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'94 Fleetwood Brogham, '94 Fleetwood, 2010 SRX 4WD, F250
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768 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I'm starting to feel that tell-tale rough running which tells me a tuneup is in the near future. I had to replace the Rotor/cap at 88k, and I'm now at 151K. It's funny how this car runs so rock solid, but when it does act up, it's not long before it requires attention.

I want to do this tuneup myself and avoid the bank loan needed to pay the local car shop. (ha,ha) I've seen a number of threads on the subject. Does anyone recommend any parts over OEM? Nice wires, plugs, etc.?

Any of course, any tips to avoid the "gotcha's". thanks.
 

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1992 Eldorado Touring
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3,688 Posts
Use the A/C delco platinum spark plugs.

As for wires, I went with the MSD, they run $80-100 depending where to buy them.

Some people like the cheaper Taylor wires, but they just don't look quality IMO.

The drivers side is easy, the passenger side resulted in many cuts and bruises on my hands...

Go ahead and do the PCV valve and tighten the manifold bolts if you can.

Goodluck!
-Elias
 

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'94 Fleetwood Brogham, '94 Fleetwood, 2010 SRX 4WD, F250
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768 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the tips. I picked up a PCV valve a month ago to have it on hand, and darn if I can find the location. Can you point me to that location?
thanks
 

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1992 Eldorado Touring
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3,688 Posts
Driver's side above the valve cover:




:thumbsup:
 

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'94 Fleetwood Brogham, '94 Fleetwood, 2010 SRX 4WD, F250
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768 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Thanks, I think they gave me the wrong PCV part at Advance. I'm in Detroit on business now. I'll check it out when I get back to VA.
 

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1993 Fleetwood Brougham (Sold)
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48 Posts
I grew up in Herndon, folks still live there.

Elias is right-on. Also, when did you last change the O2 sensor(s)?

I actually really like the guys at Fairfax Auto Parts near the main USPS branch. They tend to know their stuff and the parts often cost less. They've also helped a lot with the small-task machining I'm too lazy to do myself. Perhaps just another place to consider.

I'd highly recommend a PCM monitoring system if you want to get into the details of a real tune-up. Otherwise there's really not a terrible amount to do other than the in-stream wear parts and the fluids.
__________________
1981 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am Turbo - LS1/T56
1993 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham - 383 Vortec/4L60
1993 Mazda Protege LX - BP-ZE/G25M-R
1994 Mazda Protege DX - B8-ME/F25M-R
 

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'94 Fleetwood Brogham, '94 Fleetwood, 2010 SRX 4WD, F250
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768 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Coleman:

Thanks. I know what you mean about Fairfax Auto, they usually know their parts very well. They aren't as cheap as Total Auto, but less than NAPA.

I've changed one O2 sensor in the six years I've had the car (48k to 150K mi). So you think they should be changed also?

Yes, I live near the golf course. When is the last time you were in Hrndn? It has turned into a congestion nightmare with all the town houses and apt. buildings. We've been here 19 years and seen a lot of changes.
 

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'94 Fleetwood Brogham, '94 Fleetwood, 2010 SRX 4WD, F250
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768 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Ok, I've started the tear down process. I'm replacing the water pump, entire distributor, and the normal tuneup items.
I was thinking about changing the timing chain and gears, but I don't have the time to get too involved, especially on an engine I don't know very well (1st time LT1 teardown). I must say though, comparing this effort to the V6 tranverse mounted GM 3800, it's been fairly easy so far.

My dilemma: I've got the six bolts off the water pump (three each side); Is there a trick to getting the pump off
the block? I didn't want to pry, but it just won't budge. I have the new pump in hand, so I can see where all the bolt holes are located.
Any tips?

Also, any tips on holding the balancer assembly to prevent it from turning while removing the bolts? I still have the serpentine belt on,
hoping it would provide enough resistance, but no luck.

thanks,
Stan C.
 

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94 Fleetwood Brougham
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7,534 Posts
Best way I have used is to pull trans torque converter inspection cover and jam an extension in the flywheel.

I didn't do that on mine, but I did manage to put a ratchet with extension on the bolt and wrench on another bolt and hold on to the wrench and let the ratchet bind into the wrench and then it can turn and the wrench can't. A pain on the last one though. I managed, but spent a lot of time on that one part. Serpentine helps some.

Get GM parts and replace ALL o-rings and seals. MUST DO. I don't get any parts store parts on this one.
 

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'93 Fleetwood Brougham...Dad's
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4,382 Posts
Yeah, I need to get involved with this too, I just don't have the time or tools to do it all myself.

