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2010 CTS-V
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Discussion Starter #1
I'm sure this was mentioned in the other thread, I thought I'd mention it for those not keeping up with that thread. I don't see the article on line yet, but just got the hard copy in the mail.

Main knock on the V is the crappy auto trans. V out accelerates and brakes the others. But, came in last on skid pad. V is also criticized for being too heavy.

I don't understand why the mags used an auto instead of the manual. This is a sport coupe after all. It's not unreasonable to assume sport coupe drivers might enjoy rowing for themselves.

Ira
 

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'09 Sedan Black Raven M6; '14 Sedan Phantom Gray A6 Graphite
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Well yeah it's too heavy,.... it's a car in a totally different class. I guess in everyone's haste, the mags couldn't wait for the AST-V (or is it gonna be the ATS-V,... not sure) before compare 3's, C's and R5's with something out of Caddy's stable. And while I'm guessin', I guess they were similarly afraid to compare the heavier, more appropriate german coupes. I'm also disappointed they brought a knife to a gun fight. I guess they were 'trying' to keep things even since the Audi and the M had automated boxes. But just like some in here, the mags don't seem to understand that a manual is a manual and an automatic is an automatic. The V auto is a mix-match,... even though it changes gears by itself like the Audi and the M. Duh! So I'm left assuming that comparing evenly matched cars has lost it's popularity. Still,... like you I believe that if the had been a manual, it would have done better. I'm certain it would have bested the Audi after reading what they thought of it. If the only significant thing they can find wrong with it is the transmission option,... I'd call that a win. Even in our community, the only thing the auto is good for are 1/4 mile rips (the auto can't be beat on the strip) and driving while drinking coffee and eating a bagel in the morning while driving to work. Oh wait a minute,... I forgot,... the wife!
 

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2011 CTS V Coupe, 2007 Escalade ESV
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A disgusting analysis. I did not buy my V with the idea I would be saving gas. (I drove my V to Austin, Texas recently & got 19 MPG driving 75 on a 400 mile round trip), and the other pointless "deducts" on the scoring system, were comfort, rear seat confort, engine NVW (what is that?), transmission etc. The V is the real winner, with good pricing, the quickest, the best looking and a bullet proof engine set up that can't be matched. I have an automatic, and love it. What about future repair cost and maintenance? There was no mention of service cost? I would not want to pay for servicing the other two vehicles.
 

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05 Srx/09 Cts/10 Cts V
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only thing i did like better from the pics from the audi and bmw were the front seats. i do not know how comfortable the seats on those vechiles are but the recaros "really" arent the most comfortable out there. they hold you in well but comfort is lacking IMHO.

the other funny thing is the V got knocked on a quiet exhaust and supercharger (lol) for $1,000 put a new exhaust on and an intake and the V sounds AWESOME............ and still $7,000 cheaper then the M3

i really want to see the m5/6 vs V coupe vs mb comparioson.
 

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2010 CTS-V Auto Black Raven/Ebony
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This review was already discussed at length in the other thread about the Car & Driver Comparison. Yes, the V Coupe is heavier and larger than both cars and probably competes in a different class (M6 anyone?), but at the end of the day, the focus on the V Coupe's interior quality and achingly slow automatic transmission are valid points of criticism that are echoed on these forums all the time. So, again, GM bring on the dual clutch manual/automatic.
 

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2011 V-Coupe (600+rwhp) ; Black Raven, Manual, Recaros
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651 Posts
A disgusting analysis. I did not buy my V with the idea I would be saving gas. (I drove my V to Austin, Texas recently & got 19 MPG driving 75 on a 400 mile round trip), and the other pointless "deducts" on the scoring system, were comfort, rear seat confort, engine NVW (what is that?), transmission etc. The V is the real winner, with good pricing, the quickest, the best looking and a bullet proof engine set up that can't be matched. I have an automatic, and love it. What about future repair cost and maintenance? There was no mention of service cost? I would not want to pay for servicing the other two vehicles.
I think this was specific to the Coupe and not the sedan. I read all the articles and comparisons and I agree that they should have made it smaller/lighter (maybe more like that Cadilac concept car) but I think the interior is nicer than both the M3 and the Rs5. If the V-Coupe was 300-400 pounds lighter with 305s in the rear, then the car would be in Z06 territory.

