[AAIIIC]

On the track, I used to see oil temps of about 240. But with the cooler, I haven't seen above 225.

How big a cooler are you using? Honestly, I would have expected a bit bigger difference. Then again, at 240F, you're really not in the range where a cooler is needed.

I have my radiator fans set to come on earlier than stock and during the summer (80 deg F) my coolant and oil both run about 180 deg, with the oil cooler fan off.

That's a bit low. You want your oil to be above the boiling point of water so any entrained water is boiled off and vents out of the system. The 225F you're seeing on track is about perfect.

I'm also looking into a sandwich adapter that only allows 10% of the oil to pass to the cooler until 180 deg, then it opens to allow all of the oil to route to the cooler.

As crankedupforit said (and I've posted here before), Mocal makes a thermostatic oil cooler take-off that bolts to the block. Not sure what brand of sandwich adapter you've been looking at, but Mocal makes thermostatic sandwich adapters, too - I've had one on my Moostang for years now. (Strangely enough, the SP1CT for 13/16" threads ('04 and '05, I think?) is $170, but the SP1GT for 22mm threads ('06 and '07?) is only $97. WTF?!)

Back to the Oil Cooler.
~ Wouldn't a dry sump system be better?? . . . Food for Thought.

Depends on your definition of "better". A dry sump system is a whole nuther level of $$, fabrication, etc.

Here's a few ideas Adam/Pisinuoff. The fittings should be 10AN for the best flow and should include a Mocal thermostat made for LS engines (see link).They are the cleanest simplest solutions IMO. The lines should be pre cut to fit. Also I wouldn't get carried away with to many rows either. Here is the link for the thermostat.

http://www.improvedracing.com/product_info.php?products_id=33 Check out the mounting pics.

The mounts should be stainless steel the lines should be routed so the whole setup is nice and tidy. You put something like that together and I'll be your first customer. I think this could come in at a pretty attractive price. Just don't see the need for the fan and all. My .02

I concur with all of the above.

 

[AAIIIC]

I use -8AN fittings and did not see any increase in oil pressure. I'm sure -10AN would flow more, but I'm not sure most of us need that much.

Why/how would you see an increase in oil pressure by adding a restriction? Did you mean decrease? I'd be surprised if the bearings aren't now seeing less pressure due to the -8AN lines. If you search around forums with people that open track or road race their cars a lot you will find that -10AN is generally considered the minimum size you want to use. My Mustang's setup is -10AN, and the setup I'm putting on my Subaru (a little 2.5L engine, with 2/3 the oil system capacity of our LS motors and a lot shorter distance for oil to travel) is also -10AN. I strongly encourage you to reconsider the -8AN lines - I really thinking you're increasing the risk of bearing damage.

My current mount in my car is aluminum, but stainless would not be a problem ...

Actually, I guess that would be one thing I didn't concur with on crankedupforit's post. There's really no reason to use stainless steel. Aluminum brackets will work just fine and weigh less, which is a good thing when you're mounting something way out on the nose of the car.

The dimensions of the plate and fin cooler are about 9x9, excluding the brackets.

Roger that. What brand is the cooler?

FYI - The '07 has different threads than the '06.

I couldn't remember if it was '06 or '07 when they changed, and I was too lazy to go find the oil filter thread in which that was just discussed last week.

 

[AAIIIC]

Yeah, I meant decrease. :thepan: I stare at the oil pressure all the time and the pressure did not change more than a couple psi. My pressure at idle is still in the low 30's and it's in the 70's at high rpms. Maybe I don't notice much because my pump has had work done to it? I'd still feel safe if it were down to low 20's at idle. I'll call the tech support of the manufacturer tomorrow. They have -8AN fittings on the cooler itself. I wonder if the plates in it will flow enough to support the -10AN fittings and hose. If the cooler will support it, I have no problem switching to a -10AN setup.

It could be that your pump is the difference - those numbers sound fine. It would be interesting to hear what Derale has to say.

