Cadillac Owners Forum banner

1 - 20 of 72 Posts

·
Registered
'92 Brougham 5.7ltr
Joined
·
44 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hello, first time on this forum. I've read and searched but didn't find what I was looking for.

I've got a Brougham with multiple issues, the biggest is it's just not getting power. I've already replaced the fuel filter but it didn't appear clogged to me when I did it. It idles fine, and goes if you floor it, but doesn't do too well in between. Missing, loss of power, backfires here and there.

I found the video on the FAQ page that shows to get the climate control to tell you what's going on. I started the car, ran around the block and got her warmed up. Pulled into the driveway and stopped the engine and read the codes. The engine is pretty hot to the touch. They are as follows.

-00 is 00
-01 is 00
-02 is 64
-03 is 180
-04 is 97
-05 is 00
-06 is 11
-07 is 16 alternating to 26 and back, I could have seen a 15 pop in there once in a while too
-08 is 44
-10 is 115
-11 is 24
-12 is 00
-19 is 00
-20 is 00
-21 is 99
-22 is a - with a lower half | and 27 or -,27
-23 is -,01
-24 is 05
-25 is 32
-26 is 20
-28 is 28
-30 is 00
-31 is 14

If my searching is correct it's saying that the engine is only 44 degrees when it's pretty hot to the touch. If I'm not reading that right just help me screw my head on straight. :cookoo:

Thanks in advance.
Dan
 

·
Registered
1990 Cadillac Brougham; 1989 Cadillac Fleetwood
Joined
·
399 Posts
-21 is Engine Coolant temp. Check timing first. If ok, change the Coil, cap, rotor, wires and plugs. If it is missing, it is probably an ignition problem. Make sure plug wires are not around any metal in the engine. Look over the vacuum lines, especially to the EGR and the MAP sensor. Good luck.
 

·
Registered
'92 Brougham 5.7ltr
Joined
·
44 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
OK, so here's some back story. I was on a long highway trip, car was driving just fine. Stopped for some gas, got back on the road, 10 miles or so later whamo car stalls. Pull over. Check under the hood for anything obvious, don't see anything. Get back in, fires up. Put it in D and go. Car runs like crap. It idles or you can floor it. Anything in between is like you're trying to go with bad gas.

Get it home, call around, nobody has a manual. Decide to let it cool overnight. Try to start the next day, turns over but won't start. Borrow some gas from the lawnmowers can and pour about half teaspoon down intake. Starts right up. Find a fuel filter, change it, no change in performance. Old filter didn't appear clogged.

Now, the fact that I can pour a little gas in the intake and it starts right up makes me think it's a fuel problem. I don't know of a test for bad gas, but it's still got half a tank. I finally found a manual locally and will try to deduce if fuel pump is working properly.

I don't have a timing light and I'm sorta running low on funds otherwise I'd be happy to check timing. I'm not going to just throw cash at it, I've already done enough of that. Although I've been pleasantly surprised at how inexpensive parts are for it so far in comparison to my wife's Nissan minivan (which blew an engine prompting me to buy the Caddy for less than the cost of a new engine).

The Haynes manual does not include any of the stuff from the climate control system. Thanks for pointing out which code was for engine temp.
 

·
Registered
84 Coupe w/500
Joined
·
5,665 Posts
When you turn it over, can you see consistant fuel coming out of the two injectors? You can also take a plug wire off and hold it next to metal to see if you are getting a good spark. How are the plugs?
 

·
Registered
1990 Cadillac Brougham; 1989 Cadillac Fleetwood
Joined
·
399 Posts
Check your air filter!! Sounds dumb, but I've seen cars get all bent out of shape with a really dirty filter...won't run unless you brake torque it all the time, etc...

This is a '92. Turn the key to "run" but do not start the car. Do you hear the fuel pump in the tank going? If not, then your pump is bad. Say goodbye to about $350 if so. If your pump is new, then watch out for the little inlet between the fuel pump and the tank inside the tank. It is a piece of rubber that can get a hole in it, and they don't always replace it when they do the pump. I know this from personal experience. It also usually puts out a code.

