Cadillac Owners Forum banner

1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Registered
2012 CTS
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
**Warning** Long-winded dealer horror story ahead:

I purchased a certified 2012 CTS luxury sedan in early March with 36K miles for $22K. When I purchased the car it had a star crack in the windshield that the dealer said they would replace prior to delivery of the car. I assumed this occurred on a test drive...as the car had allegedly been "certified". The dealership was Alexander Buick/GMC/Cadillac in Oxnard, CA. My fault for buying AND picking up this car when it was dusk. It was certified so I thought I had nothing to worry about.

It took two days since their "installer" was busy. I picked up the car and gave them my cashier's check from my credit union paying in full. As normal, if you can't arrange your outside financing at the moment of purchase, you have 5 days to arrange for such. When the car was delivered it did not have a factory GM windshield but an aftermarket one. Since I got a very good deal I thought it would probably be ok. I also noticed after I got home that the dealer gave me the wrong CPO check list for an ATS, and I was not given any manuals, as well as there was a significant gouge in the right headlight lens. I let the dealer know about the manuals and CPO and they said they would get them both for me. A week later I get something in the mail from Wells Fargo Dealer Services saying thank you for financing your new car with us. The dealer had pushed through their financing despite me paying the car in full. I go to the dealer that Saturday, and the finance people were "busy" and made me wait an hour and only because I saw the finance manager and chased him down in a hall did I get to talk to him when I did. They said they were aware and were "unwinding" this second loan I now had on my credit. I had to follow up to make sure it was in fact occurring. Another week later no manuals or CPO list, and I notice the car had this weird steering issue where you needed to make a "mid-turn" correction half way going through any corner. My wife attributed it to it being a car she was not used to but I knew that this was not normal and took it in to another nearby Cadillac dealer as I was not going to have the original dealer service this car after the nonsense I was experiencing. The dashboard speaker panel also appeared like it was warping so I had them look at that as well. They replaced the rack (bad internal seal) and speaker panel (it had warped). After I got the car back home it looked like they had scuffed one of the a-pillar trim pieces, presumably when trying to get the speaker panel in. Since I could not say for sure it was not like this when delivered, again I felt if it bothered me enough down the road I would replace it myself...I was just glad the speaker panel and rack were resolved. The original dealer still did not have my manual or CPO list so I called GM corporate. A week goes by with no response and when I call my customer service rep Melissa W. she says the dealer has not called her back, which of course was no surprise. Then while taking my daughter home from school, my wife says a screeching noise is coming from the front of the car. I tell her to use OnStar to arrange for a tow back to the dealer that serviced the rack. Initially she tells OnStar rep the address she needs a tow to and then they download navigation directions to her instead of calling the stupid tow company! Finally after 15 min. on OnStar she has finally arranged for the tow. The tow truck driver says that it appears that the rock shield is bent against the disk. Since my wife had not driven anywhere or heard anything that could have caused this to have happened, my natural guess is that they messed up the rock shield when they replaced the rack (the tie rods are right in there) . It is towed there and they say a "pebble" had lodged itself between the disk and shield and that they resurfaced the disk and it was fine now. Since they picked up the charge I did not contest what I thought was very unlikely based upon the tow driver seeing underneath when he put it on the flat bed that they were likely using the pebble story to cover up probably a poorly reassembled rack replacement. When I get the car back the paper protection is still in there with grease all over it , my tan carpet has grease on it and my front license plate is sitting on the front passenger seat. WTF?! They clean the carpet and reattach my front plate saying the original dealer had likely used not long enough bolts and that it must have occurred when the car was put through the car wash.

So finally the original dealer is going to mail me the manuals and CPO checklist (like I would want to waste gas making a fourth trip to this dealer), but I have yet to get an official response on the windshield...(add to that I have noticed black windshield adhesive oozing from behind the A-pillar trim piece) Will they will warrant it as everything else under the certified warranty since it is not a GM part? Would not the CPO process forbid this type of replacement? I also suspect that the CPO list may not have originally existed...as I believe this car was "fast-tracked" as a CPO and was never really "gone' through" based upon the rack, warped dash piece and gouged passenger headlight. I think the tire wear numbers will tell the true story of whether they "made-up" a CPO after the fact because I plan on measuring the tire tread depth...because why would it take a month to produce the report...especially if they "accidentally" gave me the other car's? Why would it take a month to produce the manuals?!! The original dealer said they would warrant the windshield, but of course a verbal commitment is worthless. Also, my salesperson (Allen M.) was completely non-responsive....the second I drove off the lot was the end of his involvement in my purchase...besides trying to give me a 2013 manual set for my 2012 car.

