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ATS 3.6L Premium vs ATS-V?

23K views 104 replies 22 participants last post by  rsingl  
#1 ·
Hey guys, I have an offer to pick up a 2017 ATS 3.6L RWD Premium with all the fixin's for a very good deal. In an ideal world I'd probably have the ATS-V (with auto so my girlfriend can drive too) but... we're realistically talking a $15K+ difference.

The more I dive into the details, the more I'm surprised just how much sport-oriented tech an ATS Premium has, from a car you'd think is aiming to be more luxe. Some of what caught my eye, some of which it shares with the ATS-V:

- Magnetic Ride
- "Performance" suspension tuning vs regular ATS "Sport" suspension
- Mechanical LSD
- Upgraded engine cooling system
- 335 hp 3.6L LGX vs 464 hp twin-turbo 3.6L LF4
- 8L45 transmission vs 8L90 transmission (basically the same with different torque capacities. Both are 8-speed paddle shifts and benefit from modern logic/programming)
- 18" wheels on both ATS Premium and ATS-V

Obviously a stock ATS will never ever be an ATS-V. But I'm really surprised by the attention given by Cadillac to performance items on the Premium, and surprised by the relative level of overlap with the V. Would it be reasonable to look at the ATS 3.6L RWD Premium models as a bargain giving you maybe 3/4 of an ATS-V at just 2/3 of the price?
 
#3 ·
I haven't had a chance to drive the V yet, but here's what I can tell you from my Premium RWD experience. It's basically the journalist-special spec of the ATS, not very many are built that way - basically a 3-series with all the M-Sport goodies, but probably even less common as a percentage. While the Premium is pretty darn stiff in Sport mode, I actually find the Touring mode to be just a tiny bit sedate for me - the ATS-V is stiffer to start with, probably feels more "on" in tour-mode and closer to what I would want the Premium to be to start with (also, I feel that all trims should feel as sporty as the Premium - my ATS loaner experiences are always kinda disappointing). Also, while I'm rarely short for power, I wouldn't call the car fast - it is quick enough, but the V ranks as fast.

Here's a few differences to your list:
- Magnetic Ride - Premium uses Gen 2, V uses Gen 3 (much faster response in Gen 3)
- Mechanical LSD - V actually uses the eLSD that is in the Corvette/Camaro SS, much more sophisticated than the G80-series in the Premium
- Upgraded engine cooling system - the Premium has an HD fan, I don't think they add any extra heat exchangers like the V has
- 335 hp 3.6L LGX vs 464 hp twin-turbo 3.6L LF4 - don't forget 285 lbs-ft vs 445 lbs-ft of torque!
- 18" wheels on both ATS Premium and ATS-V - V has wider wheels and tires and Michelin Pilot Super Sports vs Bridgestone summer run-flats; I haven't found switching to Super Sports being much grippier (but in the wet and/or cold I can tell), but they do ride noticeably better (louder though)
Other cost items to think about aside from the higher initial price (which probably won't disappear in depreciation, aka higher resale), the V takes premium fuel and gets 20% worse fuel economy, insurance is probably higher, and then all the other consumables (tires/brakes/oil) are more expensive. But hey! Drive them both and start deciding!
 
#9 ·
I haven't had a chance to drive the V yet, but here's what I can tell you from my Premium RWD experience. It's basically the journalist-special spec of the ATS, not very many are built that way - basically a 3-series with all the M-Sport goodies, but probably even less common as a percentage. While the Premium is pretty darn stiff in Sport mode, I actually find the Touring mode to be just a tiny bit sedate for me - the ATS-V is stiffer to start with, probably feels more "on" in tour-mode and closer to what I would want the Premium to be to start with (also, I feel that all trims should feel as sporty as the Premium - my ATS loaner experiences are always kinda disappointing). Also, while I'm rarely short for power, I wouldn't call the car fast - it is quick enough, but the V ranks as fast.

