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85 Eldorado, hard clunk when turning sharp after pulling out of parking spot

3K views 53 replies 5 participants last post by  scottelderado 
#1 ·
Hi guys, I'm getting some car work done soon and I'm going to ask the garage to try to solve the following mystery:

When I back out of a parking space, then turn sharply right or left, put it in Drive and start moving forward, I encounter a loud clunk coming from somewhere toward the left front tire. I can feel a slight jolt. Kind of like the transmission is slamming into gear (but I don't think it has anything to do with the transmission). It will only do this once. Like cracking a knuckle. No noise while driving or on bumps.

If I don't turn sharply right after pulling out of a parking space, then drive around some, then do a similarly sharp turn, no noise or jolt. As if some rubber or bushing or something got warmed up and the problem sorted itself out.

Known problems that may not be related: I have some steering slop (which I'm getting diagnosed and fixed; believe this jolt thing predates the slop); shocks are old; damper is old.

Guesses: Bad bushing in a control arm, bad rubber in sway bar link, CV joint, bad ball joint, or maybe bad idler/pitman arm or tie rod end.

Sound familiar to anyone? Thanks a lot.
 
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#2 ·
I've replaced several 1/2 shafts on my Rivieras. All good guesses, but I thought of two even before finishing the second sentence:

[scotteldorado]
Guesses: Bad bushing in a control arm, bad rubber in sway bar link, CV joint, bad ball joint, or maybe bad idler/pitman arm or tie rod end.

Bonus thought: Hold out for a shop that'll let (almost invite) you see it up on the lift to eyeball general situation with the whole front suspension. For any other split/rotted boots just install a glue type replacement or that whole 1/2 shaft too.

Nice car.
 
#3 ·
Thanks a lot, FTSS. Appreciate it. Yes, I'll try to get a look while up on a lift. I'm not as daring as I used to be with getting under this car. But I did look and saw no obviously torn boots etc. I don't know what I'm doing... but I thought the telltale on bad CVs was regular noise while driving?
 
#4 ·
I've had them seem like everything from loose lugnuts and missing control arm bushing, to a motormount and exhaust hitting frame. That's why important to "be there" when it's up and more eyes (the mech's and yours) can catch one or more things that might be suspect. I had mine all around 20 years ago, so I have to think EVERY part of the susp. should be replaced by now just on general principle as "long overdue" if it already hasn't been in the last 15 years. LOL Hell, it could be a steering ragjoint, but nobody's that lucky.

If t'wer me I'd get it up in front and have someone keep running the steering hard stop-to-stop and you look for anything noisy or not moving right. Then you can be a smarter listener when the mech. is talking showing off his intelligence.

I believe the left is the power side of a FWD, so don't discount the tranny getting into the mix too, which BTW would make having a set of FSM dam near gold just for the diagnosis charts alone.

Parting thought: about the only 'instant catastrophe' would be balljoint(s). If/when it's in the air specifically do a visual and the common prybar test to eliminate at least that eh.
 
#8 ·
Jack up one side of the front of the car while keeping the other side on the ground and then grab the wheel top and bottom and see if there is movement which I believe indicates bad ball joint and then try to wiggle it front to back and I believe it if there's movement that indicates tie rod but I could have that backwards. That's the easiest thing to check without having to get underneath the car. You can give that information to the mechanic if you do find anything.

Roy
 
#12 ·
Update: Shop called. Tires switched out (that was the main motivation for the garage work, nail in one tire, all of them getting old) and steering problems diagnosed. $80. No alignment/balancing yet.

Garage desk guy says, second hand: Mechanic says 3 out of 4 ball joints are going bad and causing the slop. Didn't make it sound like I was in risk of immediate death. One or two ball joints appear original, because of rivets. (I didn't realize that).
CV and arms and ends reportedly okay. Both shocks are bad and need replacement. Some parts must be ordered, but said the parts are relatively cheap through their sourcing.

Total estimate for 3 ball joints and front shocks: $1800, parts and labor. "How much of that is ball joint labor?" I asked. "Like 99%." I said I want to see the paper estimate, which my brother will grab when he picks up the car in an hour.

