Why do you want less power, the same MPG, and the same timing chain problems?

 

Although the 3.0 does have the potential for timing chain problems, the failure rate is lower for the 3.0 that the 3.6.

 

The CTS is a great car, but the price is a little high for a car with that mileage, in my opinion. You'll be buying it with heaps of expensive deferred maintenance awaiting you, which I think should be factored into the selling price. You should be prepared for several thousand dollars of maintenance.

 

Ouch, several thousand you think? I do intend to get a PPI before purchasing.

 

Our 2012 CTS Luxury (3.0 LFW) is known as Magoo. Many of her issues and adventures are documented on these forums.

-How long have you owned your CTS?

We've owned Magoo for about 5 months. Been driving her regularly for about 3 to 4 months.

-How many miles did the car have when purchased?

177K miles.

-How many miles does your car have now?

180.5K miles

-If any, how many times has the car left you stranded?

Almost left me stranded once. She overheated when the radiator fan motor died, but the gauge became critical and she started throwing error messages on the display as I was pulling in our driveway. It could've been worse.

She left her previous owner stranded a lot with electrical issues and dead batteries. I still haven't entirely fixed that. I've worked around it with a battery cutoff switch. She doesn't drain the battery with the negative cable switched off.

-How much have you spent on maintenance and repairs?

We spent about $500 on 4 new tires, about $100 to have those tires mounted and balanced, and a total of around $600 on new discounted parts for catch up maintenance and repairs. Most of the parts were from RockAuto and would have been two to three times more from a dealership. I am pretty OCD about using "original equipment" parts for most things. I do my own repair work, so labor charges aren't part of my accounting. Labor for what I've done would probably total 8 to 10 hours so far at flat rate.

I still have more repairs and catch up maintenance to do.

The sunroof still leaks badly from the rear drains. My work around for that is to always park her in the driveway pointed downhill. Our driveway is pretty steep where I park her. I've cleared the front drains already, they were clogged as well. The carpet stays dry this way. There's a lot of work involved in removing the head liner and pillar trim to get to all the potential issues in the rear drains. Ours seem to be disconnected or leaking at the top where the hoses attach to the sunroof frame drain nipples. The water is running down the outside of the drain hoses.

I think water (from the leaky sunroof drains) in the rear fuse block area was part of the electrical problems. It think September will be the month I really focus on the battery drain issue.

I also think the price you have is pretty high for an 8 year old car with average mileage.

Start your test drive at a drive through carwash. Take a 30 minute test drive after that, then check the carpet in front of the front and rear seats. If it's wet, the sunroof drains are leaking. That's a common, known issue with these cars.

The timing chains will go out. They last longer in the 3.0 than in the 3.6, but the design is the same, and the oil level check neglect is just as bad, which is what contributes to the timing chain issues. Replace them before you see metal in the oil and before you get codes. If you do them early enough, you may not have to replace the phasers. Chains and lower and intermediate sprockets run $200+ for the parts on the discounted sites or Amazon. With all 4 phasers and actuator solenoid valves, the price goes up to $750+ for the parts, and it's a pretty labor intensive job.

We paid $11,599 less to purchase Magoo than the one you're looking at, and I think we've gotten a good deal on ours. I expected a lot of repairs and catch up maintenance. We did get excellent maintenance records with Magoo, so I know what's been taken care of and what needs to be done.

 

Our 2012 CTS Luxury (3.0 LFW) is known as Magoo. Many of her issues and adventures are documented on these forums.

We've owned Magoo for about 5 months. Been driving her regularly for about 3 to 4 months.

177K miles.

180.5K miles

Almost left me stranded once. She overheated when the radiator fan motor died, but the gauge became critical and she started throwing error messages on the display as I was pulling in our driveway. It could've been worse.

She left her previous owner stranded a lot with electrical issues and dead batteries. I still haven't entirely fixed that. I've worked around it with a battery cutoff switch. She doesn't drain the battery with the negative cable switched off.

We spent about $500 on 4 new tires, about $100 to have those tires mounted and balanced, and a total of around $600 on new discounted parts for catch up maintenance and repairs. Most of the parts were from RockAuto and would have been two to three times more from a dealership. I am pretty OCD about using "original equipment" parts for most things. I do my own repair work, so labor charges aren't part of my accounting. Labor for what I've done would probably total 8 to 10 hours so far at flat rate.

I still have more repairs and catch up maintenance to do.

