill some hot coffee in my lap...

I found a bottle of drain cleaner under my sink that left out the warning that I shouldn't drink it...hmmm...
 

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...and in this thread: http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-escalade-ext-esv-forum-2007/161836-e85-questions-all-over-miami.html...you missed the very point of the Hybrid's e85 capability, or lack thereof, when ewill3rd's gave his response;

Do not use E85 in a car that was not specifically designed to run on E85.
There is no benefit and there could be long term problems if you do.
Plenty of argument threads on this if you use the search feature
.

Hmmm...that's pretty clear, but since he's a Cadillac Technician what would he know? After reading his response I would have thought you would have brought up the point that (you believed) Hybrid's are e85 capable, at which point he would have corrected you and you could have had this figured out months ago...
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Actually, if you read ewill3rd's line in that thread, it speaks nothing of the Hybrid not being an e85 capable car. The quote merely states the obvious which is that running e85 on a non-e85 capable car is bad. As per my response "no one is suggesting to use it in a car that isn't OK'd to use e85. However, all 09' escalades are built to use it. Though there can be a 20% decrease in gas mileage, if you do the calculation, you still save a small amount. This amount is exaggerated when you compare using regular premium gas vs. e85. Since premium is required in the escalades, it is something to think about. If you look at the website above and put in the gas mileage/price, it shows you what can be saved. Small, but today anything helps...plus it is arguably better for the environment. Not sure what you lose out on by using it, except total miles per tank."

The point being no one, even amongst the vastly educated population on this site (especially about the Escalade) and despite my conversations even here, know one knew (at least mentioned) that the Hybrid's didn't run on E85. Since ewill3rd' didn't respond to my comments and Considering he is a technician, it appears he failed to know that the hybrid wasn't e85 capable either. To me, it further confirms my point that even Cadillac people are confused whether this vehicle is e85 capable or not. Since their ads purport that it is or are easily misconstrued as saying it's e85 capable, I feel like I tried to educate myself, but got the wrong info.

Totally off topic...Just let me educate all you lawyer haters out there...I am not a personal injury attorney, in fact, I am probate/guardianship attorney who generally believes that PI is what gives attorneys a bad name. They are black marks on our profession in many ways. My job is to go out in the community and help the sick, dying, elderly, and crazy get their end of life plans together.

1. McD's lawsuit is not hot coffee on the lap. It was actually a situation where McD's was told that by increasing the temp on coffee by 25 degrees would equal millions of dollars in cost savings (increased temps= longer lasting). There are specific correspondence from McD's own R&D dept that say if you increase the temp by 25 degrees, you will 100% burn people very badly AND it will likely result in you being sued. The next week, they increased the temp and we all know the rest of the story. Bottom line, what people don't know is that McD's made a calculated risk that increasing the temp would save them money vs. paying out bc they injured someone. Knowing full well they would likely injure someone they did it anyway. They increased the temp, not accidentally, but purposefully and knew that they were going to really hurt someone. The lady had second degree burns on her Vjay. These are facts. The reward, while large (and agreeable too large), makes sense; one day's profit on coffee for McD's. Just realize there's more to the story than meets the eye.

2. Hate atty's till you need one. My father is a doctor and I was raised hating the bad ambulance chasers...When my grandmother died, I found there is actually a place for PI. In FL you can have gross negligence by a doctor and kill someone, but if there isn't a living spouse, minor child, or dependent child, there's no lawsuit. Bottom line in my case, the anesthesiologist 100% screwed up (confirmed by the surgeon and nurses there) and killed my grandmother, but there was absolutely no retribution (no license revocation, no lawsuit) bc tort reform made it so no one was available to sue. If the same doctor stepped out of the hospital and drove his car into grandma, he would have been liable. Just because he was a doctor, he got off scott free. Now, that same anesthesiologist is working on someone else.

I am the anti-litigeous person, that's why my practice is 100% no litigation. When I hear comments like were written here, it shows the general acceptance of our society to just take generalizations, half truths, and half baked news reports as accurate. Before basing your opinion on a particular case or a generality, look into the facts. What you find, might surprise you.
 

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Interesting edutainment on the law, estatesatty. I switched from coffee to 5hr energy for a similar reason, sort of. No spills, carpet stains, coffee odors, no sugar, and no penis burns. And best of all it saves money. 1 double strength bottle can be bought in bulk on ebay for 88 cents vs 2 cups of coffee for $3-4. 1 bottle lasts me all day with a few sips here and there when and where I want.

Here's a lawyer joke for you. True story. I'm building a house for a lawyer. Something I said I would never do but that was before the economy fell off a cliff. I was telling him about how I was tutoring my wife on algebra and percentages so she could pass a medical PA entrance exam. He said, "I can tell you what 33.3% of any number is". Good one!
 

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Not hatin' on attorneys...and since I know what an estate is, I put it together with atty as the abbreviation for attorney and viola made an assumption that (based on your response) was entirely accurate...