I ordered the coupe and I'm looking looking forward to getting my car in the next month or so. However, I ordered manual and I'm happy I did. Since I can't make the car lighter, I'll just change the pulleys, go with AR headers, a tune, D3 springs to lower the car, and 305.30.19s (don't want 20s). This should certainly make a nice difference...
 

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2010 CTS-V, 2008 C6 Z51, 2010 ML 450H, 2007 BMW 335i
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Even in our community, the only thing the auto is good for are 1/4 mile rips (the auto can't be beat on the strip) and driving while drinking coffee and eating a bagel in the morning while driving to work. Oh wait a minute,... I forgot,... the wife!
They were comparing an auto against an auto. The auto has been proven over and over again to be quicker than the manual in the V. They stated that the transmissions in the other two cars were better. Not a big deal. Also your last comment there was ignorant and made absolutely no sense. In your opinion the auto is only good for those things. Thankfully not everything thinks that way.
 

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2010 CTS-V, 2008 C6 Z51, 2010 ML 450H, 2007 BMW 335i
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What about future repair cost and maintenance? There was no mention of service cost? I would not want to pay for servicing the other two vehicles.
FYI, The BMW comes with free full maintenance.
 

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2010 CTS-V, 2008 C6 Z51, 2010 ML 450H, 2007 BMW 335i
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only thing i did like better from the pics from the audi and bmw were the front seats. i do not know how comfortable the seats on those vechiles are but the recaros "really" arent the most comfortable out there. they hold you in well but comfort is lacking IMHO.

the other funny thing is the V got knocked on a quiet exhaust and supercharger (lol) for $1,000 put a new exhaust on and an intake and the V sounds AWESOME............ and still $7,000 cheaper then the M3

i really want to see the m5/6 vs V coupe vs mb comparioson.
The M3 is priced the same as the V. Both are 70k in the real world with options. Almost identical, check out both sites. Also the M5 vs V comparison was done about 6 months ago in M & T. The V took 1st! Good read, check out the link I posted in the other discussion (M3 vs RS5 vs V).
 

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2010 CTS-V, 2008 C6 Z51, 2010 ML 450H, 2007 BMW 335i
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191 Posts
only thing i did like better from the pics from the audi and bmw were the front seats. i do not know how comfortable the seats on those vechiles are but the recaros "really" arent the most comfortable out there. they hold you in well but comfort is lacking IMHO.

the other funny thing is the V got knocked on a quiet exhaust and supercharger (lol) for $1,000 put a new exhaust on and an intake and the V sounds AWESOME............ and still $7,000 cheaper then the M3

i really want to see the m5/6 vs V coupe vs mb comparioson.
The M3 is priced the same as the V. Both are 70k in the real world with options. Almost identical, check out both sites. Also the M5 vs V comparison was done about 6 months ago in M & T. The V took 1st! Good read, check out the link I posted in the other discussion (M3 vs RS5 vs V).
 

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'09 Sedan Black Raven M6; '14 Sedan Phantom Gray A6 Graphite
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They were comparing an auto against an auto. The auto has been proven over and over again to be quicker than the manual in the V. They stated that the transmissions in the other two cars were better. Not a big deal. Also your last comment there was ignorant and made absolutely no sense. In your opinion the auto is only good for those things. Thankfully not everything thinks that way.
Whoa, whoa, whoa,.... in no way was my comment meant to offend anyone, the least of which our auto owning members. My apologies if I did. My last comment was just restating something we here in our community have been agreeing on for some time. That is,... the auto is quicker than the manual especially in a straight line, but the manual connects you more with both the road, and more importantly, with the car. We've ended that debate long ago consuming many threads in here. We've also commented many times about the convenience of the auto over the manual, especially as a daily driver and in a family environment where the wife might a co-driver. Granted, the wife comment was meant to be light-hearted, but nonetheless, the comment have been made and most can relate to it. The last problem on earth our cars have to deal with or explain away is speed and quickness,... no matter what transmission is comes to the party with. It was the other stuff we find ourselves explaining away,... other stuff like the dated automatic transmission GM gives us as an alternative to the Manual Box. Ironically, our Tremac Manual gets better scores than the 6 speed manual boxes fitted to the BMW.

