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Cadillac
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Discussion Starter #1
Last 3 Cars:

2009 CTS-V
2006 STS-V
2004 CTS-V
(Also currently own a 2015 Escalade)


I realize no one asked, but here is why I will almost certainly not be buying another CTS-V:

1. At $90k+ optioned, the car has reached a price point where you either "have the money or you don't". No longer in bargain territory even if it is a relative "value" based on performance. So from my perspective... if I am willing to spend $100k on a vehicle, an extra $25k gets me a superior vehicle in just about every respect re: P85D. Much better performance (off the track). No gas (!) Class leading tech.

2. Cadillac really mailed in the styling. The V3 is simply not exceptional looking. The front looks great, but only an evolutionary change compared to the V2. The rear is, how can I put it... fugly. Cadillac went all out on mechanical / innovation / weight savings with their latest gens... CTS/ATS/C6. Unfortunately the styling is lacking in a major way. To each their own of course, but for the money Caddy now wants they better have a "wow" factor. The Tesla simply wows. It looks unique, and from a tech perspective cannot be beat.

So overall, I think the V3 will probably be the best car GM has ever built. But for a substantial price increase that puts it in a different level of competition. To me, it's worth the extra money for a 3.1 sec 0-60 and the pleasure of going green.
 

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2012 Black Diamond CTS-V Coupe
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I do agree with your comment that GM mailed it in on the styling, despite the fact that it will be a great vehicle from a performance standpoint.
 

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2009 CTS-V 6MT, 2017 AMG GLC43
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Much as I like the Tesla P85D, I can't get over that it's $135K with all the performance goodies (50% more than the $90K) and the only differentiator between lesser models is a very subtle and optional rear spoiler. The styling is starting to age primarily because it never looked unique in the first place, borrowing heavily from Jaguar/Aston with Audi-esque headlights.

You can't beat the straight line speed of the P85D (up to 1/4 mile at least), but handling seems a step down from the rest of the class. Love going green, though not loving range anxiety and/or forgetting to plug-in which may become a pain.

I'm not yet sold on the V3 either (I'd forgive the rear styling if they had a manual transmission). I honestly don't see an easy replacement for the V2 -- the V2 may be Cadillac's equivalent of the 2003 M5, never to be repeated again -- given dealers will try to rake us on trade-in value, wondering why bother replacing it? Maybe something alongside is a better idea...
 

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86 Bronco, 74 Ford LTD,1999 Deville, 1977 Coupe Deville
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305 Posts
Electric cars being "Green" is as big a hoax as "Man made global warming"
Tesla's are a cool toy though.
How much is a battery change?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Guys I was hoping by illustrating my loyalty to the brand it would show how hard it is for me to walk away. Six figure pricing is big boy territory...brand loyalty is out the window at that level you simply want the best. The bottom line is that an auto V3 needs to yield at a stop light to a P85D. No drivers race, no competition, 10-10 times. Hellcat? Yield.

At least with a manual I could convince myself more was in my control.
 

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300 SRT8, 392 cubic inches of tire smoking power!
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That P85D is a pretty sweet ride, can't say I blame you with what they're trying to charge for the new V. I met one of those a few months back, it absolutely left my SRT8 for dead at a stoplight almost as if I was going backwards. Tesla really has their act together, that car is awesome. Enjoy.
 

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86 Bronco, 74 Ford LTD,1999 Deville, 1977 Coupe Deville
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305 Posts
I'm sure you will have a blast! Please come back & post pics when you get it.
Electric cars are stunning at drag racing. Electric bikes also. Instant torque off the chart. But when the electric Formula racers run low on juice the drivers have to switch to a fresh car.
The Tesla will be a rocket for awhile. But on a cross country race ( Cannonball Run?) it would be useless.Tortoise & hare sort of thing.
Just Sayin.
I've not yet read how they will recycle the huge battery packs & how much hazardous waste will remain. Yucca mountain?
 

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300 SRT8, 392 cubic inches of tire smoking power!
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That why you have an Escalade in the garage, for those long trips.
 

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'16 CTS V-Sport Black/'16 CTS Luxury w/V-Sport Pkg White
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tesla is nice....but it lacks some refinements you'd expect in every car (like map pockets) what tesla has going for it is really spectacular, what tesla lacks is forgivable because it's brand new and i'm sure they're learning and improving....if gen 2 model s is missing map pockets then shame on them

the model s in p85D form is a monster at the stoplight...but overall the car has extremely lackluster handling....again forgivable....it needs to improve in gen 2 though

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i totally am behind tesla and want them to continue making moonshots....but setting aside drag racing and tv sized infotainment...i'm more impressed with the i3 and i8 as cars
 

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CTS-V (Black 2014), CTS-V (Red obsession 2014)
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2. 70 kWh battery with all-wheel drive
3. 240 miles range (EPA)
4. 5.2 seconds 0-60 mph
5. 329 hp
6. 140 mph top speed

2. 85 kWh battery with rear wheel drive
3. 265 miles range (EPA)
4. 5.4 seconds 0-60 mph
5. 362 hp
6. 140 mph top speed

2. 85 kWh battery with all-wheel drive
3. 270 miles range (EPA)
4. 4.4 seconds 0-60 mph
5. 422 hp
6. 155 mph top speed

2. 85 kWh battery with high performance all-wheel drive
3. 253 miles range (EPA)
4. 3.1 seconds 0-60 mph
5. 221 hp front, 470 hp rear motor power
6. 155 mph top speed
 

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Discussion Starter #13
The v3 is brand new, the model s is getting towards the end of its life cycle. Maybe that would compel me to rethink Caddy next year? I have to admit, the conservative styling has more of an effect on my decision than it should.
 

