HotRodSaint said:
I'm not pro-union. And I don't want to irritate you any further. But I think unions have run their coarse in America.
Why does the UAW have to pick a fight every year with one of the auto makers? The rest of the country is being laid off or taking pay cuts during a recession, but the union keeps seeking more and more. Which is great, we all want more. But you shouldn't complain when a Japanese car (made in a non-union US factory) is cheaper and has better quality.
No, you can't blame the union workers for poor quality. But wouldn't it be wiser to let automakers spend their money on R&D and plant upgrades to keep us competitive rather than forcing them to keep old and outdated factories open just so we don;t have to relocate a union member to another state?
I'm for Federalizing Unions and then dimantling them. They were good for the workers back before OSHA and trial lawyers. I find more self value in the ability to negotiate one on one for the worth I alone bring to the company.
There's really not much point in arguing this. I've found that changing someone's opinion on this, either way, is about impossible. But I'm going to address some misconceptions that many people seem to have about unions in general, and the UAW specifically. I have no expectation of changing your view, but you might find a different opinion, and some facts, interesting.
No offense, but I don't think you know how collective bargaining works. The UAW doesn't pick a fight with anyone every year. Or any year. The "fights" I think you're referring to are contract negotiations. It's become fairly standard practice for the big unions, and the massive companies, to pick one manufacturer to negotiate the new contract with it's unions. The UAW may negotiate with GM this year, the next time the contract comes up, it may be Ford. Or Chrysler. Same with the URW and Firestone, Goodyear, Goodrich etc.
And a quick little side-track about the URW. Who do you think insisted on shipping all those defective tires to Ford ? And then trying to cover it up ? The URW line workers ? Or those saints in corporate ?
Back to the subject. Lay-offs and my personal greed. I'm originally from NE Ohio. And I started in a small shop the year after I got out of High school. One thing led to another and I ended up working for a GM outsource Die shop. On 9/11/01 my wife and I watched the Towers fall while she gave birth to our daughter. By early December 60% of the skilled trade workers in Cleveland were either unemployed or on short time. I was kind of lucky. We only got cut from 55 hours to 20 a week. So, I think I know a bit about getting layed off or taking a pay cut. It's not all that much better there now. Think I moved to Florida because it's a hot bed of manufacturing ?
Now as for the union wanting more and more all the time. For at least the last decade, and I'd lean more toward it being twenty years, the unions haven't been pushing for more. They've been trying to stop the bleeding. Every renewal, the manufacturers insist on more give backs. Lower wages, shorter hours, less health care, higher co-pays, less vacation, fewer holidays, scaled back retirement, elimination of prescription insurance for retirees. You name it, they demand the workers give back more. Have you been paying attention to what's happening in the Airline industry ? The Feds gave the carriers $Billions of all our tax money and the companies demanded the workers give back tons anyway. They're never satisfied. But you begrudge us what we have left. And God help us all if the Fed ever gets their grimey claws on our retirement funds. The same group of vultures that ruined Social Security is the one you feel best able to dismantle unions. Will you promise to pay all my bills after I retire ?
Florida is a "right to work state". So unions don't exist here in the traditonal sense. Let me give you one miniscule example of how companies take care of their beloved workers here when no one is standing up for them. We have no hot water to clean up with to go home. They insist that since it's Florida, room temperature water is good enough for us. By the way, we also have no heat. It doesn't get that cold here, right ? Sure am grateful to OSHA and the Trial parasites.
Anyway, I thought I'd give you answers to some of your questions and comments. I guess I should have stuck with buying Chevrolet. The other owners din't feel so threatened that people like me might buy one. But the traditional Cadillac owner seems to see me as an idiot that was just good in shop class. It just amazes me that there's so little respect here for the people that actually built the cars you people claim to love so much.
Hey don't worry, for some reason I don't really feel like posting here after today. I guess I got here too late to get into a really cool clique.
Bob