Here's a bit of info from an oil cooler discussion over on corner-carvers.com: "It's not about the volume of oil in the system, but about flow. Because of greater cross sectional area and reduced parasitic wall drag, an AN10 line will flow more than 60% more fluid than an AN8 line for an equal length and pressure." That's a pretty significant improvement.

 

[AAIIIC]

Re: Mocal oil cooler thermostat

Just to be sure I understand, you're saying that a conventional sandwich plate style oil cooler take-off won't work, right? Like this style?

Or are you saying that with headers installed, this LS-specific Mocal adaptor won't work?

 

[AAIIIC]

Re: Mocal oil cooler thermostat

Looking back, I see you had previously linked to the LS-specific adapter in another thread, so I'm assuming that's what you're talking about. The installed pics on the site you linked to show how far it sticks out, which I'm guessing is the problem.

 

[AAIIIC]

Re: Mocal oil cooler thermostat

The spin on sandwich plates with the built in thermostat require remote oil filter ...

I'm not sure I follow you there. Mocal makes sandwich plates with the t-stat built in, like I linked before, and the filter just sits below the sandwich plate. I just figured that style wouldn't fit into the somewhat restricted space we have because the t-stat portion of the sandwich plate protrudes out from the body of the plate.

I was trying to get away from the inline thermostat because you need a place to mount it and it carries some oil in the lines when it is closed.

Not only that but it adds to the cost of doing all this. An extra $30-40 since you have to buy 2 separate parts, and then another $30-40 extra because you have to buy 4 additional AN fittings.

 

[AAIIIC]

Re: Mocal oil cooler thermostat

I have a Mocal thermostat plate sitting at home, waiting to go on my Subie. When I change the oil on the V again in the next couple weeks I'll eyeball the fitment (the thread on the adapter is different, so I can't actually bolt it up, but I can just hold it in place to see how/if it fits). Looking at pictures of the oil filter area again, I'm pretty sure the thing just wouldn't fit, which would explain why LPE and Mocal created their LS-specific parts.

The sandwich plate actually bolts in place - the adapter piece gets tightened with a wrench on in place of the oil filter, if that makes any sense. You can see the hex head in the link I posted earlier. Subarus (among other cars) come with a factory oil-to-water cooler that mounts between the block and filter and uses the same sort of adapter to hold it in place; I've never heard of anyone having a problem with that coming loose.

But anyway... I agree that the LPE/Mocal adapter that bolts on above the filter is a slicker solution, and I'll probably end up with the same setup you've got going, cranked, since I'll have Kooks installed in the next couple weeks.

 

[AAIIIC]

Re: Mocal oil cooler thermostat

Yeah, the FAQ is contaminated with some sort of virus. My Symantec quarantined it, but I still had to reboot to get out of IE. Not good.

 

[AAIIIC]

Re: Mocal oil cooler thermostat

I just figured that style wouldn't fit into the somewhat restricted space we have because the t-stat portion of the sandwich plate protrudes out from the body of the plate.

I changed my oil over the weekend and confirmed that the sandwich adapter (my spare Subaru one, but should be the same size as any other Mocal adapter) is just too big to fit in our cramped oil filter location. So basically the LPE or Mocal LS-specific adapters are the way to go.

 

[AAIIIC]

Re: Mocal oil cooler thermostat

The Derale piece looks like it could be nice, but the ports are only 3/8" NPT, which is a little small (equivalent to only -6AN). Not the end of the world, I guess, and looks like that might be the easiest option to go with, but it's a shame they couldn't at least go to 1/2" NPT ports.

crankedupforit, I got your PM, but your PM box is full, so I couldn't send you a reply.

 

[AAIIIC]

Re: Need help with oil cooler

Since you're new to the V community and asking about an oil cooler, I have to wonder if you're getting the erroneous oil temp readings that are a common problem, particularly on the '04 and '05 cars. Check this thread for more info.

Now, assuming that's taken care of and you still want an oil cooler, crankedupforit laid out the obstacles pretty well. This has been discussed a number of times (see here or here, for example), with links to where you can get the parts and everything, so I'm not sure what searching you did that didn't turn up any info.

