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2007 CTS-V Thunder Gray; 2004 Cowboy Cadillac (SRT10)
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Discussion Starter #1
Hi All,

I have been looking into a couple of different ways to get more power on the V. Since I saw a thread on a Maggie on an LS2 only getting about 60HP I figured Cam and heads would be a better bang for the buck.

I came across this article and it stated with what they call a stage I cam they gained 90HP.

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com/tech/0604htp_ls2_engine_tests/index.html

Is this a good source of information? If so does anyone have any comments about this cam selection or about the company mentioned called Livornois?

Boy, if this is true, with a Stage I Cam, Tune, FFV, Headers it should be possible to get 440RWHP at the rears and if you throw in a set of heads You should be able to add another 30HP. :thumbsup:

Not to be against the power adders but with the 11:1 compression I think it might be better to go N/A with the LS2.

Now if you swap the Heads and do some chamber work and drop the compression to 9 to 9.5 forged bottom end then you could go nuts with a supercharger. :worship:

You would probably blow up the rear end from a nice easy roll and then nail the throttle!
 

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You've got to get some Benadryl for that MOD Sting you got. Seems like you're having an allergic reaction and can't stop scratchin the itch....

Good find by the way. Seems like you'll bet pretty familar with your car after finish installing all of the above. I assume you would be doing the install yourself.

Why don't you buy that lift for your garage first, so you can save you back?
 

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Cadillac 2004 CTS-V
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Hi All,

I have been looking into a couple of different ways to get more power on the V. Since I saw a thread on a Maggie on an LS2 only getting about 60HP I figured Cam and heads would be a better bang for the buck.

I came across this article and it stated with what they call a stage I cam they gained 90HP.

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com/tech/0604htp_ls2_engine_tests/index.html

Is this a good source of information? If so does anyone have any comments about this cam selection or about the company mentioned called Livornois?

Boy, if this is true, with a Stage I Cam, Tune, FFV, Headers it should be possible to get 440RWHP at the rears and if you throw in a set of heads You should be able to add another 30HP. :thumbsup:

Not to be against the power adders but with the 11:1 compression I think it might be better to go N/A with the LS2.

Now if you swap the Heads and do some chamber work and drop the compression to 9 to 9.5 forged bottom end then you could go nuts with a supercharger. :worship:

You would probably blow up the rear end from a nice easy roll and then nail the throttle!
60 hp from a Maggie??? That must've been with a 5" pulley at idle :thepan:
 

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Note that the 90hp gain is at the flywheel. You certainly won't see that kind of gain to the rear wheels.
 

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2005 CTS-V
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Note that the 90hp gain is at the flywheel. You certainly won't see that kind of gain to the rear wheels.
The 90 hp (assuming that figure is accurate) is additive to the "before" level of rear wheel HP is it not? If not, what ratio would you apply - I don't think it would be the ratio of "before" rear wheel HP to "before" flywheel HP, would it?
 

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The 90 hp (assuming that figure is accurate) is additive to the "before" level of rear wheel HP is it not? If not, what ratio would you apply - I don't think it would be the ratio of "before" rear wheel HP to "before" flywheel HP, would it?
If I understand what you're saying, this gets back to the whole argument of whether drivetrain loss is a static figure or percentage. I don't want to get back into that, so let me just say this. If there were a cam out there that made an additional 90hp to the wheels and showed gains throughout the powerband like that one does, I think it would be at the top of the list of mods for every single person who owns an LS powered vehicle.
 

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If I understand what you're saying, this gets back to the whole argument of whether drivetrain loss is a static figure or percentage. I don't want to get back into that, so let me just say this. If there were a cam out there that made an additional 90hp to the wheels and showed gains throughout the powerband like that one does, I think it would be at the top of the list of mods for every single person who owns an LS powered vehicle.
Okay, I have no opinion as to the validity of the 90 HP figure. I did not know that the nature of drivetrain loss was somehow subject to an ongoing argument.
 

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2005 Stealth Gray CTS-V, 2009 Black CTS-V
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Hi All,

I have been looking into a couple of different ways to get more power on the V. Since I saw a thread on a Maggie on an LS2 only getting about 60HP I figured Cam and heads would be a better bang for the buck.
Better bang for the buck? Perhaps. Only 60rwhp from a Maggie? It won't stay that way if such owner follows up with Magnasun, I can guarantee it.

When I FIRST installed mine, with the a$$-tastic 3.0" pulley, I got a whopping ~60rwhp as well. When I provided them with my dyno run, I didn't have to say a word, they installed the 2.8" pulley, which made all the difference in the world. After a tune, I added about 120 rwhp.

If you switch to the 2.6" pulley (watch out for belt slip!) or change the crankshaft pulley/balancer to 8", you'll probably add about another 30ish or so rwhp and a buttload of rwtq (that's a lot :)).