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300 SRT8, 392 cubic inches of tire smoking power!
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Jpjr said:
The v3 is brand new, the model s is getting towards the end of its life cycle. Maybe that would compel me to rethink Caddy next year? I have to admit, the conservative styling has more of an effect on my decision than it should.
As awesome as that S P85D is, it's still not a grumbling pushrod V-8.
 

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2011 CTS-V wagon
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500 Posts
Can't do a tesla. Long term reliability has been poor, CU had to replace drive train twice. What happens if they go belly up? They have never made a profit, that train is not going to last forever. That piece of shiny black plastic splattered across the grill is just cheap looking.
 

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2011 WD Vagon 6MT "Unobtainicorn"
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if I am willing to spend $100k on a vehicle, an extra $25k gets me a superior vehicle in just about every respect re: P85D
I love the P85D, but let's be clear - it handles nothing like the new CTS-V, and the V will absolutely destroy it on any road course you choose. So yes the Tesla is a superior vehicle in terms of MPG and straight line acceleration, but that's it. Definitely not superior in terms of balance, handling, braking, weight, etc. Again I don't disagree with your choice, but be realistic about what you're losing and what you're gaining.

So overall, I think the V3 will probably be the best car GM has ever built. But for a substantial price increase that puts it in a different level of competition. To me, it's worth the extra money for a 3.1 sec 0-60 and the pleasure of going green.
I don't disagree. It should be pointed out, though, that the V3's slower 0-60 time is constrained by traction. Not an excuse, just saying it would easily hit a 3.1 or 3.0 0-60 with drag radials or maybe slicks. Remember the V3 is only down roughly 60 HP to the P85D and it weighs something like 800-900 lbs less, so it has a pretty vastly superior power to weight ratio. But no traction, which is why I think AWD would have been a good idea for the V3. Note that the P85D is only trapping 114-115 in the 1/4 mile, which is not only slower than the V3, it's slower than the V2.

It's really good for an electric car, and I like Teslas honestly, but the Vs are still faster.
 

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CTS-V (Black 2014), CTS-V (Red obsession 2014)
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Bicycles are "green".
Electric cars that plug in to the power grid are not "green".
Electric cars have improved emissions, and are better (than a 14 mpg V) for the environment.
Electric cars plugged into "electricity" provided by coal plants are not good. (US power generation 2013: 39% coal, 27% natural gas, 19% nuclear, 13% renewable, 1% other

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I love the P85D, but let's be clear - it handles nothing like the new CTS-V, and the V will absolutely destroy it on any road course you choose. So yes the Tesla is a superior vehicle in terms of MPG and straight line acceleration, but that's it. Definitely not superior in terms of balance, handling, braking, weight, etc. Again I don't disagree with your choice, but be realistic about what you're losing and what you're gaining.



I don't disagree. It should be pointed out, though, that the V3's slower 0-60 time is constrained by traction. Not an excuse, just saying it would easily hit a 3.1 or 3.0 0-60 with drag radials or maybe slicks. Remember the V3 is only down roughly 60 HP to the P85D and it weighs something like 800-900 lbs less, so it has a pretty vastly superior power to weight ratio. But no traction, which is why I think AWD would have been a good idea for the V3. Note that the P85D is only trapping 114-115 in the 1/4 mile, which is not only slower than the V3, it's slower than the V2.

It's really good for an electric car, and I like Teslas honestly, but the Vs are still faster.
I agree with Xactly.

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If 0-60 is of primary importance, there are plenty of V2's that can beat a P85D, just as there will be plenty of modified V3's.
http://www.superchevy.com/features/1308-2012-cadillac-cts-v-cool-customer/

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Guys I was hoping by illustrating my loyalty to the brand it would show how hard it is for me to walk away. Six figure pricing is big boy territory...brand loyalty is out the window at that level you simply want the best.
We really don't care if you buy another "Cadillac". We want you to buy what you like, and it is all the better if it is a performance car, and bonus if it's American too!
I just don't think the Tesla is "all that", and certainly not the "best"..

As for pricing, my V2 had a $77K msrp, a V3 outfitted the way I want is at $87K, and the P85D base price is at $105K.
I think your not being fair to the value the Cadillac continues to offer.

Whatever though; we're happy for you. Just don't disparage the cars (that we like) on your way out.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Who is disparaging?

Guys it's ok to point out the shortcomings of the V, just like the Tesla.

As far as speed though, I don't know what to tell some of you. There is almost no real world situation off a track where the V3 will beat a Tesla.

I will concede the price difference. Again, however, you are talking about six figure cars.
 

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300 SRT8, 392 cubic inches of tire smoking power!
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Um, what about a 30-100 run?
After watching one literally disappear into the night in front of own eyes, I don't think there'd be much point in the 30-100 run. I could be wrong on that though, but daaaaammmmnnnn that car was fast! I'd call it blistering.
 
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