Obstructing the airflow won't be an issue, and particularly the PS cooler has nothing to do with it. If you look at where the PS cooler is mounted you'll see it's not obstructing the airflow at all - it's tucked up behind the bumper beam, and isn't even mounted in the airflow.

 

[AAIIIC]

Re: Need help with oil cooler

I have an '04 -V with BB headers and put an oil cooler on. I sourced all my own parts from racerpartswholesale. I tried to use the Mocal remote thermostat and Lingenfelter adapter plate. However, there is really no good place to mount the thermostat on a V. The most logical spot was above the steering rack and sway. But I gave up when I saw the new LS adapter with built in thermostat. Even with headers it has about 1 -1/2" of clearance.

Would definitely like to see some pics of your setup when you get a chance. It sounds like the B&B headers must have more clearance near the oil filter than the Kooks do.

Now the results: I just ran the set up at Road America on Monday. I still saw temperatures on the display of 305 - 315F. Lower than last year by 20F. However, keep in mind that this is the temp in the pan coming off of the pistons. The cooler circuit is after the pickup and filter. The only true temp is at the cooler. You can put a factory sender on the adapter and I would recommend it. I have not done this yet. I do a lot of highway driving and last summer saw oil temps typically 275 to 300F. This summer, it never went above 255F. Therefore, I know its working well.

That tells me your oil temp indication is AFU, which is pretty typical on the '04s and '05s. If your oil temps are the highway were truly 275-300F then the engine would've eaten itself long ago. Take a look at the Sticky thread in the General Discussion section, which spells out a couple of grounds that can be cleaned up in order to improve the situation. I'm still not sure my oil temperature indication is correct, but it's at least better than it was before - now I sit in the mid-220s on the highway rather than 245-250F.

 

[AAIIIC]

Re: Mocal oil cooler thermostat

I might have found a thermostatic sandwich plate option that will work. For the '04-06 cars (with the 13/16"-16 threads on the oil filter) the Earl's 503ERL might work. With the Mocal thermostatic sandwich plate, the thermostat part is opposite the inlet/outlet ports, which means the thing bulges out in a way that you can't fit it up in our rather restricted oil filter location. But as you can see in the Summit listing, the Earl's adapter has the thermostat bulge on the same side as the inlet/outlet ports, so I think it would fit.

Now, I'm pretty sure that still doesn't help those of us with headers, but I'm throwing it out there for the non-header types. I need to get under my car again and put fresh eyes on the header/filter/adapter clearances to see if I think it would be do-able. At the same time I'll be looking for potential remote filter mount locations.

 

[AAIIIC]

Re: Mocal oil cooler thermostat

I confirmed that the Earl's 503ERL will not fit with Kooks headers. I still think it's a nice piece - seems to have better/cleaner machining than the Mocal SP1 series adapters I've seen (and I have one of those sitting in my garage, so it's easy to do a side-by-side comparison).

 

[AAIIIC]

Re: Need help with oil cooler

Have you installed a factory sensor in this location? Will an 04 stock sensor work in this location, or would a new sensor have to be purchased and use an external gauge?

The oil temp sensor on the CTS-Vs is integrated with the oil level switch on the passenger side of the pan. I'm not sure why they did it that way, as the other LS motors use a 12mm-1.5 sending unit that mounts above the oil filter, like so. The Mocal LS-specific adapter has a bung for that 12mm-1.5 sending unit, since the Mocal piece installs in place of the stock sending unit bung thingy.

That bung thingy will fit on the V's engine just fine, and you can order the Vette/F-body sending unit and a wiring pigtail from your friendly dealer. Doing some research online it appears that pretty much all GM temperature sending units (oil, coolant, whatever) use the same temp vs. resistance curves, so I think the Vette sending unit will read out correctly. I tested the Vette sending unit and my stock sending unit at room temperature and in my freezer and they had the same resistance. I would like to have tested them at some higher temperatures, but I don't really have any way to do so (too lazy to figure out how to make a fixture to hold the sending units in boiling water so I can check their resistance), so I'll just be hoping it reads properly. We shall see.

