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2009 CTS-V Sedan, 2000 Viper ACR
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Discussion Starter #1
Here is what I am offering. I recently purchased a stock 2009 CTS-V sedan and I have access to a mustang Dyno. If vendors are will to ship there product directly to the shop where the Dyno is. I will do a baseline pull. Then install each CAI one at a time and do 2 pulls with each allowing for proper cool down before each run to reduce variables.

Any manufactures in CAI interested?

I will return all CAI's after the test and post Dyno sheets here.
 

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~2011 CTS-V Coupe & 2013 SRX~
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ViperACR said:
No interest? It's a chance to back up your HP claims.
WoW... This would be great i'll be keeping an eye on this post to see who steps up.. I would personally "invite" each vendor via email with a copy of this link attached.. Sometimes there just not hanging around the forums. :)
 

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This will never be a valid test unless they just looked at the decreased value of Vacuum on the snout itself. To many things manipulate the results.

The reason for this is the change in air fuel ratio from the changed airflow thru the mass air meter.

So, for horsepower gains, you would have to "Tune" each intake back to the first testing results via fueling.

So, there would be human variance/error involved in the test.

I can easily move the mass air meter element to a spot that produces a leaner mix and would show a massive gain difference in a test like this..


True results are shown with the amount of restriction the engine has been relieved of.

Then you have another issue of, the fact that the more modifications that effect horsepower you have will change the results of the cold air kit.

The more horsepower you are making, the more incoming air that is required, so a kit that makes 1hp stock, may make 9hp at 650hp..


For the airbox test on "who is better".

I went by:
Weight of full unit. "Less is better"
Amount of bends. "Less is always better for cleaner signal and airflow corruption"
Pressure drop from front to rear. "shows that internal diameter of tubing is sufficient for applications horsepower level.
Internal dimensions of the tubing itself. ID not OD. "Larger id is better"
Filter media and cfm flow capability at 0 miles and at 10,000 miles. "good to show life cycle of the filter itself in the general use of your application from clean to every day use"

Temperature at idle during 80deg day, and length of time it takes to cool back close to ambient while driving at 0mph,10mph, 30mph, 60mph..

Last but not least:
Pressure reading from the Snout on the top map sensor in 4th gear from 2000rpm to 6100rpms. " The closer to 100kpa proves it to flow better"
 

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2009 CTS-V Sedan, 2000 Viper ACR
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Discussion Starter #5
The test will take place in Tampa Florida. I will install and test each one right out of the box. What they make is what they make.
 

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~2011 CTS-V Coupe & 2013 SRX~
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ViperACR said:
The test will take place in Tampa Florida. I will install and test each one right out of the box. What they make is what they make.
To be fair, disconnect the battery between each install and let each one relearn... Any chance of testing the D3 D-Tronic MAF module? It's claimed to add hp/trq for those not wanting to go the "full tune" route.. i am curious to see hiw good it does. Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #7
The shop that the test will take place in has experience with high hp cars. The owner knows what he is doing when installing a CAI and operating a dyno or even tuning it. He has been doing it for over 15 years.

Wait4me....do you want to send one of your CAI's to be used?

Any manufactures want to step up?
 

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Your testing method is worthless and flawed. It will prove nothing to anyone and will not present valid gains in real life situations.

Resetting the battery is only erasing the learned spark trims and fuel trims. They will learn back to the settings quickly.

Again, Air fuel ratios will be changed in between each kit. It will skew data..

I could easily set up a intake with a 12.5 air fuel ratio that would make it show a lot different than everyone elses. Safe? no, but it will dyno higher...

As for the Maf module brought up in this thread. It is just a box that is Skewing the mass air meter signal and leaning out the mixture of fuel.

You can get them cheaper by doing a search for Mass air meter translator. That or just getting a real tune that address more than just tricking a sensor to change fuel ratios..
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Why is it worthless and flawed? These are supposed to be out of the box bolt-ons. It seems like your implying that I would cheat. I dont have a hidden agenda in this other than finding which one one produces the highest hp on a stock car.

If you want a tuned version....well that would require a hand held programmer. Diablo? Would be willing to send a programmer along with it?
 

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Why is it worthless and flawed? These are supposed to be out of the box bolt-ons. It seems like your implying that I would cheat. I dont have a hidden agenda in this other than finding which one one produces the highest hp on a stock car.