Here's a few differences to your list:


Other cost items to think about aside from the higher initial price (which probably won't disappear in depreciation, aka higher resale), the V takes premium fuel and gets 20% worse fuel economy, insurance is probably higher, and then all the other consumables (tires/brakes/oil) are more expensive. But hey! Drive them both and start deciding!
Thanks for all the education! Definitely some strong differences there. $15K worth? Errrmmm... I'm not so sure. I wonder how the ATS suspension in sport compares to the ATS-V in touring. For other peoples' sake I appreciate being able to dial down to ATS touring if I'm not driving solo. I get the feeling that the 3.6L might be the power-to-weight sweetspot for effortless fun mashing the throttle all the way without getting yourself in trouble too easily.

Super Sports may well be a future upgrade. I have them on my Maserati and absolutely love them compared to the P Zero Nero's on there before.

2017 Premium Performance or prior years Premium RWD have those items that are not available on lower trims.
These are also rare trims, not generally stocked by dealers. They might order one or two, with the rest being customer orders.
Most ATS are Standard or Luxury trims.

Cadillac charges a lot for what the V adds.
Yep, I'm realizing they're about as rare as hens' teeth. Veeerrry nice car for the money. Packed to the gills with almost every possible desire-able convenience nicety (seriously, half this stuff isn't available on a 3-series no matter what the price). 2.0T RWD Premium auto are rare to begin with, 3.6L RWD Premium even more so, and 2.0T Premium manual so rare that its basically not even worth it (especially when the 8-speed is faster). A buddy is telling me that Caddy "screams 65 years young" (personally I know plenty of seniors who know and enjoy their fast cars) and that I'll "enjoy the buttery smooth ride. the last great American auto brand.". He's smug about the Audi S4 he's just ordered, but joke's on him because the ATS is much lighter and just about as powerful for a better overall ratio.

Handling, braking, driving dynamics....absolutely or even exceeding it...acceleration wise probably not so much. That thing is still twin turbo don’t forget!
I haven't driven the CTS, and I've heard phenomenal things about its dynamics. But ultimately its still 500 lbs heavier, and I'm more of a dynamics guy than a power guy. So much so that I passed on the 2013 M5 my girlfriend's father offered to sell me way below market... I've driven it a lot, and the power is absolutely silly, but the drive and the feel is dead dead dead.

The Cadillac forum is pretty neighborly, thanks everyone! I wish I could say the same about the Mercedes dealership I just bought the 3.6L RWD Premium from!
 
#5 ·
2017 Premium Performance or prior years Premium RWD have those items that are not available on lower trims.
These are also rare trims, not generally stocked by dealers. They might order one or two, with the rest being customer orders.
Most ATS are Standard or Luxury trims.

Cadillac charges a lot for what the V adds.
 
#7 ·
What are you used to driving and how do you plan to drive the car?

If you are coming from a car that does 14 seconds or more in the 1/4 mile, the premium will feel fast. If you are coming from a muscle car and use that power, the premium will underwhelm and you'll wish for a V. Other than nitrous, adding power to the V6 is difficult.

Handling wise, the premium ATS will do very well. Unless you will track the car, I don't see a lot of advantage to the V in handling, except from psychological confidence. While the premium with good tires will out-handle most anything out there, if you are coming from a true sports car or a modified car, you may want the V. However, you can upgrade the premium's suspension at an affordable price.

Sounds like you haven't driven the car. That's the first step.
 
#10 ·
I drive a Maserati GranSport (Italian coupe with 400 hp Ferrari V8, crazy snappy but unrefined F1 transmission, RWD with a transaxle layout for rear-biased weight distribution). Four doors would help a ton with avoiding unflattering dances since I carry friends frequently (I'm in NYC, and thus most friends do not bother owning cars). Also, the Maserati's driving position is so low that my 5'-nothing girlfriend finds it terrifying to drive in NYC's dense traffic.

I appreciate power, but its driving feel more than anything else that gets me going. Which is why I love my Maserati but really can't connect with the F10 BMW M5.
 
#8 · (Edited)
I owned a ATS performance, and then purchased my current premium. The differences between them are really dramatic. It feels a totally different car, specially considering that my premium is a manual six speed. So I agree with you on Premium.

