[kobeck]

I was just wondering about something. I have a 76 sedan devill, its a tank right? But how safe are these cars in a collision? Someone was telling me that they dont absorb the impact and actually are more dangerous than say a 2005 camry, lol.....I just cant believe that. I feel so safe on the highway with 5200 pounds on steele. And another thing, when I drive my wifes toyota I notice these little punks in their supped up Honda civics (you know the POS cars ones that have loud muffles) love to tailgate 2 inches from my rear, but when I am in the 76 caddy they all seem to stay away. I wonder why )))

 

[N0DIH]

Beyond the shadow of a doubt.

Remember, thet test the 2005 Camry against an precisely equal weight car. No more, no less. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. So if you hit a 2005 Camry into a brick wall, an immovable brick wall, the wall stays put, and the Camry crumples as designed. NOW. We bring in 5200 lbs of Cadillac. Things are no longer equal. As a matter of fact, it is nearly 2:1 greater. So when you hit the Camry at say 60 mph. The Camry sees a force of hitting the brick wall around 100 mph. Who wins? It isn't the Camry.

Now, is the Caddy safer to occupants? Maybe, most likely yes. IF you are wearing seat belts and such. The car will prevent passenger compartment intrustion, you won't find yourself with the steering wheel in your stomach, you won't find the front tire in your groin, but you won't have a cushion on your face when it meets the steering wheel (if it does, likely @ 100 mph it will). Unless you have the rare 1976 Air Bag option. I have seen on 1976 98 in a Junkyard with it.

So, yes, you WILL have the upper hand, your car will protect you much better overall. NOW, if you hit a car that HAS all the crumple zones and air bags and such that weighs as much as you, then it will be a harsher imact on you, as not so much on them. Like a Suburban or something.

Look in boneyards, the little cars are death traps, big cars are not.

They (They, Inc) say that if you have $1000 more to spend on a new car, get the next higher model, not the fancy options. Your life may depend on it.

Now, what are the safest cars? Years ago I found some site that had some crash test ratings. 92-93 Bonneville/Electra/LeSebre/Deville were like 9.8, and the 93-04 Z28/TA were rated 9.9. Cars like Toyota Camry, Volvo, etc were in the 7's and 8's. So, according to this site showed a significant improvement in safety in the larger GM cars than the larest Toyotas and Hondas.

Smaller isn't better, never will be. Larger is, as your car will hit the smaller car with greater force than he can hit you. Makes you proud to be a Cadillac owner doesn't it???

 

[kobeck]

:crying2: Wow, thank you for such an informative and detailed answer! Yes I am happy to have my land yacht now
People today just drive too wrecklessly. At least they do here in New York city. They gamble with their lives by weaving in and out of traffic and tailgating etc. My biggest fear is that one of those idiots will rear end my wife in the camry(she drives very slow) and cause her to loose control-flip over. She wont drive the cady though. too big for her. Come to think about it, I dont think I have ever ever seen a 1970s sedan deville belly up on the side of the road

 

[Eldyfig]

And another thing, when I drive my wifes toyota I notice these little punks in their supped up Honda civics (you know the POS cars ones that have loud muffles) love to tailgate 2 inches from my rear, but when I am in the 76 caddy they all seem to stay away. I wonder why )))

I know what you mean. When I would drive my big 72 Olds 98, others kept a safe distance. When they tailgate you like that, it is their way of trying to get you to race I guess.

 

[DopeStar 156]

The way I see it, anyone who wants to hurt me has to get through 6 and a half feet of engine before they can get to me. I feel much safer in my Cadillac than I do nay other car. Perfect example, I huit a deer with my caddy a year ago. If I had hit that same deer with my 99 Malibu I'd have been holding it in my lap but the way the Cadillac is shaped the deer never went past the grille.

 

[I~LUV~Caddys8792]

The way I see it, anyone who wants to hurt me has to get through 6 and a half feet of engine before they can get to me.

haha yeah, those Broughams have L O N G hoods!

 

[N0DIH]

Now, the smaller cars do accident avoidance better, as in better braking, better manuverability, better handling. The 76 Cad doesn't do a fantastic job at any of those

BUT you can get some good accident avoidance with good power too. So, build up that 500!!

 

[Night Wolf]

The way I see it, anyone who wants to hurt me has to get through 6 and a half feet of engine before they can get to me. I feel much safer in my Cadillac than I do nay other car. Perfect example, I huit a deer with my caddy a year ago. If I had hit that same deer with my 99 Malibu I'd have been holding it in my lap but the way the Cadillac is shaped the deer never went past the grille.

the front end on these are are amazingly tough.....

the thing to watch out for though, is getting rear ended. The rear frame rails need to go up so high to clear the rear axel, the it acts as a crumple zone, if you get rear ended hard, the frame folds at the top of the hump and the whole quarter panel buckles... quickly totaling out the car.