Might not be the pump, though. If it isn't pulling any codes, I'd rule out sensors, though you may want to inspect vacuum. Also, look over all your fuses.

Your engine (if the 5.7) is throttle body, and only has 2 injectors for all 8 cylinders. If you have a miss, your problem is probably ignition. Make sure the timing is correct. Spurious problems are often due to a melted plug wire contacting metal. This will also foul the plug, so if you change the plugs, and keep track of which plug went where, observing the condition of each, you will probably find your problem. This condition will often damage the coil, so it is best to just overhaul the entire ignition system, esp. if it has been awhile. Good luck.
 

·
Registered
'92 Brougham 5.7ltr
Joined
·
44 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Update. Sorry it's taken so long to get back to the ones that are trying to help me out but it's taken this long to get back too it.

Checked a few spark plugs, they're old ACs but appear to be good to me. I checked the spark, and it's sparking if I crank it over and the plugs on the end of the wire.

I did the jumper on A to B on the OBDI connector and it gave me a code 44, Oxygen sensor. So I replaced the only one I could find, on the drivers side. Pulled the battery for a while, put it back, drove it till it gave me the check engine light. Checked the code, 44 again. Am I missing something. Oh, and when the check engine light comes on it quits misfiring. :hmm:

So, to run down everything I've replaced so far:
Air cleaner
Fuel filter
O2 sensor
I've run the tank down, refilled it and added injector cleaner and ran that down again. Not much of a difference at all.

I also have a fault with wiring somewhere, thought it was unrelated but now not so sure. Don't have tail lights, blows the fuse and the alarm that my headlights are on runs constantly unless the key is in the on position. The bulbs that I can get too are good but apparently the passenger side has been hit and they've glued the thing back together and I can't get the tail light assembly out of the car. I've pulled the headlight switch completely out of the car and the alarm still goes, so I pulled the speaker for the alarm. My Haynes manual is of absolutely no use for this as none of the wire colors match up at all from what I can tell. :banghead:

I do have a constant stream of gas coming from the injectors but I wouldn't necessarily call them conical streams. My eyes arent all that good though.

I can definitely hear the fuel pump start when the key turns to run, and my ears are worse than my eyes.
 

·
Registered
84 Coupe w/500
Joined
·
5,665 Posts
So is it just the tail lights that dont work or is there no power when you hit the brakes or hazards also? Everything in the front work?
 

·
Registered
'92 Brougham 5.7ltr
Joined
·
44 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
So is it just the tail lights that dont work or is there no power when you hit the brakes or hazards also? Everything in the front work?
Well, headlights work, turn signals work, but that light that comes on to illuminate the side when you're turning doesn't on the front. On the back, there are no running lights, but brake lights and turn signals work. I also have no dash lights.
 

·
Registered
84 Coupe w/500
Joined
·
5,665 Posts
looking at this 91/92 service manual, its a little confusing but do you have front running lights? As in, no running lights at all? A thicker brown wire is the actual power wire that goes directly to your running lights, opera lamps and your underhood light. So it goes...20amp TAIL LIC FUSE to(orange wire) LIGHT SWITCH to(dk grn wire) CRN/PARK FUSE to(brn wire) running lights/opera lights/underhood light. Then you follow the black wires from the tail lights to the two or three grounds. The chime module is powered off the light switch only(orange wire)
 

·
Registered
'92 Brougham 5.7ltr
Joined
·
44 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
The chime module is powered off the light switch only(orange wire)
I disassembled the dash and uninstalled the headlight switch and the chime was still going. Unfortunately I had a :gah: mixed with a :cursin: and :banghead: and, well that dinger will never ding again. :gun2:
 

·
Registered
84 Coupe w/500
Joined
·
5,665 Posts
The chime module has three different chime speeds. Fast for leaving lights on, medium for leaving key in ignition and slow for seatbelt warning. But if it were me, I would probably get another switch from a junkyard since your chime and lights are both connected to it. An edit to my above post, your chime gets power from the LTR, TAIL LIC, and GA TRANS fuses. Its all pretty confusing but it sounds like everythings coming from the light switch. Does it do anything different when you turn the headlight delay on/off?
 