Despite this I still like the car...though the seats are as reported...not very comfortable on more than a one-hour drive...at least for a 6' tall broad shouldered adult.

What are your opinions on this experience?
 

·
Registered
Too many cars to list...
Joined
·
191 Posts
This is why when I purchased a used car I don't try and buy "the cheapest" one there is. Sorry to hear about your headaches! My experience with the Cadillac dealer has definitely been mixed. Young's in Owosso was really good and seemed to do the job correctly whenever I brought the car in for service but the Cadillac dealer in Lansing (Suburban Cadillac) was an absolute horrific experience! Never in all my years have I seen such horrible workman ship from a dealer!!!
 

·
Registered
'11 coupe-- manual shift-- 1 of 65 built.
Joined
·
87 Posts
My car has had pieces of gravel catch between the brake disc and the brake backing plate half a dozen times. The first time it happened the car was 300 miles old.
It sounded like a seized wheel bearing. We finally took all the discs off looking for the cause of the screeching noise, and found matching tracks in the discs and
backing plates from gravel being dragged along before it ground down enough to fall out. So we bent the backing plates away from the discs. The problem has
only happened once in the two years since. The noise is extremely distressing, but it is a very minor problem in actuality. Backing up will usually dislodge the
gravel and end the noise.
 

·
Registered
2012 CTS4 (AWD)
Joined
·
118 Posts
Where I live, (Quebec) the sheer amount of gravel expended on the roads as abrasives during the winter months makes it almost impossible NOT to have any wedged in there, I've been driving since 1987 and I've never had a car that didn't at least once or twice get gravel wedged in the brake shield so that's no biggie.

What concerned me more is the double financing thing, we have verifications here that are made by law and if a dealer pulled something like that they could actually get fined. It's considered fraud.
 

·
Registered
08 CTS DI AWD Luxury-Performance II ThunderGray/Titanium
Joined
·
135 Posts
Wouldn't you have to sign paperwork to start the loan process?
 

·
Registered
2012 Cadillac CTS 3.6 Premium AWD
Joined
·
222 Posts
wow! What an horror story, that is not normal. That is the most issues I have ever heard with a 2012 CTS on this forum. My question is, 2012 with 36k miles for just 22k and its certified? Too good to be true, apparently.
 

·
Registered
2012 CTS
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Well this gets better. I received the owners manual, warranty book and the CPO check list in the mail today. The warranty book is from a 2013 model (mine is a 2012) and it has some torn pages. Also, they gave me back the wrong CPO check list...the one I returned to them except this one is the yellow carbon of the one I originally signed the day of purchase and returned a week later to them! I have looked more closely at the windshield...does the rainsense sensor/bracket have a silhouette of what looks like clear glue/adhesive around it where it attaches to the windshield? I can't believe this is how a correctly installed windshield would appear from the factory. I noticed the spot in the windshield where you are supposed to be able to read the VIN number attached to the dash is completely obscured too...it is impossible to read the VIN. I think the windshield was not aligned correctly...and that is probably why the trim is loose and basically hanging around the rainsense sensor as the alignment is off.

This whole experience has been maddening.

The dealer customer experience manager called me tonight. He said he'd call at 6 and then called at 6:40. Said they had broken down on a test drive :bigroll: I downloaded on him the whole story of incompetence that has lasted 5 weeks. Person after person dropping the ball...salesperson, finance, service(at the other dealer) and now their follow-up customer service. The manufacturer needs to have better oversight over these dealer "certified" vehicles...
 

·
Registered
2012 CTS Luxury 3.0 AWD Red
Joined
·
34 Posts
Sorry to hear of your problems. I have a 2012 also with a couple issues. My question is wouldn't a 2012 with 36K miles still be under factory warrantly even if purchased used?
 

·
Registered
2012 Cadillac CTS 3.6 Premium AWD
Joined
·
222 Posts
Sorry to hear of your problems. I have a 2012 also with a couple issues. My question is wouldn't a 2012 with 36K miles still be under factory warrantly even if purchased used?
Yes absolutely. It transfers, buying it used makes no difference. It may be up soon, my 2012 with 36k expires 10/11/15.