Thats why when guys use the '77-'92 for a demo derby... besides being hell to watch... if it is an experienced driver, he knows to ram with the *front* of the car, because the frame is so freakin solid.... of course they notch the frame (again if they know what they are doing) so when it gets hit in the back, it'll fold up and not down....

I woudln't reccomend notching the frame on a DD though but that is just something I think about.... I know if it gets rear ended hard it'll get totaled out, and really be too much work to fix (weld in all new quarter panels) so I would personally buy it back and strip it of the engine/drivetrain, complete interior and any body panels I can save.

 

[Night Wolf]

the '76 DeVille is probably one of the safeest cars on the road today

sure it'll transmist more of the energy to you... but... who cares, at least you know when you hit a Camery you can drive yourself home, broken wrist and dragging bumper included ok, maybe that was harsh...

I get into debates alot about crumple zones. I fully understand why they are there, how they are SUPPOSED to work, and what good they do. But I don't like them. Air bags are another thing, they are good. BTW I woudln't get a 70's air bag, they were known to blow somebodys head off.... little too powerful

for some reason, I can't explain what I am trying to....

if there was a brick wall and a Camry was going 60mph, the car would crumple, absorbing the impact, air bags would go off etc...

honest, if it was the case with a '76 DeVille... I would bet the car would go *thru* the wall. That car was not intended to fold up, and it'll resist alot, with 5,200lbs behind it and 60mph.... it'll take alot more then a single layer of bricks to stop it.

I have a good example if why I believe what I do with air bags and crumple zones.... kinda fits this too, it involes an '84 DeVille (big body, RWD) and a '94 Camery.... the ONLY reason why the results are the way they are is because the Camry was doing 100mph and the Caddy was stopped.... now ya'll know about faster objects doing more damage? well lets just say that if it was the other way around, it would be wayy different... also going against the Caddy is the fact that the Camery hit dead on center... best part of the car to hit (most strongest) the Caddy? it hit the most extreme left front edge... all that energy only got absorbed by half the car.. I mean the freakin passenger lights were un touched and the passenger fender only had a crease from the twisting force, while the driver side fender was brought to the size of a GEO Metro fender.

 

[DopeStar 156]

Haha I totally carried that bastard deer for a few feet in the grille housing. I broke all four of his legs with the chrome bumper and sadly shattered the plastic grille but those two steel cross pieces protecting the radiator did their job well. It almost looked like the Fleetwood "caught the deer in it's mouth and spit it out." Not too bad though, I just ended up buying a new front clip and grille, everything else was totally fine.

 

[Night Wolf]

Haha I totally carried that bastard deer for a few feet in the grille housing. I broke all four of his legs with the chrome bumper and sadly shattered the plastic grille but those two steel cross pieces protecting the radiator did their job well. It almost looked like the Fleetwood "caught the deer in it's mouth and spit it out." Not too bad though, I just ended up buying a new front clip and grille, everything else was totally fine.

I remember when that happened.... you spent wayyyyyyyy too much to get brand new stuff too

ah well, shes looking real nice

 

[caddycruiser]

the front end on these are are amazingly tough.....
the thing to watch out for though, is getting rear ended. The rear frame rails need to go up so high to clear the rear axel, the it acts as a crumple zone, if you get rear ended hard, the frame folds at the top of the hump and the whole quarter panel buckles... quickly totaling out the car.
Thats why when guys use the '77-'92 for a demo derby... besides being hell to watch... if it is an experienced driver, he knows to ram with the *front* of the car, because the frame is so freakin solid.... of course they notch the frame (again if they know what they are doing) so when it gets hit in the back, it'll fold up and not down....
I woudln't reccomend notching the frame on a DD though but that is just something I think about.... I know if it gets rear ended hard it'll get totaled out, and really be too much work to fix (weld in all new quarter panels) so I would personally buy it back and strip it of the engine/drivetrain, complete interior and any body panels I can save.

Hmm....I've always wondered why Brougham/Fleetwoods I've seen rear-ended seem to fold up COMPLETELY like a pretzel in the back, especially when compared to a similar frontal impact.

 

[N0DIH]

The idea of crumple zones is sound. BUT, you have to understand to that they are engineering for a certain conditions. None of which are designed for high speed crashes, only specific conditions like 45 mph or less, to soften the impact some. But honestly, when you hit something like a 76, the car will just allow too much to intrude into the pass compartment. Like the Cadillac's front bumper....