But here's where you're wrong,... the Caddy was the ONLY automatic in the comparo. The BMW and the Audi were equipped with manual boxes,... automated manuals to be precise. You have to come to grips with the fact that there's a different between an automatic transmission and a manual transmission that changes gears by itself,... or if you like, automatically in some automated fashion. Most of us think that this difference played a major role in the outcome of both the MT and C&D articles,... at least I'm convinced it did. But please don't mis-understand my probable poor choice of words,... the auto V ain't no slouch. The record around 'The Ring' was set with an auto V,... I'm not lost to that and I doubt any of the rest of us are. But for this comparison, the mags dug deep to point out all of the CTS-V Coupe's shortcomings,... and at the top of this list was the automatic transmission. You have to admit, when compared to BMW's and Audi's automated manual boxes, an old school hydraulic planetary slush-box ain't gonna get it. And I don't think that that's a dig at GM's Hydramatic specifically,... most old school slush-box prolly would have gotten the same treatment at this time. Save maybe MB's 7 speed automatic. Most agree it's one of the best on the planet.

My only point was to suggest that instead of attempting to match the level of human interaction needed to change the gears, a more leveled playing field would have been achieved by attempting to match the type of gears being changed.

Again,... my apologies if I came off wrong and offended anyone!
 

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1975 Seville; 2004 CTS V; 2011 CTS V Coupe
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The car magazines generally pick which vehicles to "compare" that any car enthusiast sees as transparent bias from the start. Writers are enamored with "import" cars, reporting a predetermined agenda that comes to the conclusion based on their original intent. This is why I always decline to participate in "surveys" professionally developed by a person having a psychology degree with emphasis in survey development (manipulation!).
'Our Survey on XXXSUBJECTXX proved that 84.2% of those participating (manipulated) agree with our (unavoidable) conclusion.'
HOWEVER, I will continue to subscribe, as there is information to gleen from their data by ignoring the scoring points designed to support their conclusions. :lies:
 

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4-door Escalhate, '08 Corvhate Z06, Ford DuraHate Diesel.
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A disgusting analysis... The V is the real winner, with good pricing, the quickest, the best looking and a bullet proof engine set up that can't be matched. I have an automatic, and love it. What about future repair cost and maintenance? There was no mention of service cost? I would not want to pay for servicing the other two vehicles.
A little defensive. The V isn't the winner in either magazine shootout actually, but I'm glad you enjoy your car. And as mentioned, service for the BMW is free.

...at the end of the day, the focus on the V Coupe's interior quality and achingly slow automatic transmission are valid points of criticism that are echoed on these forums all the time. So, again, GM bring on the dual clutch manual/automatic.
+1. Interior quality, slow transmission, no DCT option.

They were comparing an auto against an auto. The auto has been proven over and over again to be quicker than the manual in the V. They stated that the transmissions in the other two cars were better. Not a big deal. Also your last comment there was ignorant and made absolutely no sense. In your opinion the auto is only good for those things. Thankfully not everything thinks that way.
+1 Auto vs auto seems fair to me. The V's auto isn't as good, move on.

FYI, The BMW comes with free full maintenance.
I think the '11 V Coupes come with maintenance as well now. Good call Cadillac.

Good article too. Everyone is defensive of what they own, so no surprised that several here are butt-hurt over the Motor Trend and C&D articles. Surprisingly, I will leave it at that.
 

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4-door Escalhate, '08 Corvhate Z06, Ford DuraHate Diesel.
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The car magazines generally pick which vehicles to "compare" that any car enthusiast sees as transparent bias from the start. Writers are enamored with "import" cars, reporting a predetermined agenda that comes to the conclusion based on their original intent.
You speak with such certainty about automotive journalists and their ethics, agendas and professionalism; are you one, or do you just pretend to know it all?
 

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2010 CTS-V, 2008 C6 Z51, 2010 ML 450H, 2007 BMW 335i
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Whoa, whoa, whoa,.... in no way was my comment meant to offend anyone, the least of which our auto owning members. My apologies if I did. My last comment was just restating something we here in our community have been agreeing on for some time. That is,... the auto is quicker than the manual especially in a straight line, but the manual connects you more with both the road, and more importantly, with the car. We've ended that debate long ago consuming many threads in here. We've also commented many times about the convenience of the auto over the manual, especially as a daily driver and in a family environment where the wife might a co-driver. Granted, the wife comment was meant to be light-hearted, but nonetheless, the comment have been made and most can relate to it. The last problem on earth our cars have to deal with or explain away is speed and quickness,... no matter what transmission is comes to the party with. It was the other stuff we find ourselves explaining away,... other stuff like the dated automatic transmission GM gives us as an alternative to the Manual Box. Ironically, our Tremac Manual gets better scores than the 6 speed manual boxes fitted to the BMW.