----------

Especially if it was "certified" that usually means the car has some type of extended warranty on top of the standard
 

·
Registered
2012 CTS
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
The "certification" extends the term of the warranty sometimes well over the original factory...my problem is that many of these issues should have been corrected by the dealer A) before the car was even allowed to be for sale and B) major issues were likely purposely overlooked during the inspection to save the dealer money (like replacing the windshield with an aftermarket one...which ultimately burdens the manufacturer when the warranty is exercised. A "certified car"I am not surprised the GM customer service rep has not answered my question regarding the non-use of GM factory part replacement on the windshield...it is likely because they ARE supposed to but she does not want to admit it to me. Per GM's website: "Each Cadillac Certified Pre-Owned vehicle comes with the full assurance that it meets Cadillac's stringent standards for mechanical condition and appearance—standards set with Cadillac's 172-point Vehicle Inspection and Reconditioning process. Ultimately, you’ll have complete confidence that your Pre-Owned Cadillac drives as immaculately as it looks." This HAS NOT occurred on my vehicle.

I am going to allow them a few more weeks to make this right, then I'll send a letter to the dealer owner and copy GM Customer service, and then ultimately file small claims against both the dealer and GM if I get blown off by the owner/general manager. Nothing like this should go this long...they are just hoping you'll eventually go away as a result of frustration. Probably statistically, 95% of people just give up and say they'll never buy another brand of that type of car again.
 

·
Registered
2012 CTS, thunder grey chromaflair
Joined
·
120 Posts
Yes absolutely. It transfers, buying it used makes no difference. It may be up soon, my 2012 with 36k expires 10/11/15.
Dave295
do you mean the warranty of your 2012 Cadillac CTS 3.6 Premium AWD is up to expire? Do we have 3-year 36k or 4-year 50k warranty?

----------

Dave295
do you mean the warranty of your 2012 Cadillac CTS 3.6 Premium AWD is up to expire? Do we have 3-year 36k or 4-year 50k warranty?
This is what's shown on GM's website:

WARRANTY AND COVERAGE
Cadillac 4-year/50,000-mile1 Bumper-to-Bumper Limited Warranty with no deductible
Cadillac 6-year/70,000-mile1 Transferable Powertrain Limited Warranty with no deductible for 2013 and newer models (5-years/100,000-miles1 for 2012 and older models).
Cadillac 6-year/70,000-mile1 Roadside Assistance for 2013 and newer models (5-years/100,000-miles1 for 2012 and older models).
Cadillac 6-year/70,000-mile1 Courtesy Transportation for 2013 and newer models (5-years/100,00-miles1 for 2012 and older models)

BUMPER-TO-BUMPER LIMITED WARRANTY
Cadillac backs your new vehicle with its no deductible, Bumper-to-Bumper Limited Warranty. The entire vehicle is warranted for repairs, including parts and labor, to correct any defects in materials or workmanship for 4-years or 50,000-miles, whichever comes first (except routine maintenance). The warranty covers towing to the nearest Cadillac dealership, and there is no deductible for warranty repairs during the warranty period. The warranty transfers automatically with vehicle ownership during the warranty period.

TRANSFERABLE POWERTRAIN LIMITED WARRANTY
Cadillac will warrant each 2013 and newer vehicle for 6-years or 70,000-miles1 (5-years/100,000-miles for 2012 and older models1) with no deductible from the original in-service date of the vehicle, for warrantable repairs which are required as a result of defects due to material and/or workmanship to the engine, transmission, or drive systems.
 
Joined
·
12,778 Posts
The "certification" extends the term of the warranty sometimes well over the original factory...my problem is that many of these issues should have been corrected by the dealer A) before the car was even allowed to be for sale and B) major issues were likely purposely overlooked during the inspection to save the dealer money (like replacing the windshield with an aftermarket one...which ultimately burdens the manufacturer when the warranty is exercised. A "certified car"I am not surprised the GM customer service rep has not answered my question regarding the non-use of GM factory part replacement on the windshield...it is likely because they ARE supposed to but she does not want to admit it to me. Per GM's website: "Each Cadillac Certified Pre-Owned vehicle comes with the full assurance that it meets Cadillac's stringent standards for mechanical condition and appearance—standards set with Cadillac's 172-point Vehicle Inspection and Reconditioning process. Ultimately, you’ll have complete confidence that your Pre-Owned Cadillac drives as immaculately as it looks." This HAS NOT occurred on my vehicle.

I am going to allow them a few more weeks to make this right, then I'll send a letter to the dealer owner and copy GM Customer service, and then ultimately file small claims against both the dealer and GM if I get blown off by the owner/general manager. Nothing like this should go this long...they are just hoping you'll eventually go away as a result of frustration. Probably statistically, 95% of people just give up and say they'll never buy another brand of that type of car again.
Hi Paul2012CTS,

I deeply apologize for the difficulties you’ve had in working with your dealership regarding your certified pre-owned CTS. I understand that you have a case open already, but I would like to look into it from my end to ensure that it is being handled properly. If you could please PM me with your VIN and/or case number, I can research the situation.