That being said, V is a fantastic car and is in a whole new level compared to a regular ATS. The difference between V and regular premium is so much that $15K extra is totally justifiable and makes sense. But the question is should you pay that extra $15K? That is not a question for me to answer, because it is going to depend on you financial planing, etc. But V is totally worth that extra $15K. I myself was considering buying/leasing a V. And I almost signed the papers. But then decided that I am better of to focus on buying my new townhouse, and I settled to a cheaper option- a used premium!

Also keep in mind that you are not going to totally lose that $15K! You can partially get it back when you sell the V. How old are these cars, and what are their price tags. Knowing these info, I can give a better answer in terms of future depreciation.
 
#11 ·
I bought my ATS as a daily driver and with the 3.6 premium RWD trim it performs very well and for me is the right mix of economy and performance for most of my driving.

If I want to go crazy I take the Z06 out for a spin but it drinks 93 octane (and a lot more fuel than the ATS), has tires that are sticky enough that I don't go on paved roads with loose gravel to avoid getting "rock blasted", and I have to be cautious about rapid elevation changes when going in/out of parking lots. So the ATS 3.6 premium has enough performance and handling without having to worry about where I am driving it AND I am confident it is less of a ticket magnet.
 
#12 ·
As a guy with a Cadillac and a Chevy maybe you could answer my curiosity: would it be reasonable for me to expect to be able to walk into any GM dealership with my ATS and receive some service if I need it? I.e. if I am on a long road trip through areas without Cadillac dealerships and I run into a non-major issue.
 
#13 ·
Kinda curious to get more thoughts on the ATS Premium vs the CTS V-Sport. Torque of course is in a different league, but in terms of power-to-weight they're relatively close... and that's a lot less weight! They seem to share a lot of tech between the Alpha chassis, the transmission, suspension tech, etc

CTS V-sport
Weight: 3998 lbs
Power: 420 hp
Power to weight ratio: 0.1051

Cadillac ATS V6
Weight: 3461 lbs
Power: 335 hp
Power to weight ratio: 0.0968
 
#31 ·
couple issues i see with this post....don't know where your numbers came from and expressing the power to weight ratio in this decimal form makes the numbers look misleadingly close...so here's what i did to tighten this up:

i looked up the invoices of two 2018 examples (actual cars) to get their true shipping weight...if the weights previously used came from magazines or other sources it's hard to compare due to what fuel levels their methodology dictates.....the invoice shipping weight, on the other hand is consistent and a necessary number required by rail and transport

CTS V-sport (actual car shipping weight)
Weight: 3897 lbs
Power: 420 hp
Power to weight ratio: 0.1077
lbs per hp 9.28

Cadillac ATS V6 (actual car shipping weight)
Weight: 3575 lbs
Power: 335 hp
Power to weight ratio: 0.0937
lbs per hp 10.67

put simply...each pony has to work 15% harder in the ATS or CTS V-Sport has 13% less burden on its motor
 
#16 ·
Thanks for the tips! Funny... I didn't even think of warranty when I asked the question about service. I don't think I've ever actually owned a vehicle under warranty, now that I think of it.

I tend to get enamored of specific weird older vehicles and so the majority of my car and motorcycle purchases are over 10 years old when I buy them, and I go in with the assumption that if anything goes wrong I'm the one on the hook.
 
#17 ·
I used to live in Hawaii, and a Cadillac owner who is with Army was shipped to Guam. There was only one Chevy dealer on the entire island (No Cadillac dealer there), and they simplydidn't want to work on his Cadillac. And his car was still under B2B warranty and premium care. He was calling Cadillac, GM and any other place you can imagine, and he got nowhere... I bet situation is much better in the mainland. But if a non-cadillac GM dealer doesn't want to work on your car, or if Cadillac doean't want to reimburse a non-Cadillac dealer's warranty work, there is very little or nothing you can do. You are pretty much at their mercy. That being said, excluding rural areas, usually we have multiple Cadi dealers close to large population areas or any other high traffic area. Where do you live?
 