 

[Night Wolf]

ok, I'll post the pictures... I will try to keep the story simple.
9 years ago my mother sold her AMC Eagle and bought a 1984 Sedan DeVille. The car had 34,000 miles heated mirrors, rear defogger, factory radar detector, auto dimming head lights, doors locked automatically in drive, fuel data center... basically this car had it all but a freakin moon room, brown on brown. Yes, it had the HT4100, at the time we didn't know about it, so we got it anyway, that was a blessing because if she was in anything smaller, she wouldn't be here today. As I think back, I remember the car, she only had it *4* months.... having owner 2 Chevettes and the Eagle before that (old rusted out Ford LTD wayyyy back in the day) this car was a freakin mint luxury car as good as they come.
3 days after the accident, my mother was to start work at a new location (IBM) making literally *double* what she was getting at the time... which was pretty good for the year.
So anyway, here she was driving home from work, decided not to get coffee as she normally did (only if....) because then she would be late in picking me up at my fathers.... my father was... to put it simply... a pain with certain things.
So she sees this car swerving from side to side of the road, so she slams on the brakes to bring the car to a stop... while doing so, brings the car all the way to the right side of the road (NOT what I would have done) So she remembers the car swerving from side to side, kicking up dirt all over, then kind of stright out and hit the brakes... but at the last second, she saw the car turn stright for her. She said she kept thinking, omg, my new car... its ok, it'll just dent the bumper or something and it'll get fixed...
Well, my mother is short, and keeps the seat VERY close to the wheel... even if she quickly reached over and pushed the power seat control back, she woudln't be as bad as she was.... she was wearing her seat belt.
He was doing over 100mph, judging by the skid marks, the cops estimate he was doing 60mph when he hit her, she was completly stopped. Force x Mass = Acceleration? by the Camry going even 60mph, it was a whole bunch more force then the Caddy going 0mph.
To top that off, look at the angle of the hit... near center for the Camry.... extreme left side of the Caddy... imagine if it hit the right side? she'd be fine.
Ok, so her ankle was broke in 4 places or so, broken wrist, that is from the accident itself. The worst part? well, because she sat so far up, and because the car was hit at such an extreme left angle, it actually started to crumple up the passenger compartment.... now if this car had a "normal" crumple zone, it would have been "used up" halfway thru the event! it was the solid steel of the car that kept it together. All of the following would have been prevented by an AIR BAG (hence why I like them)... ok, her face smashed into the steering wheel...bam... the whole left side of her face was shattered... broken nose, broekn cheek bone, jaw shifted, new now has a plastic eye socket, whip lash.... worst of all.... she now has a frontal brain injury that can NOT be fixed, she is unable to work (been on long term disability for 9 years) she gets very bad migrane head aches everyday.... she can not live a normal life like she used to. The only way she gets money is because at IBM she put into this fund where if something like this happend, she will get 66% of her pay.... for the past 9 years she has been almost poverty.
The Camry driver was 18, had his little sister in the car, she was 12 or something. *they had air bags* all she got was a broken wrist, she wandered into somebodys house. He got a broken wrist as well and was unconcios (sp...its late) for 3 days, but has since been fine.
They had bare minimal insurance, they owned nothing. It was his uncles car, who owned nothing. My mother got nearly no money. The money they gave her for medical expense *supposedly for life* didn't even last a year.
Durring the accident, when she was still in the car... she had a near death experience... I don't know if I should go into much detail being that it is a public forum and all, but I will simply say, she was at the entrance of heaven and spoke to God himself.... she had the option of going or coming back, but chose to come back (for me.... rough situation with my father and what not)
Anyway, had she been in anything smaller, even if it had an air bag, she woudln't be here... I firmly believe even if the stupid friggin seat was moved back, then her head would not have slammed into the steering wheel... she woudln't have the brain injury, which is 90% of the reason she can't work, and is the way she is. Steam Cell research is going, but they can't figure it out yet.
I drove on this road alot back in NY, so I could see where it happened and stuff. *IF* it was me, I woudln't stop in the middle (or the side) of the road as she did... I would pull off into somebodys drive way, a feild or whatever... I would get out of that area. *OR* I tend to use the throttle more then the brakes when I am in an emergency situation, I feel like I am more in control... another option for me would have been to floor it (speed limit on that road was 55mph) and as the cars got closer, use some evasive actions to avoid the car, or if the worst happens, the Caddy would hit the camry, but instead of being stopped, it would be doing around 70mph (if accelerating from the start) at that point, the Caddy would inflict alot more damage to the Camry and the outcome would have been totally different... they *could* then say my mother was speeding... so she gets a ticket or whatever, but atleast she'd be able to like a freakin normal life. Thats why when I am driving the '79 DeVille, you'd better hope I am not put into a situation like that, because I sure aint stopping 5,000lbs of Detroits finest.
Ah well, here are the pictures.. kinda crappy, because it is a picture of a picture, but oh well. look at the Caddy, the whole chassis literally twisted, very hard to explain. That was a nice car too, really is ashame, I guess I kinda have a soft spot for HT4100-powered big bodys for that reason... dispite the pathetic engine, it was smooth and quite, and had more power then the Eagle... and especially the Chevette, but that car in general was as mint as they came, 34k origanal miles, it was a NY car but always garaged... it only lived a short 4 months. She then bought the '89 Brougham to replace that, and has been driving that car for 9 years now.... she just dosn't feel safe in a small car, she liked the '05 Sentra we rented, but she said she didn't feel safe in it and didn't like the small trunk... otherwise she liked it alot.