I have the bung and sending unit installed on my car, and just need to figure out the wiring. I got some wiring diagram printouts from my '05 from the dealer tech at Lindsay that always works on my car, so this is something I'll be attempting soon. I also plan to temporarily wire up an Autometer gauge, with the sending unit mounted in the external oil thermostat I'll be installing with the oil cooler loop, so I'll have another way to look at oil temps to compare.

 

[AAIIIC]

Re: Need help with oil cooler

I've only got hard copies, and no scanner to convert to electrons.

I stopped believing my gauge at the first events I did. My oil pressures were fine, coolant temperatures were normal, so to me that was proof enough that the oil temp indication was garbage (since it was pegged at 329F).

 

[AAIIIC]

Re: Need help with oil cooler

You definitely do NOT need to order the whole damn oil pan! Dealer parts guys kill me with stuff like that! The sensor bung (which is called a "cover" on the receipt) is 12551587, and the accompanying gasket is 12611384. The temp sensor is 12608814. The wiring pigtail that goes along with the sensor (and has about 14" of wire coming off it for you to splice to whatever) is 88987993. (gmpartsdirect.com shows that as "brake master cylinder reservoir hardware", but my receipt from Lindsay shows it as a "connector".)

Let me know what you worked out on the wiring. I just haven't had a chance to look at it this week - maybe on Sunday.

 

[AAIIIC]

Re: Need help with oil cooler

Oh, I figured it was just a standard connector. I pointed out the unusual naming just so anyone else that happens into this thread and tried to order the parts wouldn't be confused.

Although I don't have a scanner, I realized I could just take pictures of the diagrams I got from the dealer. So, here's the harness connector for the oil temp/level sensor. (Note that these are for an '05, so it's possible there are different wire colors or routing on other model years.)

And here's the basic wiring diagram. I left that full size (3.1MB) so the labels would be readable. Since it's so big I didn't want to post it, so I'll just leave it as a link.

What I don't have is the diagram for the connector at the IPC. The oil temp signal goes to terminal 26, but I don't know where that is. And I'm not even sure where the IPC "box" is so I can access the connector - hopefully I don't have to pull apart the dash to get to it! I don't want to connect to the existing wiring at the stock sensor because I think something in the way that wiring is routed (either the signal or the ground) is the source of the high oil temps. I want to bypass that and go directly to the IPC connector (or just short of it, so I can maybe do a switch like you're looking to do).

 

[AAIIIC]

Re: Putting together oil cooler kit... have some Q's / need some advice

Mocal is good stuff. That's the same size as the cooler I've got, I think. I still haven't installed mine, need to get to that before launching back into the open track season this year.

As for which way to mount the fittings, I've seen that debated a number of times, and I'm not sure there's really a "right answer".

- Some people will tell you that if the cooler inlet and outlet are pointing down, then you'll get air trapped in the cooler and thus at least some of the cooler won't be doing it's job. However, in my junkyard scavenging, I've seen lots and lots of OEM transmission coolers or oil coolers mounted with the inlet and outlet pointing down, so I don't think that's really a problem.

- Some people will tell you that if the cooler inlet and outlet are pointing up, that the cooler will never drain when you change the oil. But others will say that the cooler is siphoned out. I've seen OEM coolers mounted with the inlet and outlet pointing up, too, so I don't think that's a concern. (Although I do think, based on my gut feeling, that the longer the hoses are, the more likely it is that the siphon effect won't be strong enough to suck the cooler dry.)

- I'm pretty sure mine is going to end up mounted with the inlet and outlet pointed to the side. I've read differing comments about that orientation, too, based on whether the inlet or outlet should be mounted higher. I'm not sure it really matters, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

My intention is to mount mine hanging down from the radiator core support. The back of the oil cooler will basically be right against the front of the condenser up on the passenger side. That plan may not survive contact with the enemy, though, so we'll see.

 

[AAIIIC]

Re: Putting together oil cooler kit... have some Q's / need some advice

Here's my mount. I attached to the PS bracket on one end and used this flat bar on the other. I pulled mine back off and painted it black (high temp paint) to conceal it.

That's not gonna work - it doesn't even have any hoses attached to it! Duurrrrrrr!!!