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baby the car or drive it hard?

3K views 28 replies 12 participants last post by  CadillacLuke24 
#1 ·
I've heard mixed opinions on this its a 2002 Deville some people on other websites like youtube for example say put the pedal to the floor and drive it hard and others say baby it i wanna know other people's experiences with these cars and how they drove it and how many miles you can get out of this engine Im curious so let me know right now i drive conservatively with the occasional wide open throttle pull
 
#4 · (Edited)
The engine was designed to be driven hard. Won't hurt a thing.

The WOT procedure was more important on the pre 2000's due to carbon build up in the "squish" area in the combustion chamber. Carbon would build up and the piston would contact it, causing the piston to rock on the wrist pins and the skirt would slap the cylinder wall. It would sound like a collapsed lifter and a dose of WOT would clean it out. After the 2000 redesign that doesn't happen much any more so the WOT is more for fun.

It has nothing to due with HG failure.

P.S.
During testing, the Northstar was run at WOT for 300 hrs (12.5 days) straight at WOT.
Think you'll ever get anywhere near that much WOT time on your car?
Drive it and enjoy it.
 
#8 ·
Hmmmmm, the car is older than the operator...
:ROFLMAO:
"I will definitely get a test kit first and try then i will try to check the purge line after that is the test doesnt show a head gasket leak if the gasket is blown im screwed cause im only 16 and i have some knowledge on fixing cars but not enough to replace a head gasket on a northstar."

Dogging this one seems less than prudent. Add in the 'Man in Blue', less than good sense that we(at least I) had way back when, and wallet,,,well...

 
#10 ·
Hmmmmm, the car is older than the operator...
:ROFLMAO:
"I will definitely get a test kit first and try then i will try to check the purge line after that is the test doesnt show a head gasket leak if the gasket is blown im screwed cause im only 16 and i have some knowledge on fixing cars but not enough to replace a head gasket on a northstar."

Dogging this one seems less than prudent. Add in the 'Man in Blue', less than good sense that we(at least I) had way back when, and wallet,,,well...

Nah i actually drive like a grandma the thing is lucky if it even sees more than 3500 rpm just wondering how other people drive these cars and how they last i certainly wouldnt wanna be hauling around wot in a big almost 4000 lb caddy on a daily basis
 
#9 ·
If the 2002 Deville in question is a Y-car then it's speed limited to 112 mph and it will be almost impossible to overload or hurt the engine (given proper care and maintenance).

Just don't go crazy and beat on it. There is a big difference between hard driving and abuse, and it takes lots of driving and lots of money to learn the difference.
 
#11 ·
I've heard all the horror stories about the N* over the years as I'm sure many of you guys have. In my years of selling Caddys I never had a complaint about the engines not handling the pressure of the right foot. In fact, last year I drove my 03 Deville with 172k from Maryland to Alabama 13 hours straight stopping only twice for gas and food. Drove the hell out of it. Not like a fool, but at constant speeds in excess of 75mph. Ran flawlessly. Lost about half a quart of oil, but otherwise all good. Keeping it serviced, using common sense, and paying attention to the great advice on this forum should help tremendously.
 
#12 ·
I can honestly say that, with very few exceptions, my STS has seen WOT redline runs in 1st or 2nd every time it gets driven. After 10+ miles of warmup, though.

The thing simply loves to cruise I-95 at 70+ for hours on end. It still gets one or two Maryland-Florida round trips a year.

Remember - this is a "what's wrong" website, not an "I love it !!" website. ALL the warts are compressed in here. Maintain accordingly.
 
#15 ·
No. Most Northstars are misers when it comes to oil burning. Regular healthy engine exercise keeps oil burning to a minimum. My 2002 gets over 6500 miles to a quart of 5W-30 synthetic.

That said, some of the engines had troubles with oil pan seals, halfcase seals, front and rear crankshaft seals, oil filter adapter seals, oil pressure sending switch, and cam cover gaskets - each has its own repair protocol and NONE of the leaks (except for the filter adapter/switch) are even remotely inexpensive to fix. It takes a LOT of drips to equal the $2700 fix for a weepy halfcase seal.

I believe we have asked you to study the below article before. Here it is again - please read the entire article, written by a CF member who was a Cadillac Northstar Powertrain Development Engineer.

 
#16 ·
Agreed on oil use.
The 2004 has not lost a 1/2 quart in 4mo/5000mi.

Most of the loss is leaks, which pisses me off, I would kind of/sort of like it to stop. Nothing cheap/easy is the leaker. I would "maybe" add some stopleak, but it was filled and no room on the stick to add more of anything. Firm believer in 1/2 stick is full enough/check it at every fueling or so and let the engine write the history of WTF to do/think. Overthinking is not user friendly.

A recent trip proves out what great cars these are. 1500mi fwy/100city
59gal used, plenty of hills(2000-6000ft), and load on the return trip. 27mpg.
77mph avg 4-6hrs at a time.
And a few WOT uphill pulls, 3rd gear, 50-80mph...traffic...

Excellent ride. Beats hands down our '07 Lucerne CXL3.8...mpg/everything.
Still shows 24mpg avg. and I been driving in town for a week,hahaha
 
#17 ·
"..... firm believer in the half stick is full enough......"

