[SheldonZ28]

I am only starting this thread here as the 3.6L LF4 is pretty much only modified in ATS-V form, so you guys have the most knowledge to share with me

I put this thread in this area, given it being a specific fit to LF4 and pretty much nothing else related to Cadillac lol

Anyways, The car is a 2005 Mazda RX8, originally the rotary BS that was removed to fit an LS6.

In case your interested in reading from the start of this build, as I will keep things mostly LF3/4 related here:

http://www.rx8club.com/non-rotary-swaps-196/2005-rx8-ls1-t56-swap-256928/

I decided on going a different route from the LS swap in my RX8, literately due to multiple "yea but another LS swap" comments lol.

Originally I was going to switch to a VW 1.8T based setup as a stroker motor and such, but then I landed a job as the Parts Manager of a GM dealer and decided I wanted to go back to my roots with a GM motor.

The 2.0L LTG is a kickass 4cyl engine, but they are still rather expensive and have a lower performance ceiling overall. I was talking to my shop foreman one day, and he suggested I look at the 3.6L , which I initially shrugged off as knowing the HFV6 as the "timing chain stretcher" but upon some further digging, I realized he was right about how close the ATS-V LF4 is to the LLT/LFX.

The rest is history of course...and I am lucky to work for GM and have A. Parts bin access, B. a fair bit of knowledge to dig at, and C. the perfect seat to get ahold of parts GM does not really want me to have.

I should note, at the time of this posting, GM wont sell me an LF3/4 engine block, or the MG9 TR6060 from the ATS-V, so I have been forced to use the AY6, until it break it in half and can beg my rep to release a MG9 to me lol!

Humble beginnings:

First test fit, really wish the fuel pump and coolant outlet were not behind the damn motor, as it led to a good bit of firewall surger to be able to fit the engine in the position I wanted.

I am a big fan of the fact that the LGW uses a nylon center section to help with heat soak, I was going to fabricate a lower manifold section to fit it, which would not have been difficult depending on whether you can fabricate aluminum parts, but the idea was shelved entirely due to time constraints to have this car driving this summer

First mock up of the LF4 ATS-V OEM intercooler set.

Played with duct mock up, part of the decision to go LF4 and drop the LS6 was intake inlet positions and shorter overall length.

Could not deal with all of this, without gods gift to beer lovers...

Whipped up a ghettofabulous transmission crossmember lol

Getting more ideas for fit

Was making more progress on the roll cage.

Have a very limited space to work with so oil cooler mounting had to be rather creative.

As you can see, I threw in the towel and went with a LF4 intake manifold.

I am not really that happy about it, but I have next winter to figure out how to ditch it and run the LGW. Oh well, only a $600 intake to sit on my shelf for no reason.... :|

Made some progress for fitting turbo intake tubes. The turbos will be OEM LF4 turbos which bolt to the heads (LF4 alumisomething turbine turbos are a $290 premium each)

 

[LAROKE]

Welcome and thanx for posting this. I will be following along with strong interest. My ATS-V is my daily driver but my other vehicles are hot rod trucks so I love swap stories.

 

[TheDamnYankee]

Cool build, I'll be keeping an eye on this. So I'm a bit confused - is that an LF3? It looks far too dirty to be an LF4.

 

[possibly_burrito]

This is awesome! What are you using the car for - time attack, drift, or something else?

 

[ChicagoTommy]

Awesome build! Can't wait to see how it works out. I was literally just having a discussion on another forum about converting a 3.6 from a new Camaro to twin turbo via LF4 equipment. It should be rather straightforward.

 

[SheldonZ28]

Some some more shit was mocked up.

More progress on half cage also.

LF4 rocker covers showed up. They have a pretty damn impressive PCV system in them in comparison to the LLT covers.

Rolled the car out and did some more work fitting the intercooler system.

And then spent some time trying to make a splitter. This will be made from carbon after, I am just making a template right now.

And I think this pretty well brings us up to date.

I will be continuing to update this thread, any questions I would be happy to answer! I am learning a ton about this engine as I go, I have only been working with it for a couple months now, but never driven something with one yet haha!

I am searching for someone to work with me on the tuning of the car, so far it looks like GPI is one of the most experiences in 3.6L and WeaponX looks like one of the more experienced in ATS-V.

Of course, I am in Canada, so no matter which I choose, I will be driving a long ways, but I want to find someone I can work with in the tuning, and not hands my key & how to start it list, then wait haha!

 

[SheldonZ28]

Thanks for the kind words guys!!