#34 ·
the reason premiums are so hard to find, is failed marketing and pricing...lets use Lexus and BMW as an example...the premium is akin to the IS350 F-Sport and 330I M-Sport....it takes the F-Sport & M-Sport packages to give these cars respectively what is standard on ATS Premium (now called Premium Performance)...around here its hard to find an IS that is not an F-Sport or a 3 series that's not an M-Sport, so that is where Cadillac failed to increase awareness of this model....on the pricing front ATS Premiums are $50K cars....for that money you can get a CTS, XTS, and XT5 and almost a CT6....basically too much overlap in pricing....so I'm sure sales that could have landed on ATS Premium have been peeled off by the lure of a larger Cadillac for the same money and without the story that this is a 4 door Camaro in the air and on people's minds the result is this superb car is overlooked by customers and us dealers seeing no demand quit ordering them....it's why I don't order them anymore for our dealership
 
#36 ·
Exactly. GM's marketing is almost horrifically poor, and that extends to the alphabet soup approach to Chevy trims as well. Its so sad because it seems to have sunk what is probably the best sport sedan of its generation (not counting the track-rat versions). "Premium" simply has no personality and incredibly vague. Something I would associate with extra leather and wood... though not even as distinctive as "Denali" because "Premium" still sounds like a trim level that could be offered on, say, a Corolla.

The Premium is probably pretty close to what could have been an ATS Vsport, and they might have been better off with a couple more tweaks and giving it that moniker. In fact, it probably could have done with aesthetic tweaks alone, like blacked out chrome, being that the actual performance and capabilities already compare well against the F-sport, M-sport, maybe even S4 and C43.
 
#45 ·
^^^ I liked the 2nd Gen too. It was good looking and the bigger turbo motor had much more potential than my S/C car.

The 1st gen was like a go cart. Small, light on its feet, and very responsive with a 7500 rpm redline. I added an intake, headers, pulley, and ignition to it. It was pretty quick, especially in the early 1990s (I bought it used). My cousin bought it from me and still has it.
 
#49 ·
Few more cosmetic / tech things to think about that the ATS-V doesn't have compared to the ATS:

1. Lower LED lights that provide a much more complete look from the front
2. Lit door handles (not puddle lights, but actual lit handles) Picture
3. Red leather inside with carbon fiber that has red weaves
4. Adaptive cruise control

I think that's most of what comes to mind...
 
#50 · (Edited)
I own a 2017 ATS Premium Performance 3.6. Prior to that I had a 2014 ATS 2.0T AWD. The 2017 is an absolute gas to drive. Fast once it gets rolling, sharp handling, better seats and trim, a boatload of features that the base 2014 did not have. However, the one advantage the 2014 had was that from a standing start, it seemed quicker due to the torque coming in right off the bat thanks to the turbo. The first time I drove the 3.6 I thought it seemed slower from a dead stop. In reality it just needs a bit more throttle than what I was used to giving with the 2.0T and it is a very quick car though nothing in the league of an ATS-V. But I suspect for daily driving the Premium Performance might be a better choice than the V.

BTW: Back in '85 I bought a MR2 new. That little silver car was really like a go-cart and an absolute hoot to drive. Perfect car for the young single guy I was at the time.

 
#51 ·
But I suspect for daily driving the Premium Performance might be a better choice than the V.
I really wouldn't be surprised by that at all, and for more reasons than just comfort. I forget where, but I was surprised to stumble across a professional review that described the 2.0T as better than the -V for daily driving because it felt lighter and more agile. That of course will apply less so to the 3.6L.

Sweet Mr. 2! One of these days I'll have a home away from NYC where I can keep such wonderful quirkmobiles (not that my current ride doesn't fit the bill)...
 
#55 ·
Your ATS is nicely equipped. Before you go all in on a FE4 upgrade see if you can find one so equipped on a dealer lot to test drive and make sure the difference works for you. FE4 can provide better cornering but unless you already have some really good performance tires you will find better rubber adds more than the different calibrated springs and bars. It will stiffen up the ride and you will have to decide if the improvement when pushed to the limits in high speed cornering make the trade-off in normal driving worthwhile. I test drove a Z06 with the Z07 package before I ordered my Corvette and quickly decided that the slight improvement at maximum lateral G forces during cornering didn't offset the worsening of an already stiff ride from the standard FE6 suspension so I didn't go with the FE7 level suspension. MSRC can only tame so much suspension stiffness :)

If you are doing a suspension upgrade also research what Eibach offers for the car and see what they would recommend for your application. It may be preferable for you to the Cadillac components-just make sure whatever you get is both physically compatible and performance tuned for the MSRC shocks.