Enjoy your day,

Austin J.
Cadillac Customer Care
 

·
Registered
2010 CTS 3.6 RWD Sport Wagon (traded in for a 2011 Lexus LS460 on 12/20/17)
Joined
·
321 Posts
It sucks that you have to go through all this with a supposed CPO car.

I remember looking at a CPO Honda S2000 at a local dealer. It was unlocked, so I checked the interior. It looked as if it had been driven by someone with sandpaper gloves. Every switch and surface was scratched, and there was dirt in every crevice. When I popped the hood (this was in February) there were clumps of leaves lodged around the engine compartment. I asked the salesman how a car that had gone through a hundred-and-something point CPO check could possibly look like this. He said "Oh, it doesn't get checked until it sells." Really. I don't think I'd even buy a new car from them after seeing that.
 

·
Registered
'02 ETC CE, '04 CTS-V, '04 XLR, '13 XTS Platinum
Joined
·
2,654 Posts
From what you've described, it appears the car was CPO'd by the salesman and not the dealership. In other words, their inability to produce the CPO paperwork and selling a vehicle with obvious defects that wouldn't pass the 172-point inspection speaks volumes.

The car gets inspected, -and repaired if necessary, then certified as a CPO BEFORE it is listed for sale.

The whole point of performing the CPO inspection is to assure the dealership that GM won't lose money on warranty repairs, plus it provides peace of mind to prospective owners.

My vehicle was a CPO and had two minor items repaired prior to the car being presented for sale. It's been trouble-free for nearly a year.

Honestly, I wouldn't have signed for the car without the CPO agreement and inspection report in my hands. This is a good lesson for prospective buyers.

CC
 

·
Registered
**2014 CTS4 Sport Wagon-Luxury**
Joined
·
1,965 Posts
also check that your CPO is from Cadillac and not from the dealership...I have seen cars that were Certified but from the dealership...just as we have all seen extended warranties from companies other than the General...

Bill
 

·
Registered
1984 Eldorado Biarritz / 2011 CTS Luxury
Joined
·
186 Posts
I desperately would like Cadillac to really achieve world class status, but until world class customer service is SO ingrained into the culture of both the company and the dealer network, it will never become a reality. Unfortunately, stories like this are still all too common, and it breaks my heart. Cadillac has definitely come a long long way in building a quality product, but as Apple and Lexus have showed the world, it's more than just the product itself, it's the whole user experience which builds and ultimately maintains brand loyalty.

It is genuinely time to seize the initiative. Mercedes, BMW, and Audi are building products which only last as long as the warranty, and are frighteningly expensive to maintain after that. Yet, for the sake of a badge, a certain cache, they are willing to become masochistic tools for these companies. Deluded into thinking they have joined some sort of selective club. A club of fools.

What if every Cadillac dealer would almost unconditionally stand by the product, and provide unparalleled customer service? It could take another 10 or 20 years, but there is no better time than now to start. There are hearts and minds to be won, and hopefully, once again an American car company can stand head and shoulders above anything Europe could produce.

If only.
 

·
Registered
SOLD - 2010 CTS4 Premium Wagon-Diamond White-Cashmere Interior
Joined
·
2,930 Posts
Unfortunately the General Manager for the Cadillac brand came from BMW!!! dfw_caddy is 100% correct, most dealers still sell/service Cadillacs like they were Chevrolets!!! Marv
 

·
Registered
'14 CTS-V LongRoof; '16 ATS-V Sedan,' 04 Trailblazer 4x4; '10 CTS LongRoof gone but never forgotten
Joined
·
14,158 Posts
Bingo, Marv! I just had that experience last Friday from a dealer 90 minutes away that my wife and I drove to for a new CTS test drive. They sell Chevy's there and the experience we had, the way they treated us was both illegal (literally!) and terrible. Dan Vaden Chevrolet/Cadillac in Brunswick, GA. Don't ever deal with these morons. One of the worst car dealer experiences I have ever had (truthfully).
 

·
Registered
2010 CTS 3.6 RWD Sport Wagon (traded in for a 2011 Lexus LS460 on 12/20/17)
Joined
·
321 Posts
I guess it just depends on the ownership. I've been to Armen Cadillac in Plymouth Meeting, PA, and Holman Cadillac in Mt. Laurel, NJ. Both service departments were excellent.

While i was waiting for my car at Armen Cadillac, the owner came over and said hi, and made sure I was being taken care of.
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Top