But there's a greater than 99% chance I'm not paying that. My instinct is to do it all myself, then pay a shop to get it aligned/balance. 4 higher-end ACDelco ball joints are like $100. I need to replace the front brake pads/rotors anyway, and I was also going to buy a grease gun for steering parts maintenance.

I can drill out rivets; ball joint replacement looks pretty straightforward in FSM, but I've never done that before. I'm not a mechanic, but a decent parts changer.

What should I do? Thanks!
 
#14 ·
Update: Shop called. Tires switched out (that was the main motivation for the garage work, nail in one tire, all of them getting old) and steering problems diagnosed. $80. No alignment/balancing yet.

Garage desk guy says, second hand: Mechanic says 3 out of 4 ball joints are going bad and causing the slop. Didn't make it sound like I was in risk of immediate death. One or two ball joints appear original, because of rivets. (I didn't realize that).
CV and arms and ends reportedly okay. Both shocks are bad and need replacement. Some parts must be ordered, but said the parts are relatively cheap through their sourcing.

Total estimate for 3 ball joints and front shocks: $1800, parts and labor. "How much of that is ball joint labor?" I asked. "Like 99%." I said I want to see the paper estimate, which my brother will grab when he picks up the car in an hour.

But there's a greater than 99% chance I'm not paying that. My instinct is to do it all myself, then pay a shop to get it aligned/balance. 4 higher-end ACDelco ball joints are like $100. I need to replace the front brake pads/rotors anyway, and I was also going to buy a grease gun for steering parts maintenance.

I can drill out rivets; ball joint replacement looks pretty straightforward in FSM, but I've never done that before. I'm not a mechanic, but a decent parts changer.

What should I do? Thanks!
===============
I can drill out rivets
I hope you have a VERY strong drill and HIGH QUALITY drill bits -

we used to heat the rivets up cherry-red and zap them with an air chisel -
drilling them WILL take time -
 
#13 ·
p.s. My regular mechanic, btw, is reliable and surely would be much much cheaper. But got this nail (too near sidewall to repair) while visiting family, so went to a relatively close shop. The one who gave the estimate is a small regional chain. Not a national franchise.
 
#16 ·
I would do all four ball joints just so you know they're all equal. Pull your control arms off and completely rebuild them with all new bushings also. The parts are usually not all that expensive. Buy a kit from Harbor Freight for rebuilding them also. Look at anything else that you can change out while you're doing this that's relatively easy to get to. Always like putting in new bushings everywhere because they are generally pretty cheap and don't take that much longer to replace. When you get new rotors you're probably going to have to get new bearings and seals also so look at that while you're buying parts. If you go to RockAuto they have numerous options for ball joints. Good place to get your brake parts also. We got all the parts for my nephew's 84 Firebird from them and replaced everything in the steering, suspension and brakes. It was a great time to teach him about working on cars but unfortunately he passed away three years ago from cancer. The car will now go to his brother as he just got out of the Marines last year.

Roy
 
#17 ·
Thanks Roy, that makes a lot of sense about the control arm bushings. I'll look into what that practically involves and whether I can borrow the press. You mean something like this, right? Ball Joint Service Kit for 2WD and 4WD Vehicles On sale for $60 now.

Already placed an order at Rock Auto for the ball joints. Got the ACDelco Pro line for pretty cheap. Brake pads, rotors, shocks I already have on hand.

Sorry to hear about your nephew. My condolences.
 
#18 · (Edited)
Yes that's the kit that I bought. Thanks for your condolences. We started building an almost 3,000 sqft garage and man cave and the third day in is when we found out about his cancer. 4 months later it was my wife but she's okay now. Here's is a link to my YouTube channel showing the building of the garage.



Roy
 
#20 ·
Yes that's the kit that I bought. Thanks for your condolences. We started building an almost 3,000 sqft garage and man cave and the third day in is when we found out about his cancer. 4 months later it was my wife but she's okay now. Here's is a link to my YouTube channel showing the building of the garage.