The premium RWD with MSRC and a good set of summer performance tires has excellent handling. My daughter and I drove up to Chicago yesterday for a Chicago Fire soccer match and I took the ATS because I didn't want to park the Corvette in the lousy gravel parking lots at Toyota Park. The ATS is very nimble at maneuvering in high speed traffic and it was a fun drive and an enjoyable match even though the Fire lost and were playing like half of the team was asleep through most of the match.
 
#56 ·
^
That's why I love ATS!
sumitagarwal


JTS97Z28 has an AWD premium ATS, which comes with passive suspension system. As a result it is not a big deal for him and his AWD ATS to switch from FE3 to FE4. But your RWD premium will have active suspension system. Changing suspension components will pretty much kill or badly compromise the adaptive suspension. And as a person who has owned an ATS with regular suspension and then a premium with adaptive, active suspension, I would definitely suggest keeping the adaptive system intact. It is a great suspension system.
 
#57 ·
Unlike the Camaro SCJ package the ATS SCJ package does not note any recalibration... has anyone ever gotten confirmation from GM on this?

In terms of parts it looks like it's just four cheap springs and two... sway bars? Shocks? From GM's photos and descriptions it seems inconsistent, and while I've seen the ATS springs described as FE4 I haven't found the other two pieces.

Presumably I could also just go to a dealership and ask them to add the package since it's a dealer add-on? And in doing so they would recalibrate if that's part of it?
 
#58 · (Edited)
Dealers usually don't re-calibrate beyond stock factory calibration. Reasons are 1- they lack the expertise to do anything beyond the standard procedures such as loading the software provided to them by the factory or following service manual flowchart, and 2- liability!

FE(X) refers to spring package, so I am not surprised to hear that the package is just springs with maybe stiffer sway bars. JTS97Z28 can comment on this more accurately than I can. That being said, although active components are untouched, variables such as stiffness of the springs have changed and the stock tune can get very confused and the adaptive suspension may not operate properly.
 
#59 ·
I agree with Ben about the importance of the MSRC system calibration. Here is a quote from Tadge Juechter (chief engineer Corvette platform) which is his response to a question on the Corvette forum about updated MSRC calibrations. Note where he states every variant of the Corvette has its own specific MSRC calibration for EACH of the driving modes so no calibration is shared between platforms with different tire/wheel combinations, spring rates, etc. I wouldn't consider an upgrade on a MSRC equipped vehicle unless the MSRC calibration is available for the new components.

From Tadge:

"I have read through almost all the threads on the Corvette Forum about the MRC aftermarket calibrations. Overwhelming is an understatement. This is a complex situation and deserves a proper answer, which isn’t short.

With Magnetorheological (Magnetic Ride Control/MagneRide/MRC), we continue to learn and improve as we develop our higher performance variants. Over the past year and a half new tools have been created to help us better analyze data recorded on the bench, on the road, and on the track. Utilization of this data analysis was significant during my tuning of the ZR1. While tuning the ZR1 I realized a revolutionary change that not only improved track performance but also ride quality and handling in Tour and Sport. A change so significant I felt obligated to not only roll it into future model years for all MRC Corvettes, but also make it available to all customers already in possession of a 7th generation Corvette with MRC. While I wish we could roll these out immediately for all, it takes a significant amount of work and time to execute each calibration. Tour, Sport, and Track for each Corvette MRC chassis package have their own individual calibrations. None are shared between any 2 variants. All must go the same extensive validation process as a production implementation. All will be part of the 2019 production fitment. Including the ZR1 I revised 21 total new calibrations by September, 2017. The cadence and roll out of the new MRC calibrations for Chevrolet Performance were determined in the order they were completed."
 