 

[Night Wolf]

Hmm....I've always wondered why Brougham/Fleetwoods I've seen rear-ended seem to fold up COMPLETELY like a pretzel in the back, especially when compared to a similar frontal impact.

yup, ever have the chance, take a look at the frame.... makes you think... what were THEY thinking....

 

[N0DIH]

Which is why I like to keep rear trailer hitches on my cars.... At least more steel in back, and to help distribute the impact load into both sides. Yes, I know it can potentially do more damage and render the car totalled, but if it saves the occupants of the car, I am all for it.

Hmm....I've always wondered why Brougham/Fleetwoods I've seen rear-ended seem to fold up COMPLETELY like a pretzel in the back, especially when compared to a similar frontal impact.

 

[Night Wolf]

The idea of crumple zones is sound. BUT, you have to understand to that they are engineering for a certain conditions. None of which are designed for high speed crashes, only specific conditions like 45 mph or less, to soften the impact some. But honestly, when you hit something like a 76, the car will just allow too much to intrude into the pass compartment. Like the Cadillac's front bumper....

EXACTLY!

in the text book, they are great.

but high speed, multiple hit accidents... SUCH AS, running off the road, into the forest and hitting a dozen trees (as my cousin did in his late model Trans Am... him and his friend walked away) or a multi-car pile up on the highway.... once the crumple zone is used up, its now solid tree vs firewall.... at 50mph. OR say you hit something larger then another Camry... I don't mean an F-150 either, those total out Camrys as it is... say an International school bus or a Peterbuilt....well damnit, in that case I'd better have as much steel around me as possible.

 

[Night Wolf]

Here are the pictures:

 

[Night Wolf]

Honestly, I don't feel "safe" in my '93 Coupe... hard to explain....unibody, plastic fenders, thin hood... ya know, I have seen them fold up pretty easy in the junkyard. I do have driver side air bag though... but I dunno, I don't feel like I will get serisouly hurt, but I feel like the car will fold up very easy.

The Oldsmobile OTOH, even though it is a sister chassis... just felt so much more solid, dispite the rust and rot... I mean it felt like if someone crashed into me, I'll just back up, bumper dragging and all... when I side swiped the telephone poll, thats exactly what happened, backed right out and kept going... that car, dispite weighing less and stuff, felt more solid.

Then of course the '79... I feel like I can go thru a brick wall if I have to... I just worry about getting rear ended as I mentioned above... but unlike a HT4100 big body DeVille or a 307 Brougham.. I feel safer in the '79 because of the 425... its not a race car, but i know if I was put in a situation (such as what my mother was in) where I need to move fast, I know the 425 will pull thru for me. In fact I really like driving that car, and FL drivers suck. Witht he '79 DeVille, I like that car for what it is, but the emotional attachment is nothing compared to the '93 Coupe... meaning if it ever got totaled in an accident, I would buy it back, save what I can, but simply find another one as they are a dime a dozen... don't get me wrong, I love that car... but if I had to choose one of my 3 cars to keep me the safest in an accident, it would hands down be the '79.

Here are the rest of the pics.

 

[Night Wolf]

oh yeah, the kid driving had a 104* fever and was taking some medication that says DO NOT OPERATE A MOTOR VEHICLE and blacked out with his foot to the floor on the gas pedal. the reason why the car was swerving side to side was the 12 year old girl was trying to keep the car on the road, she kept trying to wake him up, when he came to at the last few seconds, he slammed on the brakes.... WHY he went from going stright down the road to turning right into my mothers stopped car (as evidenced by the tire marks) is still not known.

HAD this been some sort of company vehicle, UPS or whatever... my mother would have gotten 3 million dollars just like that, but these folks owned nothing, in fact the laywer said it would cost more in laywer and cort fees then she would ever get if she tried to garnish his wages for life.... no one in their family owned anything, had a job of value or anything, she get hardly a thing from their insurance company, and was able to sue her insurance company for a bit more... all the money she got was used up in medical expense before the 1st year was up....

yet a lady goes to Mickey D's spills hot coffe on her lap and gets 10 million dollars... aren't we in a f*cked up world?