The '95 is at 127k of largely untouched mechanically miles, and has been running rather rough and not very strongly ever since I moved home this summer, and I'm mostly sure it's in need of plugs, wires, and maybe a few other things. ESPECIALLY before I start my high speed highway trips to PA and back in less than 2 weeks.

In case anyone's curious, do you know what a GM dealer (who I've had other work done at) and an independent shop I've also gone to said for a plug & wire change estimate? $5-600. I know it's a very high number given the low complexity of the parts, but it was just what I expected, given the semi difficulty in getting to it all, at least compared to most newer cars with coil packs and such right in plain view.

Know full well the "through the wheel well" procedures for doing this at home, etc., but between work and school, really likely will still farm it out to someone else. We'll see.
 

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1992 Eldorado Touring
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Wish you were closer! We could get it done in 2-4 hours. The drivers side is easy, it is the passenger side that will burn, cut, and cause you to have a cursing fit.
 

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'93 Fleetwood Brougham...Dad's
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Yeah, actually I just did an about face, and ordered plugs, wires, and a new TPS and PCV valve (the latter two just for the heck of it). That $600 just kept lingering on my mind in a bad way, even if it is the easy way out.

Really, the driver's side doesn't look too bad at all, and the other side we'll see. Since you've done yours already, did you go by this method (or something similar?):

http://www.regionofdoom.com/HTML/DoomTech/plugs_n_wires.htm

Things are always easier in print than they are when you're in person with your fingers stuck in sharp metal cracks, but any other tips and tools you might suggest? I think I need to pick up a tool or two, despite our arsenal, just not sure what yet.

But between the car running rough still, narrowed down to missing and questionable wires, etc., and my gas mileage which is now at "hole in the tank" level of guzzling, I really need to just get this done once and for all.
 

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1992 Eldorado Touring
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I did everything from up top (except plugging the wires into the opti)... but then again I have the CIA headers which makes it MUCH easier than with the stock manifolds. I guess going through the wheel wells would be even better.

When I did the just the plugs on the '95 Roadmaster with the stock manifolds, it took twice as long as the Fleetwood (I did plugs and wires on it), because the headers give you so much more room.
 

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94 Fleetwood Brougham
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7,534 Posts
I have STILL haven't replaced my #2 plug.... Lazy on that one I guess, but I need too, mine has around 120-130K on it, the rest maybe 20K. I have to go and mess with the AC compressor (the dreaded AC clutch bearing squeal), so I figured when I got in there I would do it. And that would be a good time to get the rest of the my plug wires on too....

Honestly, my BB 454 is far easier to work on for so much despite the size in my Suburban than the LT1 and the old 96 Vortec 350 Burb we had.

Did find an interesting tidbit yesterday, the BBC design was from Bunkie Knudson, which worked for Pontiac, but he was tapped on the shoulder to go to Chevy to lead engine development, and the engine went with him. If you look close at the design, it shares more with a Pontiac than it does with the old 348/409 "W" big block and 1955-up Small Block designs. Even the block shift is shifted #2 in front of #1, as Pontiac did intentionally to turn the distributor CCW and push UP into the dist housing instead of down like the Small Block, which puts the stress on the oil pump, which was what the original designers wanted to improve reliability. Interesting.....
 

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'93 Fleetwood Brougham...Dad's
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Yeah, we'll see. My weekend is looking to be filled with a lot of wrenching, pulling, plugging, and cutting knuckles.

The missing is now getting to the point that there's no ignoring the intermittence of it anymore.
 

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94 Fleetwood Brougham
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7,534 Posts
But the rewards are another 100-150K miles before you have to do it again.....
 

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'93 Fleetwood Brougham...Dad's
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But the rewards are another 100-150K miles before you have to do it again.....
Precisely, which is also my reasoning in always using AC Delco EVERYTHING. If it was good enough to make it past a decade and 100k miles without issue, it's good enough to use as a replacement.
 

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94 Fleetwood Brougham
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IIRC, Katshot always did the Opti/WP at 142K when he worked as the SM for the Limo company. My guess would be wires too then as you are in there and a good time to do them.

My 96 Burb Vortec 350 went 198K on stock plugs, cap, rotor and wires. I can attest to GM reliability on them. I put in some cheap plugs and got 25K and they were shot (No one had AC Delco plugs by me and I had to do them then). They were worn down good....
 

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1996 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham
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Only aftermarket parts I have ever used are WIX . However I'm mainly an "OEM" guy and mostly use AC Delco .In my FWB ,I will use nothing but OEM Parts as well.
 
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