#63 ·
The ATS "Performance" suspension is not as aggressive as is the ATS-V suspension.
The ATS-V has an electronic limited slip not a mechanical limited slip.
The ATS-V's cooling is upgraded even more than is the ATS RWD Premium.

In realilty, the "relative level of overlap" between an ATS RWD Premium and an ATS-V is minimal. You will be getting ½ at best of an ATS-V for 2/3rds the price.
 
#64 · (Edited)
i wouldn't call it 1/2 for 2/3, i'd call it 2/3 for 2/3....ATS Premium is a damn fine sports car and every bit as trackable as ATS-V....just not at ATS-V levels

a couple finer points to consider:

  • at launch in 2013 this car would hit 60 in 5.2 seconds with the 6 speed auto...it has had both an engine and transmission upgrade since then giving it a torque bump and 8 speeds making it a sub 5 second car which is quick as hell...it's just not brutally fast like it's bigger brother...but that's ok it doesn't need to be
  • ATS Premium has a hidden track setting similar to the ATS-V's PTM modes (Performance Traction Management), it's called 'Stabilitrak Competitive Mode' and like PTM is accessible via a double tap of the traction control button while in sport mode

i've driven both in high performance situations ...and when at the limit the cars road feel suspension wise are very close to each other....another point to keep in mind concerning this is that MRC is dynamic, the harder you lean on it the harder it works, and it's magical how it always feels right, regardless of which of these two cars it's on ....

as far as LSD vs eLSD i'm on the fence with this one...both feel great, and have great traction compared to the base ATS with open diff using brake actuation ... also both fail exactly the same way when making right turns off the street into a parking lot entry when one side gets unloaded due to the ramp you get kicked in the back fairly strongly when the diff locks....

the eLSD i find spooky sometimes, you want the diff to be a silent partner helping you have the most fun/performance...sometimes the eLSD speaks up, this is when it aggressively torque vectors aiding you with turn in...this makes the front end on a rare occasion less predictable....basically you dive into a corner and settle in to ride the turn out, sometimes making a mid-corner throttle adjustment makes the car think you want to rotate faster...and the eLSD yells "MAKE IT SO!!" (at least in my imagination) and pushes harder on the outside and the nose tucks in hard...it's weird...it doesn't take you off line, but just when you think you have a predictable wash/slide in the nose you suddenly don't and the car feels like it found grip....the mechanical LSD is PREDICTABLE, PREDICTABLE, PREDICTABLE...which is nice, it makes you confident at the edges of grip...and makes the car nice and super light on its feet and extremely predictable managing the turn when you're at the point where you're steering with the throttle as much as the steering wheel....like i said i'm on the fence...with LSD IMO you have amazing predictability, with eLSD IMO it's probably faster and finds front grip through rear torque management

last point is... you are absolutely correct if tearing up the roads in ATS Premium is turning things up to 10, then doing the same in ATS-V is turning it up to 12 or beyond, it's bonkers.....this said, when you talk to hardcore car aficionados, sometimes they will tell you it's more fun to drive a slow car fast, than a fast car slow...i feel this perfectly applies to ATS Premium vs ATS-V...the former is way more accessible, meaning you can get into the fun zone easier in it than the V...in the V getting into that zone usually means going far beyond what's legal on the streets which detracts from the pleasure due to the potential consequences, and most of us don't have the good fortune of having a race track in our backyards.
 
#65 ·
I agree with pissedoffwookiee about eLSD, it can be a blessing and a curse and because it tries to do a lot more it can lead you into an argument between the driver and the control system. In a way it is like using the A8 in my Z06 in full auto during performance driving because at its best it will be in the right gear at the perfect time however the driver doesn't always know exactly when it will make that choice which is why most of us will go to full manual control of the A8 when pushing the car.

It and the display parameters created a lot of confusion when introduced in the C7 platform and GM's "e-LSD integration engineer" provided some useful insight into the system which is generally applicable to the system as used on any GM car.