The block is actually an LLT block. GM is both tight lipped and rather selective when it comes to ordering LF4 parts. The LF4 block is simply not available for purchase, and the LF4 "Service Replacement" engine, is expensive, and is available on exchange only basis. I have some concern over the overall strength of the LLT block vs the LF3/4 block, but I dont think I am going to see any issues. The main caps are the focal point of increased strength with the LF4 block, other than the provisions for turbo coolant system & oil drain. I have removed the LLT frost plugs to fit coolant feed adapters and the LF4 heads I have will have their coolant return utilised, with oil drain backs going to AN fittings on the custom oil pan.

I have built everything so far with some used parts I have been able to find, and otherwise basically gaming the GM system to get them to release parts to me.

The engine is all LF4 engine parts, short of the block which is LLT, connecting rods are LF3 steel units ($30/each vs $390 each) , Cam's are LLT also as they have a larger pump lobe, more duration with ever so slightly less lift, and front cover/acc system is the Acadia style as it worked better for my swap application.

I have ported the cylinder heads myself, intake valve bowls got most of the work as the OEM LF4 intake valve bowl is horrendous but outlet to turbo was fairly substantial porting also, the inlet tubes are significantly different and should aid in turbo spool!

 

[SheldonZ28]

Finished fabricating my half cage last weekend!

I have been planning from the beginning of this swap to run a duct in the bumper to exit out the hood. This is what made the LF4 such an attractive choice as it is somewhat short other than the annoying AF coolant block & fuel pump off the back, but everything fits to the side and 90% of the engines weight is behind the axle centerline.

This was the first cardboard mockup to figure out duct design. The vent section is from a C7 Corvette, but it is rather difficult in the space it is in to be sure the leading edge is higher than the trailing edge. It is definitely not in these mockups. Back to drawing board lol!

I forgot to take pictures of the inlet duct to fit to the bumper

Still loving this project as much as its driving me insane! There is no specific end goal for this car beyond a 200mph standing mile, and a shit ton of fun on the time attack circuits near Toronto through the summer. I picked the RX8 initially because i kinda liked the way they looked, but had no interest in the rotary. The guys trying to swap them seemed to have alot of technical problems, and I thought it would be a fun car to try to be creative with. I have had it for 4 years, but only driven it 3 months LOL! I decided to go with this swap as I couldnt find anyone who had really done it before, so therefore I could see if I am capable of having to design a swap setup with no help, and see what I can teach myself!

I am hoping to soon get it to a point where I can look for some sponsor help with bigger buck items. While this car is incredibly cheap based on what it is capable of, I am only 26 and this thing is the reason I dont own a house LOL

 

[averagejoeV]

Pretty sick , had the same issue with my 7 , opted for 20B instead (i dont work at chevy) , kudo`s man , the engine fits quite nice behind the rack , thats awesome , it will save you all that bump steer issue crap .
What tranny are you using ?

 

[duneless]

Love the build man. Looks sick already. Keep pushing forward. We are all watching to see how this turns out. Oh and put some vids out of the car doing 200. Love that swap.

 

[Theonlylevi]

Any updates on this build?

 

[tuckermaclain]

Welcome to the forum! You build looks awesome! Will be following it. What a labor of love. I am waiting to see when you start getting the Caddie ECU to work in the Mazda!

 

[AAIIIC]

Failbucket links modified so the pics show up again.

 

[SheldonZ28]

Welcome to the forum! You build looks awesome! Will be following it. What a labor of love. I am waiting to see when you start getting the Caddie ECU to work in the Mazda!

Thank you everyone!!

I do apologize that I have been negligent with keeping this thread updated, though I am happy to say that does not mean the build has not been progressing!

The ECM has been a major hangup in the project, but I am very thankful that after 2 months of intensive reverse engineering, head scratching and concern I may not be able to do what I had intended, I have managed to solve the issue!

 

[SheldonZ28]

There is much to update since I last posted here, and I can elaborate on some of the steps if anyone would like some more information!

My FrankenLF4 did get completed, as noted before it utilizes a used LLT/LFX block which along with the front cover, are the only used parts within the engine, everything else is new! Assembly of it was straight forward, though the LF4's bearing clearances are a little tighter than I would have liked, and averaged about 0.001-0.0015. I would rather have been a big on the larger side of clearance given it will be primarily motorsport used, but I will see how it goes. It likely wont see more than 10,000km before next winter when I tear it down again to inspect.

(I have dropped photobucket and am using imgur now in hopes they don't lead themselves to believe their irreplaceable like PB)

Setting up the timing chains! This gives me anxiety to look at, as I come from the LS world LOL!