"....... All of it ......."
Roy
Condolences. And as you're doubtless already aware, memories of those who've passed keeps them right alongside you and living.
 
#19 · (Edited)
Quick! Cancel, amend and change your order to RA. Get fully loaded control arms all sides. Extremely reasonable price considering what's included , and the labor cost, aggravation and especially time saved. The new bushings will be heaven. Remember final torque only with suspension full weight.

[EDIT] What a revolting development. No go on entire loaded arms checking RA, Carid, Caddy Daddy, CarParts, Ebay. Must have gone to 'Part NLA' heaven. So Rosanne Rosannadana ::Nevermind::

I did new lowers on wife's Tribute last week to pass inspection = too easy.
 
#21 · (Edited)
Roy, thanks for the advice. Very glad to hear your wife has recovered. That sounds like a very tough period for your family. Your Garage Majal is appropriately named and awesome. I'm jealous, particularly now.

FTSS, thanks for the advice. Saved me the trouble of looking around for loaded arms.

I've been poking around in the FSM... my knowledge of torsion bars, which fit into the lower arms, is basically theoretical. As in, I've heard of them and I know what they do and that's it. Messing with those seems like a real PITA, even if I knew what I was doing. So I'm leaning toward giving the bushings a very close look and unless awful, leaving the control arms alone.

Parts are in the mail. In the meantime, I'm gonna jack up the car and take the wheels off and do some looking around and pushing/pulling myself. And I will size up those rivets. By the way, I have no torch, no grinder, and no air chisel.

What I do have: a 5 amp Milwaukee corded hammer drill that has a drill setting; some good big bits for steel; a fancy new cordless drill kit (regular and impact); a dremel with many metal cutting discs; a crappy hand chisel; a very strong desire to drop the car off at that same garage and say "Hi, I did that work myself. Please do the alignment."
 
#23 ·
Good that you're calling to uncover the unnecessarily vague description. 'UCA bushings' would have been more descriptive, unless they claim to have a machine that generates only holistic fault codes. Upper bushings do tend to wear before lowers, though I had a lower disintegrate on a Grand Marquis once while the rest remained fine.

You already know to replace shocks as a pair, and heartening to find another still willing (almost enthused) to do his own work.

And you made me remember I had to mess with at least one torsion arm once on the Riv. I can't remember why I had to unload/reload one or both of them, but the FSM (checked out of the library) made the potentially dangerous steps easy to follow.


............
a dremel with many metal cutting discs; a crappy hand chisel; a very strong desire to drop the car off at that same garage and say "Hi, I did that work myself. Please do the alignment."
The dremel will be pretty much a David to those Goliath rivets, so mayhaps a good business case for a HF 4" grinder and metal discs. As they're coming completely off it would be little concern just zipping off the whole top of the joint.
 
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#22 ·
Update on the update: I got the car and read the paper estimate. There's a line item on the estimate for Left and Right "Front Upper Suspension Co..." (the template apparently ran out of words). I'm assuming those are control arm bushings. Guy didn't mention that to me when we talked on the phone, so I'll call back and inquire.
Other items to replace on estimate: Lower ball joints right and left (no upper ball joints listed); one shock. That's it.

I was in a hurry yesterday, but floor jacked the car up on one side (left) at front frame, then lifted the left lower control arm with the jack a couple inches. Wiggled wheel up down, left right. No play felt, either way. Possible I lifted the lower arm wrong.

Will call shop and ask for details.
 
#24 ·
Good tips. Thanks for those and for the encouragement, FTSS. If the drill can't do it, I can borrow or buy a cheap grinder.

I was busy yesterday. Will call shop later today for details.

I've been studying. Shop estimate says my lower ball joints (though shop guy said lower and upper...) are bad on both sides and my upper control arm bushings are bad on both sides. I can do the upper CA bushings without involving the torsion bars. If I remove the whole upper arm, that would seem to make the ball joint rivet removal much easier. For the uppers, anyway.
Apparently I need spacers to protect the thin CA metal when pressing in/out. I found the spacers on eBay and ordered them. $20 total. The official bushing cup/receiver doesn't seem worth the cost at $200. Standard kit cups don't match the OEM cup, which has a cutout for the CA metal lip. I think I'll make something with a long bolt and wing it, since I'll have the spacer.
 