By the way, for those of you doing your own maintenance on a eLSD equipped GM vehicle do NOT mistake the drain plug for the eLSD hydraulics with the differential drain plug. A few Corvette owners did this and it necessitated dealer intervention because the system has to be "exercised" using GM's tech tool to purge the air once the system is refilled with hydraulic fluid. The differential fluid CAN (and should) be changed like any other differential.

GM's engineer is quoted below:

"Jason Kolk answered:
eLSD is standard on all Stingray Z51, GrandSport, and Z06 models. The eLSD display (the bottom page in the Performance display group) was added in the 2015 model year to Corvettes equipped with eLSD. There are two pieces of information on the display, eLSD clutch coupling percentage value on top in yellow, and the slip percentage of the rear wheels on the bottom in white shown in the bar graph.

eLSD Percentage in the top/middle:
In the center there is an image of the car, two wheels and the differential. The differential lights up as the eLSD coupling increases. The value shown is a percentage of the full locking coupling capability, and it is the actual value reported by the actuator. When we calibrate eLSD, we work in units of torque. 100% corresponds to 2000 Newton-meters (1475 ft-lbs) of break-away torque (every 1% is 20 Nm (14.75 ft-lbs)). Said another way, while holding one wheel stationary it would take 2000 Nm of torque on the other wheel to make the clutch between the two wheels slip if the display read 100%. For reference a C6 mechanical differential clutch pack was roughly 120 Nm (88 ft-lbs). The actuator is very quick to respond and is able to change from open to locked (0 to 100%) 150 ms (.15 sec) in order to respond to any dynamic situation.

There is a lot going on behind the scenes in the software to come up with the eLSD coupling that you're seeing here. There are a number of algorithms that are running at the same time to collectively decide how much coupling is needed for the different vehicle dynamics situations that they each monitor and control. We have some logic to decide which one of them wins out or which ones add together to deliver the final command that you see on the display and feel in the car.

At the most basic level, the eLSD can have a subtle but profound effect on the handling of the car. We really consider it to be a 'base chassis' component. It's something that plays a big part in setting up the character of the car.
Off-throttle, more eLSD coupling adds stability, but too much can be a bad thing. The eLSD is connecting the two wheels so in a turn it's trying to slow down the outside wheel and speed up the inside wheel. In other words the eLSD clutch coupling is trying to oppose the direction that the car is turning, so setting this off-throttle level is pretty important to keeping the car feeling agile. In a steady turn this can help tune the amount of understeer the car has. In highly dynamic maneuvers, this results in something that we call yaw damping where it will reduce the rotation rate of the car.
When the driver is on-throttle, the eLSD clutch can shift torque from the inside wheel to the outside wheel. This has the combined effect of minimizing or eliminating inside wheel spin, but it also controls how much it feels like the car turns with the throttle. More torque on the outside and less on the inside will help the car turn - to a point, but that's the balance we're constantly searching for while we tune the software.

Each package is tuned individually so a Z06 won't have the same values as a Stingray Z51, for example. Automatic and Manual transmissions have different calibrations, and even suspension and tire packages like FE3 and FE4, FE6 and FE7 do differ from each other.

eLSD is fully integrated with the stability control and Performance Traction Management (PTM) systems.

