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2004 cts 3.6L
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Discussion Starter #1
04 CTS 3.6L, I thought I've been through the hardest part of this car, replacing the engine with a newer engine. That was a piece of cake! With the help of this forum and members I put a 07 engine in an 04 with no problem what so ever. The car now has over 4000 miles on the new engine. No problems with the engine at all. The problem I have now is the passkey 3 locking out engine start and keeping key. I have read most of the posts. I know how to release key. I have had it to the dealer two different times. The car will start excellent for 3 or 4 weeks then out of the blue you rotate to start position and no turning over then service security system then you can't get the key out. What I am asking is for a true bypassing of the passkey system. I have read about using a remote start, by pass module but you still utilize the exciter coils etc. I want to bypass this system! It has gotton to we don't trust the car, you never know then it's wrecker time then the dealer for $100. per hr. please advise. Thanks Ray
 

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rayshound said:
04 CTS 3.6L, I thought I've been through the hardest part of this car, replacing the engine with a newer engine. That was a piece of cake! With the help of this forum and members I put a 07 engine in an 04 with no problem what so ever. The car now has over 4000 miles on the new engine. No problems with the engine at all. The problem I have now is the passkey 3 locking out engine start and keeping key. I have read most of the posts. I know how to release key. I have had it to the dealer two different times. The car will start excellent for 3 or 4 weeks then out of the blue you rotate to start position and no turning over then service security system then you can't get the key out. What I am asking is for a true bypassing of the passkey system. I have read about using a remote start, by pass module but you still utilize the exciter coils etc. I want to bypass this system! It has gotton to we don't trust the car, you never know then it's wrecker time then the dealer for $100. per hr. please advise. Thanks Ray
What about a push button start system. I dont know anyone who done this but it might solve your problems. Here is a link: http://www.gallotech.com/keyless-starter1.php

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=Push+button+start+security+system&_sacat=0&_from=R40
 

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06 CTS Sport/Luxury package
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Unfortunately, even with a PushStart system the problem is still gonna be there. Because the PushStart is still going to require a "by-pass". Which will be the same exact type of by pass as a remote starter.

Another unfortunately, it will still use the ring around the ignition key tumbler.

My only advice, is to reset and clean the harnesses going to the ECM. You obviously had to remove them when doing the engine swap, and something might of just gotten in there. Just use Mass Air Flow Sensor cleaner.

KOT
 

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Kingoftypos said:
Unfortunately, even with a PushStart system the problem is still gonna be there. Because the PushStart is still going to require a "by-pass". Which will be the same exact type of by pass as a remote starter.

Another unfortunately, it will still use the ring around the ignition key tumbler.

My only advice, is to reset and clean the harnesses going to the ECM. You obviously had to remove them when doing the engine swap, and something might of just gotten in there. Just use Mass Air Flow Sensor cleaner.

KOT
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[/COLOR]Ohhhh. I assumed that it wouldnt use the factory tarting system since it uses a push start relay/module and unit with fob sensing start up. I think it would be cool if we could remove the current ignition tumbler cylinder and completely replace it with a push start system
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I had found a company that is in Canada. He talks about the vats & the passkey system problems on GM cars. He has been selling modules for $150. that totally by passes the security system. He lists the cars he custom makes the module for. The list is long several Cadillac models & years, Chevy, Buick etc. Some years up to 2006 Malibu. He did not list the CTS so I asked and his reply is not at this time that I could make one for your car try back later. Another example, I have a friend at work that is installing a LS1 out of a 2000 Transam into a 85 Camaro. One car had the VATS the other has the Passkey. A company made a special harness to turn key the newer engine in the older car. This is the type info I'm looking for. I really appreciate the responses. Just like the newer engine in the 04 CTS I was told never happen but I kept researching and very good info from members on this BBS. and I have an 07 engine in an 04 and even the dealer could not tell even on the Tech 2. Ray
 

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What ECM did you use?

The original to the 2004 car, or original to the 2007 engine?

Was there any reprogramming of the ECM?

KOT
 

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I am guess you have a problem with either the key or the exciter ring as it takes it signal from the key. Now this is common on GM vehicles for going bad and a headache because they never all act up all the time. You need to get values from the system when it is working correctly and then compare them to the values you get when it is not working correctly and go from there. Obviously the GM dealership either is kicking you down the road or are not capable, or they would have recommended this. I at an independent shop do this to customers all the time to help figure out the problem.
 

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ngoodnight01 said:
I am guess you have a problem with either the key or the exciter ring as it takes it signal from the key. Now this is common on GM vehicles for going bad and a headache because they never all act up all the time. You need to get values from the system when it is working correctly and then compare them to the values you get when it is not working correctly and go from there. Obviously the GM dealership either is kicking you down the road or are not capable, or they would have recommended this. I at an independent shop do this to customers all the time to help figure out the problem.
Are you talking about the vats, where it uses a resistor? Because that is a totally different set up. With PassKey III+, it uses a RFID chip embedded in the key's grip. The "value" is set at the factory and can't be changed or by passed. A new key can be learned though, far easier process than the VATs.

KOT
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I understand about the older passkey2 being a resistor in the key shank that gets read. The passkey 3 has the transsponder in the key and the exciter coils around the ign sw. In the case of the business in Canada the man explains that he builds a circuit box for the passkey3 in some of the GM cars, he even lists the 06 malibu as one he makes. He has several cars listed but not the cts. In the case of my friend at work putting the 2000 LS1 which is a passkey system into and older camaro that the car system has a vats system with the resistance setup. He purchased an aftermarket wiring harness that allows you to put an later motel LS1 in an older car, turn key, not only the security part but gauges, fans etc. My friend took a peek inside of the little black box that the vats/passkey ties together and found a circuit that he said produces 30hz siginal and has a 555 chip. This what I would like. A box that produces the siginal that the ecm, bcm what ever is looking for. Thanks Ray
 

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Vats is a resistor style system were all you do is wire in the correct resistor to bypass the ignition key. Pass key III like you stated uses a transponder and an exciter ring which receives the signal. I was stating that he needs to take a look at the voltages on the various circuits that are related to that part of the system when it is working correctly and compare them to the voltages when its not. Then you can break down the problem to an area and then concentrate on that portion. I am assuming that there are no codes in the system, as this is an intermittent problem you have to think outside the SBD charts.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Really thought I answered your question sorry, I had used the original ecm off of the 04 cts. I hooked it up and the car startrd right up, I did not need to go to the dealer and get reprogrammed. After a few months of driving it started giving security problems and I had a wrecker take it to the dealer. They just reset with the tech 2. A few thousand miles later same thing. Ray
 

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Then there should be no issue between the ECM and the PK3+. Was just thinking a version difference between the two models years, but didn't warranty a huge change to the PK3+ system.

So like I said before, remove the harness from the ECM and spray both sides with electronic cleaner. Work them on and off a few times, spray them again, allow them to dry and reconnect.

KOT
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Sorry, I got called out of town for a few days, could not be helped. I did unlatch and pull both connectors on ECM mounted on bracket in front of passanger side valve cover. I sprayed both sides of the connectors with electrical spray. I hooked the battery back up, turned the key to on then to start, service security and icon (padlock) on solid no click or start to engine. I returned the key to on, could not turn to off to remove key. Unhooked battery cable again. used punch in hole in bottom of steering column to turn off & remove key. Same crap. Car has been down 2 weeks now. Ray.
 
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