#25 ·
Good tips. Thanks for those and for the encouragement, FTSS. If the drill can't do it, I can borrow or buy a cheap grinder.

I was busy yesterday. Will call shop later today for details.

I've been studying. Shop estimate says my lower ball joints (though shop guy said lower and upper...) are bad on both sides and my upper control arm bushings are bad on both sides. I can do the upper CA bushings without involving the torsion bars. If I remove the whole upper arm, that would seem to make the ball joint rivet removal much easier. For the uppers, anyway.
Apparently I need spacers to protect the thin CA metal when pressing in/out. I found the spacers on eBay and ordered them. $20 total. The official bushing cup/receiver doesn't seem worth the cost at $200. Standard kit cups don't match the OEM cup, which has a cutout for the CA metal lip. I think I'll make something with a long bolt and wing it, since I'll have the spacer.
=======================
keep in mind that autozone has a loaner tool program - you "rent" the tools for free -
actually - you buy the tool then return it -
 
#27 ·
I had a noise like that at one point and thought similar that half what's had issues. When inspecting the front end, everything checked. I had someone else move the car around while I watched. Turned out a tire had the belts break internally and was rolling over creating a shock load (popping) while turning sharp.
 
#28 ·
Thanks Jack. I just put four new tires on the car so if that was it, should be fixed now.

Talked to the shop. Guy who worked up the estimate had left for the day, so another dude was reviewing his notes and trying to figure it out. Estimator guy is going to call me tomorrow.
But on the computer there's no character limit like on the printed paper estimate. Turns out "Left/Right Front Upper Suspension Co..." is actually the Co..."ntrol Arm Ball Joint." So the parts and labor are for all four ball joints, not the upper CA bushings. They also want to replace both shocks. According to them, the two shocks and four ball joints are the cause of both the clunk and the slop.

$630 for parts ($260 for two $30 KYB Gas-a-Just shocks); $800 total labor. Not counting $100 alignment after.

No clarity on just how bad the ball joints are. But apparently he told my brother at car pickup it wasn't dangerous yet.
 
#29 ·
Thanks Jack. I just put four new tires on the car so if that was it, should be fixed now.

Talked to the shop. Guy who worked up the estimate had left for the day, so another dude was reviewing his notes and trying to figure it out. Estimator guy is going to call me tomorrow.
But on the computer there's no character limit like on the printed paper estimate. Turns out "Left/Right Front Upper Suspension Co..." is actually the Co..."ntrol Arm Ball Joint." So the parts and labor are for all four ball joints, not the upper CA bushings. They also want to replace both shocks. According to them, the two shocks and four ball joints are the cause of both the clunk and the slop.

$630 for parts ($260 for two $30 KYB Gas-a-Just shocks); $800 total labor. Not counting $100 alignment after.

No clarity on just how bad the ball joints are. But apparently he told my brother at car pickup it wasn't dangerous yet.
=================
take the car somewhere else -
those numbers seem REALLY high
 
#30 ·
Rest assured, zero percent chance I'd hire them to do anything other than the alignment. Those shocks are in stock at the AutoZone a mile away for $31 each...
I'm gonna give it a shot. I need to do the brake pads and rotors anyway. Won't go past any points of no return I can't handle. That way I can always abort and go to my regular guys, who are very reasonable and good.
 
#31 ·
Rest assured, zero percent chance I'd hire them to do anything other than the alignment. Those shocks are in stock at the AutoZone a mile away for $31 each...
I'm gonna give it a shot. I need to do the brake pads and rotors anyway. Won't go past any points of no return I can't handle. That way I can always abort and go to my regular guys, who are very reasonable and good.
=====================
KYB are a hard riding shock -
MONROE 5843 would be a MUCH better choice -
 
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