Note that changing from Tour to Sport to Track has no effect on eLSD mode. eLSD mode does change automatically when the Traction Control button is pressed. No unique input from the driver is required.
eLSD Mode 1 is the standard mode when the vehicle is started. It is optimized for how torque is delivered with Traction Control active and off-power there is an emphasis on vehicle stability. Mode 1 is also used in Performance Traction Management Wet mode.
eLSD Mode 2 is engaged when both Traction Control and Electronic Stability Control are turned off. This calibration provides more nimble corner turn-in, and is optimized for traction out of corners.
eLSD Mode 3 is engaged when Performance Traction Management is in Dry, Sport 1 & 2, and Race modes. Off power this is a nimble calibration with similar functionality as eLSD Mode 2, however, it is integrated to work with Performance Traction Management when the driver is on power.
eLSD Mode 4 is engaged when Traction Control is selected off, but stability control remains on. Vehicle stability is still the priority, while allowing for optimized traction out of corners.
Here are some examples of what you may see if you watch this screen. I'll talk generally, so the numbers may not match exactly what you see, but the trends should be there:
Bleed events. The actuator needs to bleed small amounts air out of the hydraulics every few keys cycles to keep things operating consistently. As a driver you may see a couple of spikes to 100% at very low speeds while going straight. This is totally normal and can only happen in a relatively small range of steering on-center so you won't feel it in tight parking lot maneuvers.
Driving straight down the road, we have some speed based preload to add stability and on-center feel. This is going to be relatively small and you will only see a small amount around 10-15% at highway speeds. You'll notice that when you do steering inputs and simple lane changes that it drops down slightly and then pops back up when you are going straight again. This strategy is to improve steering feel and agility. We can be more open at low speeds than previous fixed clutch packs (C6 was fixed at 120 Nm (88 ft-lbs)), and then add more at very high speeds to add stability.
On larger throttle applies you will see eLSD clutch torque grow, and these could be the largest amounts of eLSD coupling that you'll see under normal circumstances. On track this could go as high as 40-50%. The goal of this algorithm is to maximize rear traction while cornering and tune the feel of how much the car is turning while you're on power.
The largest eLSD coupling will happen under very extreme lane changes and slaloms where we can nearly lock the eLSD clutch to add stability at just the right moments, but open back up to allow the car to steer through double lane changes at just the right times.
If you were to drive your car in the winter and start with one wheel on ice and the other on bare pavement, you may see clutch torque build in response the wheel on ice slipping to keep it under control and to maintain smooth acceleration.

Wheel Slip percentage on the bottom of the display:
The important thing to know here is that this slip display is not directly connected to the eLSD software. This wheel slip display has its own calculation and it's showing the average rear wheel slip compared to the average front wheel slip. It's not showing how much slip is occurring across the eLSD clutch (between the two rear wheels), even though I can see how a driver could make that connection. ` Think about this as showing how much rear wheel spin you're getting at the drag strip in a burn-out box, for example.

There may be rare instances where you see this display flicker when you first start to move or when you come to a stop. Don't be alarmed by that, it's function of the math behind the display when the numbers get really small."
 
#74 ·
^^^ Well it’s going to be built for fuel economy yes, but not during full throttle or spirited driving. The 2016+ with the 8L45 still goes into a performance algorithm during spirited driving and has incredibly fast up shifts at full throttle. I’m not just saying this because I have one, but I really do find it surprising that a ‘16+ 335hp LGX would be slower than the earlier models. The shifts are snap your finger fast, and it seems to keep it right in the power band. If it really is then I guess it would have something to do with hearing I don’t know.
I have a ‘17 3.6 premium and my dad has a ‘14 3.6 premium.....only problem is I don’t think he would be down for a race LOL. I would though ;)
Why do you guys say the newer ones are heavier? What weighs more?
 
#80 ·
Yeah what the heck could have changed back there to add all that weight? That’s where the battery is on both vehicles, but comparing the two vehicles there is literally nothing different that the eye can see by looking in the trunk, behind the trunk liner, or under the car. Weird.
I wonder if they were comparing identically equipped vehicles?
 
#81 ·
The 2017 had the GMPP exhaust as well (but I can't imagine that did anything), but otherwise they look as similar as you can get between the model years. Does anyone know how they did the Start-Stop? Dual batteries or some sort of capacitor system? If either of those is packaged with the regular battery, that could explain the corner weight.
 
#82 ·
Cadillac announced it was using a super capacitor system when they went to stop/start and I presume they stayed with it.

If someone has the back issues they can check to see whether C and D used as identically equipped as possible cars for those two years that provided significantly different weights. Simple stuff like a fuel tank that was automatically filled using a pump with a sensitive shutoff at a high fill rate vs a less sensitive pump with a slow fill setting could easily result in a couple of gallons of fuel discrepancy between vehicles. AFM certainly adds weight although I don't believe it complicates the exhaust like it does on some GM vehicles where additional sound modifying valves are present before the mufflers. A difference in wheels and/or tires between the two vehicles could significantly impact weight as would many options that not only add or subtract weight but also change the F to R balance.