But here's where you're wrong,... the Caddy was the ONLY automatic in the comparo. The BMW and the Audi were equipped with manual boxes,... automated manuals to be precise. You have to come to grips with the fact that there's a different between an automatic transmission and a manual transmission that changes gears by itself,... or if you like, automatically in some automated fashion. Most of us think that this difference played a major role in the outcome of both the MT and C&D articles,... at least I'm convinced it did. But please don't mis-understand my probable poor choice of words,... the auto V ain't no slouch. The record around 'The Ring' was set with an auto V,... I'm not lost to that and I doubt any of the rest of us are. But for this comparison, the mags dug deep to point out all of the CTS-V Coupe's shortcomings,... and at the top of this list was the automatic transmission. You have to admit, when compared to BMW's and Audi's automated manual boxes, an old school hydraulic planetary slush-box ain't gonna get it. And I don't think that that's a dig at GM's Hydramatic specifically,... most old school slush-box prolly would have gotten the same treatment at this time. Save maybe MB's 7 speed automatic. Most agree it's one of the best on the planet.

My only point was to suggest that instead of attempting to match the level of human interaction needed to change the gears, a more leveled playing field would have been achieved by attempting to match the type of gears being changed.

Again,... my apologies if I came off wrong and offended anyone!
No problem, I just hate when people hate on autos. I see though now that it wasn't your attention to do so. :highfive:

You're absolutely right when comparing the transmissions of BMW/Audi to the V. The DCT in the M3 is a great transmission and I think we're all hoping that GM improves upon this much needed trait in upcoming V models. Its amazing to see what Jessie's moderate tune with these cars do to their overall 60ft times.
 

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2010 CTS-V, 2008 C6 Z51, 2010 ML 450H, 2007 BMW 335i
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191 Posts
I'm pretty sure the 2011 Caddys come with free maintenance up to $50k miles; I think this includes the V-coupe as well.
I heard the same. I was just responding because someone was curious to what the overall maintenance cost of the M3 was. It's free!! Just like the V in 2011...yes....I should have waited a few more months!
 

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2010 CTS-V, 2008 C6 Z51, 2010 ML 450H, 2007 BMW 335i
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191 Posts
Good article too. Everyone is defensive of what they own, so no surprised that several here are butt-hurt over the Motor Trend and C&D articles. Surprisingly, I will leave it at that.
Agreed. I think the M&T article was well written. I stuck with them when they took the V over the Jag/M5 and a close contest with the E63. No reason to wander now. They really praised the V and touched upon an excellent point, in that its amazing to be discussing a Caddy in the same sentence as these other cars. Cadillac is relevant because of the V and that's a huge point!

Now the upgrades need to be adhered too and implemented. If so, we'll have a car that OWNS anything close in the price bracket!
 

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'09 Sedan Black Raven M6; '14 Sedan Phantom Gray A6 Graphite
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Again for those who haven't been listening (hint: mugatu22 & V&Vette),... the CTS-V Coupe was the ONLY automatic in that shootout. The ONLY ONE!!! The BMW and the Audi were manual transmissions rigged to shift thru their manual gears with less to no human input using automated gear shifting schemes. Period! My God men,... stop announcing to the world that your collective brains are stuck in neutral! Maybe I should say,... P for Park!
 

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2010 CTS-V Auto Black Raven/Ebony
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Again for those who haven't been listening (hint: mugatu22 & V&Vette),... the CTS-V Coupe was the ONLY automatic in that shootout. The ONLY ONE!!! The BMW and the Audi were manual transmissions rigged to shift thru their manual gears with less to no human input using automated gear shifting schemes. Period! My God men,... stop announcing to the world that your collective brains are stuck in neutral! Maybe I should say,... P for Park!
I don't find your claim that the M3 had an "automated" manual to be very convincing. BMW sells the M3 with a true manual six-speed (and it's a great manual transmission) but BMW gets $2900 for the M Double Clutch Transmission that was used in the test.

Regardless of nomenclature, the fact remains that dual clutch manual automatics are superior technology. That's why they are used in race cars as well as the most advanced sports cars. The V's lack of that option in 2011 is the primary reason why the V is beginning to suffer in comparisons with other sports cars. Should GM make the mistake of releasing the V in 2012 without a DCT option, the car will no longer have any credible claim to being the best sports sedan in the World.
 
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