For our FWD Northstar cars that's straight from the GM/Cadillac tech shop in a TSB - here - read it. About P.2 and P.3 - the section on verifying oil consumption -


Here's a representation of a 2000 - 2005 FWD Northstar dipstick and the correct oil level, engine off for 5 minutes, warm, level surface.

<=== ADD XXXXXX XXXX <-- OPERATING RANGE===========O

The A in ADD is one quart low, the tip of the stick is 2 quarts low - and about where the oil level sensor trips the DIC message.

Metal
 
#18 ·
Yep. 1/2 way in the operating range is for me. Sometimes/some cars/some parking situations, even lower is better. Leaks set the plan. Potential leaks.

Transverse engines not as bad, but longitude mills filled/overfilled, are bad news on rear seals/pan gaskets, when parking on an incline. I would much rather run a bit low and change a bit more often, than fix leaks I could have prevented.
Not to mention track cars/levels/windage trays/etc. More is not always better.
 
#19 ·
I guess I've been super lucky. My 2003 doesn't leak and I use about 1-1.5 quarts between oil changes, which according to the OLM is about 8k miles. Around town it's conservative driving, but outside of town I see WOT 2 or 3 times a week, sometimes more. I shut off the a/c, radio, roll the windows down just to hear that wonderful sound.
 
#20 ·
Can relate to the sound. The older it gets, the more it seems to "speak" to me. Although I detest the dots of oil that have accumulated on a certain spot in my driveway, I much prefer to "lose" a little as opposed to "use" or burn oil. Seems to be oozing around the pressure sending unit, which will soon be replaced. Another task made manageable by following a thread on this forum.
 
#21 ·
If you replace the oil pressure sending switch, also replace the oil filter adapter gasket/O-ring assembly. Also known to weep.

1998 - 2002 uses a 2-bolt 2-O-ring adapter; 2003 and later used a 3-bolt adapter and a single gasket assembly.

Early 2-bolt diagrams, later 3-bolt picture, pressure sending switch (best changed with filter adapter in-hand).

Click to enlarge, use the side < > to scroll, click the little grid lower right for full picture.

Text Line art Auto part Diagram Font
Auto part Automotive piston Automotive engine part Hardware accessory Metal
Auto part Finger Metal
Plumbing fitting Pipe Tool accessory
 
#25 ·
I would not drive it hard as this implies power on, braking, cornering.

The D car is essentially as I call it a 'fast lesabre'

It has EXACTLY the same underpinnings of the B C D cars, especially where it counts:

Tires and brakes.

the tires are too small by 2-3 sizes to spiritedly drive thru corners and the brakes are half of what is needed to stop its bulk repeatedly from speed.

And there is no possible upgrade and GM never really did make any go fast suspension parts for this.

is is possible to make a 2 ton car handle like a snake? sure, look at the CTS, but the CTS (especially gen 2+) was designed from the ground up to compete with BMW 5 series and Ms. that makes a difference.

possible mitigations you can do: power stop makes rotors and carbon fiber ceramic pads, front and rear. they seriously reduce fade which is what you get very early on with the stock brakes on a twisty mountain road.

tire upgrade to a stickier compound. You are gated on sizes, in a perfect world it should have 235-50s (at least as the base with 245/255 options) on an 18"+ wheel, but that aint gonna happen.

there are no OTC spring options (I looked, including going to the older Olds LSS stuff) or shock/strut options that will help. It was caddys flagship float mobile with power

you can bump up the rear sway bar a notch, but its not pinned well to the car and do you REALLY want to increase oversteer in a deville? not likely...
 
#26 ·
Just returned from a 8500 mile USA trip in our 2000 Deville. High altitude, (Yellowstone), long cruising across the upper midwest, heavy traffic in New England, warm and muggy in Texas. I didn't baby her, yet I found that just cruising around 70mph was most economical and she just purred. Highway mileage was just over 30. She went over the 100000 mile mark in Texas!! :)
I had had the studs and motor mounts replaced with "Northstar Performance" ones and the torque converter serviced. I no longer have any leaks.
The caddy is so comfortable....(thanks Basscat for the advice on the rear shocks).
Oil consumption was about one quart/1000 miles. I think that is a bit much, but I understand that the Northstar engines do use it.
Never afraid to get up on her to merge on highways!!!!
Take your caddy on a road trip !!!!! You will really appreciate all the effort and money you have invested in her !!!
AD
 
#27 ·
Oil consumption was about one quart/1000 miles. I think that is a bit much, but I understand that the Northstar engines do use it.
SOME Northstars use oil. Under just about your same driving conditions for the trip mine gets over 6,000 miles to the quart of Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30.

"Use" is misleading - does the engine burn oil, leak oil, or a combination of both ?

Engines - within any brand/model line - are quirky. Some consume oil, some don't.

EDIT: The GM warranty target for a Northstar in good condition is ~2,000 miles/quart.
 
#28 ·
Hey, Submariner!!

The engine does not leak oil, at least none goes to the ground and there is no smell of any landing on a hot surface nor any visible on any surface. As far as burning... there is no visible smoke or odor. The car just easily passed its California Smog Test.
I'm running 5W-30 Full Synthetic.
 
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