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The Northstar Tuner
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I would never ruin a good block by installing time serts.
If you have a bad hole you need to repair it. You could destroy a block that has no problems by installing Timeserts just because.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
If i don t have a striped hole i could be ok using new bolts without time serts
because budget really tight .sorry about grammar punctuation.
 

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The Northstar Tuner
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You need to clean all the tread locker out of the holes. If you don't it can bind the treads and break them.
Next after they are clean you need to look for any signs of pitting in the threaded area.
You will need to look for broken threads on the bolts when you removed them or in the holes.
If the threads are good then don't install an insert. The Inserts just make the bolt bigger it is not like you are installing a nut down inside the block to grip.
 

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White Diamond 2001 STS
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Boy...I suppose that AJ is the expert on this (being a Cadillac technician), but I do want to point out that there have been REPEATED experiences by members on this board and another board where they didn't Timesert all the holes and the problem has returned. In the past, it was best practice to Timesert all 20 head bolt holes and you knew you were good for another quarter million miles.
 

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The Northstar Tuner
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Boy...I suppose that AJ is the expert on this (being a Cadillac technician), but I do want to point out that there have been REPEATED experiences by members on this board and another board where they didn't Timesert all the holes and the problem has returned. In the past, it was best practice to Timesert all 20 head bolt holes and you knew you were good for another quarter million miles.
When the treads are cleaned and they show no signs of damage you will be good.

Jadcock how do you get the treadlocker out of the block?
I tried to contact Locktite and asked the Wurth Rep.
I can not get an answer, but I have found two ways.
#1 I used adhesive remover in quart cans. (the body shop type)
#2 I own my own personal heated aquatic spay cabinet. The heat and water/soap must break it down, because when I run the cleaning tool down the threads it comes out clean.
 

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White Diamond 2001 STS
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I've always understood that the threads can pull with the bolt, when it's removed. In other words, part of the threads will break off with the thread locker. I've heard of cases where folks did not Timesert (one of all of the holes) and when the head bolts were torqued upon install, they stripped.

Maybe this was due to them not fully removing the thread locker, I don't know. ??
 

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I'd never do a head gasket job without timserting (OR NORMS INSERTING!! yeesh) all of the holes. It isn't worth my time having to do it again.
 

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95 Fleetwood Brougham / 01 DTS / 11 CTS Lux / 11 DTS Platinum
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The reason the head gasket problem occurs to begin with is that the threads are flawed in design and do not hold the bolts tight enough to prevent lifting the heads.

Additionally most of us also feel that this phenomenon is triggered prematurely by corrosion in the coolant system caused by poor coolant system maintenance.

Timeserting is a time consuming art but if you're going to take the heads off the engine your shooting yourself in the foot if you don't Timesert.
 

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SInce you did not remove the head bolts yet don't get too wrapped up in this question.

If you use a breaker bar there is really only one way you are going to remove the bolts, by unscrewing them. If the threads are damaged they are already damaged. You can tell the difference when you start unscrewing them.

Take it apart and carefully inspect each hole and bolt for damage as AJxtcman instructed. If there is NO evidence of damage you can probably reassemble without the inserts. If there is ANY evidence of damaged threads you better insert it.

There have been (over the last couple of years) guys who had the last bolt they were installing fail, some bolts fail, no bolts fail. I don't think they all really inspected the holes carefully. I'm sure they did a quick inspection but not sure how well they cleaned and inspected each hole.

After you get it apart let us know how they look. It might be a good idea to keep the bolts organized so you know which holes they came out of (at least til you inspect them). Some holes punched in cardboard would work well for this. Mark which head and which end of the head on the cardboard.
 

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White Diamond 2001 STS
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I guess I just don't see what you have to gain by NOT using the Timeserts. Surely a Timeserted hole is not more likely to fail than an already possibly compromised hole.
 

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95 Fleetwood Brougham / 01 DTS / 11 CTS Lux / 11 DTS Platinum
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Exactly. Why would you not do it when you're that far into the project?

I guess I just don't see what you have to gain by NOT using the Timeserts. Surely a Timeserted hole is not more likely to fail than an already possibly compromised hole.
 

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mikeylok13; said:
If i don t have a striped hole i could be ok using new bolts without time serts
because budget really tight .sorry about grammar punctuation.
Here's why he's trying to avoid them.

If you get a used kit and resell it for same cost you only have cost of inserts.

I haven't seen Norm's set used yet.
 

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The Northstar Tuner
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I guess I just don't see what you have to gain by NOT using the Timeserts. Surely a Timeserted hole is not more likely to fail than an already possibly compromised hole.
Exactly. Why would you not do it when you're that far into the project?
If you are not on the Norm's insert band wagon or you are at a dealer that has not used them yet. You would have possibly ruined the block for another repair. If the block has time serts in it and then head gaskets fail a second time you are screwed because you know that the inserts pulled free every time.
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Block #1 is in perfect shape and needs no inserts. You replace the head gaskets at 45k miles. at 130k they pop again. Now you can install inserts.
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Block #2 is in perfect shape and needs no inserts, but you put them in because you can. Now the head gasket pops at 70k and the engine is JUNK. unless you trust Norms inserts to go in after TimeSerts are already in. I do, but it would be up to the Tech who knows nothing about them.
 

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Block #2 is in perfect shape and needs no inserts, but you put them in because you can. Now the head gasket pops at 70k and the engine is JUNK.
LOL

A timesert repair is stronger than the existing threads. Period.

If a block in "perfect shape" with timeserts blows in 6k, it would have blown in 100 miles without the timeserts.
 

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LOL

A timesert repair is stronger than the existing threads. Period.

If a block in "perfect shape" with timeserts blows in 6k, it would have blown in 100 miles without the timeserts.
You really don't understand that it is just making the bolt bigger. It is not part of the block it is part of the bolt.:rant2:
 

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2006 STS V8 AWD, '95 Ford Ranger
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Until the current Norm's Insert fan club arrived on the scene, Timeserts, the approved and validated factory repair, were used by Cadillac owners to repair their head gasket and thread problems with only a few having to fall back to the BigSert scenario for the odd exception. Tool kits were traded around on the forum for years with almost no reports of failed repairs. Bbob supplied the vast majority of advice and everybody was happy. Somehow the world has shifted on it's axis by an amount sufficient to deem Timeserts no longer effective. My Dad had a saying that I believe applies to this situation, a good workman never blames his tools for something he can't do.
 
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