·
Registered
'92 Brougham 5.7ltr
Joined
·
44 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
The chime module has three different chime speeds. Fast for leaving lights on, medium for leaving key in ignition and slow for seatbelt warning. But if it were me, I would probably get another switch from a junkyard since your chime and lights are both connected to it. An edit to my above post, your chime gets power from the LTR, TAIL LIC, and GA TRANS fuses. Its all pretty confusing but it sounds like everythings coming from the light switch. Does it do anything different when you turn the headlight delay on/off?
Yeah, it was the fast speed. If you opened the door with the key in it would slow down, then when you turned the key to run without your seatbelt on it would slow down again.

I don't use the headlight delay much. It (the switch) is currently sitting on my desk next too me. It was out as well when the dinger was still going and I lost it. It is entirely possible that I had turned it inadvertently the day that everything went haywire.

OK, so I ran out just now, plugged it in and put in a fuse. Tried the delay (if that's what it's called) and it turns the headlights on and nothing else. Tried the headlight switch again and nothing different. Blew the fuse but I didn't think to check after just the delay switch so it may have been either switch that went.
 

·
Registered
'92 Brougham 5.7ltr
Joined
·
44 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
My previous post about everything I've done so far was incomplete. Here's a better run down.

Replaced:
Air filter
fuel filter
thermostat
temp sensor @ thermostat housing
Oxygen sensor, drivers side just under exhaust manifold (if there's more please advise where I should look)
fuses for running lights, replaced 20 amp with 30 and and still blew (not a big surprise I was just hopeful and 300 miles from home at dusk)



I did find a plug wire loose on the distributor cap, pushed it back on, pulled the plug for that wire and checked the spark. It did spark but the spark was yellow not bright blue like I thought it should be. Didn't look fouled to me though. Didn't find any other plug wires rubbing on metal.

I've pulled the light switch out of the car but that didn't stop the "headlights are on" alarm from going on and on draining the battery, so I pulled the dinger and sent it to live in Silicon Heaven (where all the toasters go).

I don't have a timing light, but I do have a multimeter and know enough about it to be able to check Ohms resistance, Voltage, and continuity. I used to set the timing on my VW bus and older Subaru with points ignition, is this not possible with electronic ignition? Can you even set the timing on a 92 5.7 liter Brougham RWD?

I have a Haynes manual, '70-'93 DeVille Seville Brougham, but it's rather generalized with most things. Oxygen sensors for example, it just says to locate them and replace them, some cars have one, others have more, but it won't list which ones have how many, etc...

Thanks
 

·
Registered
1990 Cadillac Brougham; 1989 Cadillac Fleetwood
Joined
·
399 Posts
You can check timing with a light, not sure about a multimeter. With a light, you unplug the vacuum boost on the distributor to get base timing, plug in the timing light, and make the marks line up (that were either already there, or you have to make them yourself). Haven't done it correctly myself. On the sticker on the radiator cowl it tells you what the timing position is.

If you aren't getting a check engine light, and no codes, then your o2 and other sensors are probably fine. How was the plug gap on the plug you removed? Was it the correct plug? Are the wires touching metal? All these things can effect spark, and once you have a problem, if it has been occurring for awhile, it will weaken the ignition coil. Ignition problems are the most elusive. If you are having a problem with one part of the system, it can cause other problems, so best to replace it all if possible, especially if it has been awhile. Also, make sure the ground strap at the back of the motor is attached.

Do your directionals function properly? It could be water in the side where they glued it together. Had that problem with a newer Buick, but it just blew the bulbs, not the fuses. If you have a bad ground, your light and motor problems could be related, though that's a stretch.

Also, code 44 implies that the Oxygen Sensor is reporting lean operation. It doesn't necessarily mean that the o2 sensor is bad, but running lean is bad for the motor. You really need to get a Dealer Service Manual, as it has all this information in it, as well as all the diagnostic procedures relevant to it. It is really too much to type on here. But we will try to help out as best we can.
 