For someone to add a cam/heads and get what another person can get with a maggie and a 2.6"/8" crankshaft pulley, they'd have to run a pretty radical camshaft for certain. In other words, it ain't gonna be easy. The world of forced induction is a whole different ballgame. :thumbsup:

Keep in mind, this is with the "lower-end" supercharger. If you upgrade to their other model (the name escapes me at the moment), you'll put out rwhp/rwtq beyond what you'd want with the stock LS6/LS2.
 

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2007 CTS-V Thunder Gray; 2004 Cowboy Cadillac (SRT10)
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Discussion Starter #14
GMBOUND said:
Get a Lift...
Working on it, Can't quite scratch the itch...:bouncy:

Note that the 90hp gain is at the flywheel. You certainly won't see that kind of gain to the rear wheels.
Making the assumpution that you loose 17.5% (1-(400/330)=.175) then the net power gain would be about 74HP which is still a respectable gain. Also, I can only get 91 octane (CA) so the numbers will probably be somewhat lower also.

The Livornois cam/intake upgrage was explored extensively on an earlier thread a few weeks ago.
I did a search but didn't find anything, sorry for the new post rehashing information

Better bang for the buck? Perhaps. Only 60rwhp from a Maggie? It won't stay that way if such owner follows up with Magnasun, I can guarantee it.

When I FIRST installed mine, with the a$$-tastic 3.0" pulley, I got a whopping ~60rwhp as well. When I provided them with my dyno run, I didn't have to say a word, they installed the 2.8" pulley, which made all the difference in the world. After a tune, I added about 120 rwhp.

If you switch to the 2.6" pulley (watch out for belt slip!) or change the crankshaft pulley/balancer to 8", you'll probably add about another 30ish or so rwhp and a buttload of rwtq (that's a lot :)).

For someone to add a cam/heads and get what another person can get with a maggie and a 2.6"/8" crankshaft pulley, they'd have to run a pretty radical camshaft for certain. In other words, it ain't gonna be easy. The world of forced induction is a whole different ballgame. :thumbsup:

Keep in mind, this is with the "lower-end" supercharger. If you upgrade to their other model (the name escapes me at the moment), you'll put out rwhp/rwtq beyond what you'd want with the stock LS6/LS2.
Not trying to slam Forced induction, as a matter of fact I am thinking about doing both. I realize that the Thread I saw was the beginning of an install and with the proper combination you should be able to get those numbers up. Now I could be wrong about this but I was thinking that because we run lower octane in California (91) and LS2 has 11:1 compression you need to be careful with the boost or you will get pre-Ignition which will retard the timing and the net affect is very little gains in power.

Now for bang for the buck...
I could probably install the cam myself for $1,500 inculding a custom grind, Tune, and springs and if I could get a 70HP gain that would
$22 Per HP

It looks like I can get a Maggie for $6000 and not including anything else and lets say you get 100HP then
$60 Per HP

To get the same bang for the buck I would need to get 270HP. I know, I'm being stupid but with all this it doesn't matter. The Maggie is cool, Does give you a great boost in HP and TQ, and there is no replacement for that cool whine you get :thumbsup:

I am getting a good understanding of Mod Hell, Suffering with the BB Exhaust fitment now. My estimtes above are just that, estimates. The deeper I get into this the closer and hopefully more accurate I will get with the numbers and cost.

On my list - Cam, Heads (Bigger chambers), SuperCharger (ATI or MAggie), Forged Bottom end, then of course a new ass end to replace the Original GM Factory Glass part.

Just working on the wish list and hope to sneak some (if not all) of these things in next year.

Any other companies I should look at for Cams? Anymore articles out there for power adders / Combinations? What I'm looking for is the nut bag that did all of the mods to support FI then throw on a Maggie or equivalent and ????

Thanks everyone for the input so far.
 

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If I understand what you're saying, this gets back to the whole argument of whether drivetrain loss is a static figure or percentage. I don't want to get back into that, so let me just say this. If there were a cam out there that made an additional 90hp to the wheels and showed gains throughout the powerband like that one does, I think it would be at the top of the list of mods for every single person who owns an LS powered vehicle.
Based on additional research it is now my understanding that drivetrain losses do, in fact, vary with the level of horsepower at the flywheel.
 

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If bang-for-your-buck is your guiding principle, then you absolutely cannot beat NOS.

I believe you are a CA resident. With that in mind, you have to consider how long you plan on owning the car. If you conclude that you may own the car for, say, 5+ years, you may have a challenging time passing smog if you cam/head the car.

Supercharging definitely isn't great from the bang-for-your-buck perspective, but it definitely has it's advantages as well.

Then again, I say just get an LS7 and be done with it! :):thumbsup:
 

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Let me throw in here and say that you can do the cam and heads and most likely keep your warranty intact since it would be a stealth mod (sorta).
Probably true since some of the technicians think there is a Northstar under that engine cover as demonstated by their 8 quart oil changes.
 
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