I made a gross over-simplification of the McDonald's lawsuit. The shyster attorney is the one who did all the digging to come up with the legal argument you presented, but it doesn't mitigate the fact that a dumb ass who dumped hot coffee in their lap won the lottery...

Your post(s) reminded of one I ran across on a motorcycle forum. So using your argument that society as whole bases it personal opinions on stereotypes, insert the biker stereotype of your choice HERE before reading...

This idiot tells the story of wanting to sue (while simultaneously asking the forum members to help him put forward a class action lawsuit) because the manufacturer of the motorcycle he was riding didn't install a kickstand interruption switch. This basically kills the motor if the ride tries to take off with the kickstand down. Riding with the kickstand down would be a bad thing. Said idiot does in fact ride with the kickstand down and crashes his bike almost immediately after the kickstand pole vaults the bike into the pavement. No major injuries, bike is completely repairable, but this pseudo-bad arse is the laughing stock of all of his friends who saw the whole thing happen. So this jackass not wants the manufacturer with deep pockets to pay for his bike's damage from the result of his own personal negligence but has the audacity to admit that he had no less than 4 beers in him when this happens. Un-friggin'-believable...

So again, taking your argumentative posts into consideration, you still haven't answered the question, did you think that your Hybrid came with a 6.2L/403 HP motor? Either way you answer that question you're just flat out wrong, which is exactly why you won't answer it; it overlooks the most critical point you're (poorly) attempting to make and is something that wouldn't past muster in first year law school mock trial...

By the way just for laughs I called my dealer today and (separately) spoke with 2 salesman and 2 service people. I proposed the question, "Can the new Escalade Hybrids use e85 gasoline?" All 4 of them answered no and additional commented that it was the only Escalade that didn't...of course one of the service guys wanted to make sure that I knew it didn't have the 6.2L/403 HP motor but I told him I already knew that from the hybrid page on the Cadillac website. It was admittedly difficult to conceal my snickering, but I persevered...

Attorneys? I have a lot of use for them. Right now I'm employing the services of several of them and would be at a loss without them. But then again I'm not about to drink the drain cleaner without a no-consumption warning on it and run to one of 'em (provided I survive the incident) to win the lottery. Kind of reminds me of Kramer's attorney, Jackie Childs, on Seinfeld...

...forgot to ask, so what exactly did you think when ewill3rd answered your post? Since you were so convinced that the Hybrids were e85 capable I would have thought that would have been the first thing you would have mentioned to him in your follow up response, but since you didn't is it that (1) ewill3rd didn't/doesn't know that the Hybrids are not e85 capable (which is arguably why he posted it to begin with, but we can let him answer for himself) or (2) you had it in your head that Hybrids were e85 capable but didn't feel the need to correct him. I think both are unlikely but since it disproves your point and is demonstrative of failing to pay attention to detail, I can understand why this madness wasn't stopped months ago.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Again your comments highlight the point that you have a general, and somewhat understandable disdain, for the legal profession. Your motorcycle comparison is rubbish based on the fact that there was no real understanding by your bike company that they were doing something hazardous with a calculated risk against hurting people.

Let's not digress from the point of what my issue is though. In terms of your calls to the dealership, I just didn't get that information, I wish I did. Let's be honest, thank god, I am not going broke over $350.00. All I am saying is that based on the misleading information I got, GM should take the hit. If they don't, I could care less. I looked into this issue quite extensively (look at my previous posts), asked questions at my dealer, and was never told. I did NOT exhibit any negligence, rather I did look into the situation. Answering your question, I had no clue whether my car had the motor stated in the ad or not. I also had no reason to clearly look at the ad considering no one had told me that there was an issue to be concerned about. What I did know is that there was an ad on GM's site, that had a symbol for my car, a big "escalade hybrid" banner, and a big approval for e85 underneath. I followed up by asking my dealer. I did my due diligence. Look at the definition of negligence "failure to act with the prudence that a reasonable person would exercise under the same circumstances." My asking questions, coming to this forum, reading websites, and reading their website was what a "reasonably prudent" person would do.

Could I have done more, sure. Would a reasonably prudent person done more, I doubt it. You are free to disagree...
 

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I don't have a disdain for attorneys, just anyone who fails to accept responsibility for their actions and will point the finger at anyone other than themselves when something goes sideways.

Personally I wouldn't run e85 no matter what the cost...especially in a (high) performance motor that's designed/preferred to run premium. My '07 isn't e85 capable while the '09s with the (effectively) same 6.2L/403 HP motor are. If I was worried about the cost of fuel I would have bought a Prius...

I'm sure I'm not the only one not tracking with you on this one, but I'm also sure there's people seeing things you way, but if we were sitting across the isle from each other in court I'd be pretty confident with my presentation of the preponderance of the evidence...

...but I'm no attorney... :thumbsup:
 
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