·
Registered
'92 Brougham 5.7ltr
Joined
·
44 Posts
Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
So I pulled the distributor cap off to see what that and the rotor looked like underneath. Yeah, I promptly went to the parts store and bought new. Still not relishing the idea of changing the plugs though. Anyways I had a hell of a time getting the new cap on.

|rant|
Dear Cadillac. You're engineers are morons. Placing the distributor at the back of the engine is one thing. Giving me tiny screws to unscrew, align, the screw back in is quite another. May the saliva from a thousand goats infest your water supply and your days be of a heat that you are parched. I know my car is 18 years old but I've worked on much older cars with CLIPS to hold the distributor cap on. I believe I even had one car that hooked in the back and only had one CLIP in the front.
|\rant|

OK, so after a few hours of almost getting the distributor cap on I succeeded. However I didn't pay attention to which wires going where on the old distributor :dummy: just slap me now please.

So, I thought I had a 5.7 liter piece of chevy, but the wires that I didn't change out don't reach if I try the firing order that's in my book (Haynes fails again). If I try the firing order for an oldsmobile (counterclockwise starting at the same spot with the same order) then it backfires. Could someone please give me a clue where to start. The firing order is imprinted on the intake manifold but doesn't state where number one starts and doesn't say clockwise or counterclockwise. My Haynes shows number one being backmost right (on the distributor) as you're looking at the engine.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

caddeville89: I do get a check engine light and it truely runs like crap. No guts unless it's 90% floored and then it's not like it's breaking any records.

My plug gap appeared to be fine, but I didn't measure it. Won't be too much to pull one plug and check in the morning.

My turn signals work on all fours. It doesn't look like water in there, but I'll probably have to hit the lens with a hammer and chisel the rest out to get into it. I've got waters in other vehicles lights and this doesn't appear to be that. Something is grounding regardless of the headlight switch. It's still grounded with the switch completely removed sitting next too me on my desk. I used to disconnect the battery so it wouldn't ding all night and drain the battery, now the dinger is no more.

My o2 sensor that I pulled out looked used, but not something that I'd think was "bad". Nothing really built up on it, but then again I can't see inside it.

Thanks to anyone reading this.
 

·
Registered
1990 Cadillac Brougham; 1989 Cadillac Fleetwood
Joined
·
399 Posts
Alright, now that you've MADE me get my manual out....#1 is the frontmost pin on the distributor, and it rotates clockwise in the firing order, which is 1 8 4 3 6 5 7 2.


NOTE if there are any other codes, fix th lowest one first, then repeat diagnostics. Lower codes can trigger higher ones, so ALWAYS fix the lower one first.

Before diagnosing the o2 sensor, unplug the battery to reset the codes, then bring the temp up to operating temp, then check the codes. If you still get code 44, the manual says to looks for.

o2 sensor wire
intermittend ground wire
MAP sensor
Lean injectors
Fuel contamination
fuel pressure
exhaust leaks
air system blowby during "closed loop" operation.

Changing the plugs is not difficult at all, compared to other motors. Make sure if you replace the wires you get some that allow routing around the exhaust manifold and not through, as this can cause problems.
 

·
Registered
1990 Cadillac Brougham; 1989 Cadillac Fleetwood
Joined
·
399 Posts
Alright, now that you've MADE me get my manual out....#1 is the frontmost pin on the distributor, and it rotates clockwise in the firing order, which is 1 8 4 3 6 5 7 2.


NOTE if there are any other codes, fix th lowest one first, then repeat diagnostics. Lower codes can trigger higher ones, so ALWAYS fix the lower one first.

Before diagnosing the o2 sensor, unplug the battery to reset the codes, then bring the temp up to operating temp, then check the codes. If you still get code 44, the manual says to looks for.

o2 sensor wire
intermittend ground wire
MAP sensor
Lean injectors
Fuel contamination
fuel pressure
exhaust leaks
air system blowby during "closed loop" operation.

Changing the plugs is not difficult at all, compared to other motors. Make sure if you replace the wires you get some that allow routing around the exhaust manifold and not through, as this can cause problems.
 
1 - 20 of 72 Posts
Top