If you want a tuned version....well that would require a hand held programmer. Diablo? Would be willing to send a programmer along with it?
A better flowing airbox will require tuning to take advantage of the added airflow and the layout of Mass air meter placement. With no tuning im saying that the test you are wanting to do is flawed as it will not show TRUE real life performance of the unit.

I posted in the previous thread exactly what would need to be done to correctly Show what intake is better than others.. It is a VALID real world test that proves what outflows "is better".

Just swapping an intake and dyno run is not going to prove anything other than it skewed airfuel ratios.

I have a ton of dyno runs between each and every intake available on the market. With only changes to air fuel ratio to show real life gains. I have already talked about this stuff previously on the board...
 

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'09 CTS-V, 3K miles & '87 Turbo Buick, 29K miles
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What?
Are you inferring that these claims aren't 100% true and factual?
I'm surprised.


03-19-2009: 04:19 PM: (JTHennessey) True Cold Air Intakes – Instock!: “True Cold Air intakes – Instock”: Want to add a quick 15 hp? This is the solution. Completely replaces the factory intake system with our true cold air intake. Last week, Nick @ American Racing Headers was able to test this induction system and was able to show a gain of 18 rwhp!!! Awesome setup. Images attached to this post

05-21-2009: 09:06 AM: “New Era CTS-V Cold Air Intake”: Mike @ New Era tuned a 09 CTSV and tested our intake on it. It made 451 rwhp and 437 rwtq in -stock- form and it picked up 34 rwhp and 28 rwtq with the New Era 09 CTSV intake untuned. After Mike tuned it, it made 505 rwhp and 470 rwtq.

05-14-2010: 03:11 PM: KPE Cold Air Intake: Designed to draw cold air and fit with the factory -engine- bay trim. The first CTS-V intake to feature injection molded plastic tube and large filter protected in sealed powdercoated aluminum box. Makes 24 RWHP on a -stock- motor and even more with other modifications.

06-06-2010: 06:32 PM: Airaid 250-253 - Best prices – Free Shipping!: Airaid Cold Air Intake System for the 2009-2010 Cadillac CTS-V 6.2L Supercharged -V8- includes a modular intake tube, air dam and highflow washable air filter. This System will give you 28 HP and 43 FT/LBS of Torque with out a Tune.

07-31-2010: 04:55 PM: KPE: Re: All KPE CAI owners………Instead of using our -car-, we grabbed a used 2010 CTS-V straight off the lot from our local Cadillac Dealer with 7980 miles which was bone stock. We then installed the KPE intake, and they ran the -car- again on the dyno..………….they took the average of the three runs which proved an 11 hp increase. They did have a run that showed +20 but the average at full temperature was +11.

07-31-2010: 06:53 PM: newcadman: Re: All KPE CAI owners: As indicated I took my 2009 V -auto- V (7000 miles) to the same (dynojet) dyno where it was previously tested when it was bone stock…………… Three pulls were made with the now installed KPE cai. End result, the -engine- made 8 MORE rwhp on its best pull than it did on its previous best bone stock pull.
 

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If you are implying that I am making excuses, that is 100% incorrect. I posted how you should be testing when you do the test to make it a valid test that will do a valid comparison.

Any other way is not going to prove anything.
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
I don't think the tuner would have any issue tuning each one, it will just take a lot more Dyno time. I will have to figure out how much he will charge me for that. If he agrees to tune each will your send you CAI?

I was trying to keep the cost down for bolt-on parts.
 

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If you pay the 490 I will send you one. When you test it and go thru all the kits, you can send it back and I will refund you back $490.

If you follow the testing procedures that I have posted, which are valid repeatable tests, mine will score higher than every single kit on the market that I am aware of. I have tested them all in the way described several times and on multiple cars and at multiple horsepower levels from stock to 800hp..
 

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Ill send you a airraid and a new era as long as you pay for them up front and ill happily refund you once you return them. Do you plan to do this on a stock car or with basic ctsv mods? Also include a modded stock air box, I've seen a auto make 66x whp with a modded stocker.
 

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I'd go with Jesse....he's been nothing but a gentleman whenever I've called with questions....seems to know the cts-v as if he designed it himself....nuff said
 
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Now all you need is a D3 intake. Try calling CTSv Racing in NY, They might be willing to participate.

I would also like to see how the d3 d tronic holds up to its claims.
 
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