Completed

And the oilpan was an issue for me, as I did not have the clearance to run the ATS-V Pan, so I had to modify an oil pan. I ended up having a friend mill the pan down for me and built a steel lower section with oil control baffling/trap doors. Fingers crossed this works out as nicely as I my mind envisions it will! The steel lower section was used for a bit of impact resilience and because it was far cheaper for me to MIG weld it than $300 work of TIG welding if it was made of aluminum. This may get revisited next year!

So with that setup, I began to prepare the engine bay for the engine to be installed!

More to come!

 

[SheldonZ28]

Trying to keep a bit of a chronological order going, but there is a ton of typing to do LOL.

The engine finally made it into the bay, along with some of the support parts. I will mostly just upload some pictures here and if anyone is interested in details, feel free to ask

Pretty well everything for this car has been fabricated by myself on evenings and weekends out side of work. A friend of mine is a TIG welder and welded up the aluminum intake pipes for me, but otherwise I have made everything else including the carbon fiber parts.

First front bumper fit test, as I decided to update the car to the 2009+ R3 RX8 front end.

This is an idea of how it will look when finished

Figuring out the shifter was quite a challenge as the cast aluminum was too porous to weld, and I did not want to dump $500+ on an aftermarket billet shifter, so I created this setup. Sketchy...but functional lol

Back to populating the engine bay

I mentioned the aluminum intake tubes earlier. This is what they looked like after welding! I designed them and cut all the tubes, and had them taped together to go to my buddy for final weld. Since I am not using an AC compressor, and redesigned my accessory drive, I have more space to run the tubes different and figured a more straight shot into the tubes would be beneficial over the OEM Design

They each have an MAF plate, a bung of the PCV system, and one has a mounting plate for the intake pressure sensor!

More to come!

 

[SheldonZ28]

I had to cut the seat mounting out of the car and re fabricate it much lower.

The RX8 is a rather small car, and I am a rather tall fellow, so I modified the seat mounting so I can fit in the car with a helmet on, and not have my head jammed against the roof.

I brought the car out to the CSCS Racing Season finale in september this year, even though it didnt run, just to show the progress.

Couldnt resist this touch LOL

Getting ready to bring it out!

Made up a splitter for it, though it still has much work to go as far as carbon layers, mounting and spill plates for the side of it.

On the trailer to head out!

The best idea of where she is at now! Still tons more to go, but I am certain she will be rolling for the 2018 season!!

The next post I will get into some information about the electronics for it

 

[rjoffe]

Nice!

Based on the looks of your shop/garage, you have been at this game for a while. What else have you fabricated on this scale ?

The door hinges are a nice touch !

 

[SheldonZ28]

Nice!

Based on the looks of your shop/garage, you have been at this game for a while. What else have you fabricated on this scale ?

The door hinges are a nice touch !

Thank you!!

The door hinges were the cheapest solution I could come up with that had hinge setups matching some of the other oil control setups I found online LOL! Have had to be creative wherever possible to be able to afford this (Which I pretty much cannot regardless lol!)

This is so far the most elaborate build I have done, and ultimately I just wanted to keep trying things that seemingly wont work to teach myself and expand my knowledge base!

At 27, I have been lucky to get pretty deep into a few builds, as I did my first LS swap when I was 17 and kept expanding from there! I started this RX8 when I was 24 and finished the LS6 swap a year later, then it sat aside while I lost my shirt building a procharged LS2 RX8 for a customer and then an E30 BMW lol

Despite my afterhours love for spending the money I made during the day, I have yet to really figure out how to position myself in the industry or find a business I could latch on to, and grow with! I have been in and out of working in GM Parts @ a few different dealerships around the toronto area, but am still working on little projects outside of this and work to see if I can spark a business opportunity!

 

[rjoffe]

Got any rough numbers as to what this project will cost? (You can exclude the cost of the hinges if that makes it easier ).

Turning a hobby into a business is a big step! There are quite a few small business owners on here, feel free to ask for ideas.

Here is my 2c:

Before you start you need to have 1 year's income saved up. That means you won't need to care about food/shelter/insurance, etc. and that $ can only be used for those items, can't put it into the business. Any startup capital you need has to come from a separate account. This eliminates a huge amount of pressure for the business to provide income during that first critical year.

Paperwork is important, if you can't answer the first question I posed, you aren't organized enough (yet).

Spend twice as much time as you think you need on planning. A business needs to look and feel like a business. Today that means web site (even something simple), business cards, phone number, flyers for car shows and meetups, etc.

Specialize!, the more unique your products are, the less competition there will be. (And conversely, the harder it will be to get started).