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1999 STS
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45 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
The old starter was dragging bad, and upon removal the nose was broken. There were no other electrical issues, and I bench tested the starter before installing. Once I got everything back together, and went to connect the battery cable the starter immediately engaged, and ignition was in the off position. :( So before pulling it all apart, I am wondering if there is a test I should do to find the fault, a short, or possibly an ignition or starter relay that is prone to going bad? If I have to go back in, at least I have learned how to do it. ;)
 

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2002.5 F55 CORSA STS, 2014 Explorer XLT FWD
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70,659 Posts
There should be two connections to the starter - one large battery cable and the solenoid activation Start wire.

I don't remember - is there a Start relay in the underhood fuse box ?
 

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1999 STS
Joined
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45 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
There should be two connections to the starter - one large battery cable and the solenoid activation Start wire.

I don't remember - is there a Start relay in the underhood fuse box ?
Yes the starter is a two wire connection as you described. There are two start relays in the fuse box under the hood, and two ignition relays under the back seat. I know we all make mistakes, but going over everything in my mind I can't see how I might have gtten the starter wires where they were touching. The main cable has a tang on the connector so it only sets on the solenoid stud one way. But again I know anything is possible. ;)
 

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Registered
2001 eldorado,2008 DTS,2005 XLR, '96 eldo,'95 eldo,' 89 eldo,'78 eldo,'11CTS-V
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1,859 Posts
What happens when you disconnect the two pin starter connector?...the one near the passenger side of the rear camcover.
 

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1999 STS
Joined
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45 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
What happens when you disconnect the two pin starter connector?...the one near the passenger side of the rear camcover.
I have not tried that yet, as I am still trying to learn how the wiring is set up. So thanks for the info on that!
 

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Administrator
2002.5 F55 CORSA STS, 2014 Explorer XLT FWD
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70,659 Posts
1998 and later start schematic - zoom in.

Start schematic.gif
 

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Registered
92 Fleetwood 2dr cpe - FWD, 96 Seville SLS, 02 Seville
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1,016 Posts
I vote Relay is bad. Failed in the on position.
 

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1999 STS
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45 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
I vote Relay is bad. Failed in the on position.
Very possible! I want to check whatever I can before I have to go back to the starter, and the Northstar setup is all new to me. It is good to have a place like this where people can share how they resolved issues, and give advice. The folks that design & build vehicles will often do things that do not follow what we may think is the normal way. I have owned several Astrio Vans, and they are just full of things that will make you scratch your head. :D My first one was having a charging issue that was driving me nuts until I met a guy that told me to check the starter wire. Sure enough they integrated the starter into the charging system, and then there is the dreaded losing direction control on the heat & ac. They run a plastic vacuum line from the left side of the engine over the top, down past the exhaust manifold to the vacuum reservoir under the right fender. The 2002 I have now the guys butchered the duct work trying to fix a fifty cent problem. So I very much appreciate this site!
 

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Administrator
2002.5 F55 CORSA STS, 2014 Explorer XLT FWD
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70,659 Posts
Subscribe your car to a multi-year at www.alldatadiy.com. It's the online GM/Cadillac/Helm service manuals plus a lot more. All the diagnostics codes and trees are at your fingertips as well as every possible schematic and system description. Even retail parts pricing and labor times.
 

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1999 STS
Joined
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45 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Okay, so I have swapped both of the starter relays under the hood, and ignition relay under the back seat, and problem is still there. Unplugged the two wires coming from under the intake, still cranking when the battery is hooked up. :( So I guess it is back under the manifold again. Got a couple of days of rain moving in, and my tree only provides shade :D so I hope I can get started again on Monday. Not sure of anything else to check.
 

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2001 eldorado,2008 DTS,2005 XLR, '96 eldo,'95 eldo,' 89 eldo,'78 eldo,'11CTS-V
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1,859 Posts
If you unplugged the two wire connector, and still the starter engages, it's definitely starter related.
 

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1999 STS
Joined
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45 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
If you unplugged the two wire connector, and still the starter engages, it's definitely starter related.
Yeah I had figured at this point something was shorting on the solenoid. I was thinking, since critters like to go into that void, that maybe I could catch a rat and strap a cam on him to take a look around. But I guess I am going to be the rat! :D
 

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Administrator
2002.5 F55 CORSA STS, 2014 Explorer XLT FWD
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70,659 Posts
Have Harry tell you what mice just did to the interior of his XLR.
 

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2001 eldorado,2008 DTS,2005 XLR, '96 eldo,'95 eldo,' 89 eldo,'78 eldo,'11CTS-V
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1,859 Posts
Garage kept XLR.
Mice (I'm assuming) have entered the car via the cabin air filter in the engine bay. Tore the shit out of the interior.
Everything in the glovebox turned to confetti.
Remnents of documents litter the passenger floor along with a 3" length of airbag wiring. Airbag wiring has a distinct yellow jacket.
After removing the glovebox, there is further wiring damage.
A quit at that point as further disassembly of the dash is required.
At least it starts and runs.
 

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1999 STS
Joined
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45 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Garage kept XLR.
Mice (I'm assuming) have entered the car via the cabin air filter in the engine bay. Tore the shit out of the interior.
Everything in the glovebox turned to confetti.
Remnents of documents litter the passenger floor along with a 3" length of airbag wiring. Airbag wiring has a distinct yellow jacket.
After removing the glovebox, there is further wiring damage.
A quit at that point as further disassembly of the dash is required.
At least it starts and runs.
Oh man that stinks! What is it about cars or engines that these varmints are so attracted to? I came across the same thing on an Eldorado a lady was selling, and mice had gotten into it and demolished the a/c wiring. Years back, a buddy of mine from the Ford dealership we worked at, was rebuilding a 429 PI engine, and there was a problem about the heads he had sent to have redone. It took several weeks to get it squared away, so in the meantime he had taken the short block and covered it with a canvas tarp wrapping it up tight. When he got the heads back and pulled the tarp off it was full of field mice, they had made a nest it every cylinder! :D Mouse Hotel lol but like yours being in a garage, this was in a shop where they could have made nest anywhere, but they chose the engine.
 

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2002.5 F55 CORSA STS, 2014 Explorer XLT FWD
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70,659 Posts
Harry and I talked about this the other day. Other members have used sheets of fabric softener tissue in the trunk, glove box, and underhood to deter mice and squirrels.
 

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1999 STS
Joined
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45 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Harry and I talked about this the other day. Other members have used sheets of fabric softener tissue in the trunk, glove box, and underhood to deter mice and squirrels.
Sounds like a good idea. So far no problems with mice, just squirrels under the hood of my Astro sitting on the radiator eating acorns.
 
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