The sunroof still leaks badly from the rear drains. My work around for that is to always park her in the driveway pointed downhill. Our driveway is pretty steep where I park her. I've cleared the front drains already, they were clogged as well. The carpet stays dry this way. There's a lot of work involved in removing the head liner and pillar trim to get to all the potential issues in the rear drains. Ours seem to be disconnected or leaking at the top where the hoses attach to the sunroof frame drain nipples. The water is running down the outside of the drain hoses.

I think water (from the leaky sunroof drains) in the rear fuse block area was part of the electrical problems. It think September will be the month I really focus on the battery drain issue.

I also think the price you have is pretty high for an 8 year old car with average mileage.

Start your test drive at a drive through carwash. Take a 30 minute test drive after that, then check the carpet in front of the front and rear seats. If it's wet, the sunroof drains are leaking. That's a common, known issue with these cars.

The timing chains will go out. They last longer in the 3.0 than in the 3.6, but the design is the same, and the oil level check neglect is just as bad, which is what contributes to the timing chain issues. Replace them before you see metal in the oil and before you get codes. If you do them early enough, you may not have to replace the phasers. Chains and lower and intermediate sprockets run $200+ for the parts on the discounted sites or Amazon. With all 4 phasers and actuator solenoid valves, the price goes up to $750+ for the parts, and it's a pretty labor intensive job.

We paid $11,599 less to purchase Magoo than the one you're looking at, and I think we've gotten a good deal on ours. I expected a lot of repairs and catch up maintenance. We did get excellent maintenance records with Magoo, so I know what's been taken care of and what needs to be done.

That’s a lot of good information and advice. I would have never thought of taking it through a car wash on a test drive. Thanks for the lengthy post. I’ll look for one cheaper. It sounds like Magoo was a great deal.

 

I will agree with @Lifespeed insofar as these are sports sedans and there are components that are engineered for performance over durability and 123k miles is pushing the car into major suspension work (unless it has been done), wheel bearings, gaskets, sensors, etc. If you're getting this work done at a garage, you are looking at thousands (easily $500/wheel for wheel bearings alone).

None of these are deal breakers but here's the conundrum about these cars: people are buying these used because they are really good performance luxury sedans and they are more affordable now than when they were new BUT if you don't maintain them, they won't perform as they were designed to.

The real focus is about the suspension components - shocks of course but also bushings and other components. Unfortunately, many original owners of these cars bought them despite their sports-tuned firmer ride and so these owners just let the suspensions go - and that is almost assuredly what you're buying when you're buying high mileage. If your interest is more about the style and luxury, you could continue to ignore the deteriorating suspension and forego those costs. The engine/transmission is reasonably reliable so you are mostly looking at wear items like brakes, bearings, O2 sensors, fluids, filters, etc. Even these can add up but you're saving a fortune versus new and that's the price you pay for buying used.

 

I will agree with @Lifespeed insofar as these are sports sedans and there are components that are engineered for performance over durability and 123k miles is pushing the car into major suspension work (unless it has been done), wheel bearings, gaskets, sensors, etc. If you're getting this work done at a garage, you are looking at thousands (easily $500/wheel for wheel bearings alone).

None of these are deal breakers but here's the conundrum about these cars: people are buying these used because they are really good performance luxury sedans and they are more affordable now than when they were new BUT if you don't maintain them, they won't perform as they were designed to.

The real focus is about the suspension components - shocks of course but also bushings and other components. Unfortunately, many original owners of these cars bought them despite their sports-tuned firmer ride and so these owners just let the suspensions go - and that is almost assuredly what you're buying when you're buying high mileage. If your interest is more about the style and luxury, you could continue to ignore the deteriorating suspension and forego those costs. The engine/transmission is reasonably reliable so you are mostly looking at wear items like brakes, bearings, O2 sensors, fluids, filters, etc. Even these can add up but you're saving a fortune versus new and that's the price you pay for buying used.

I definitely fall into the crowd that cares less about the sporty performance of the CTS. In fact, I prefer the FE1 suspension. These are the qualities of the CTS, specifically the 3.0, that are most attractive to me:

1. It’s a Cadillac.
2. It’s RWD.
3. It runs on regular 87 octane gasoline.
4. The infotainment system is much less invasive compared to competing vehicles.
5. The 3.0 is less susceptible to timing chain failure.
6. The 3.0 typically comes with FE1 suspension.

so low in fact that in the 6 plus years on this part of the Cadillac Forum (CTS 2nd Generation) I've yet to read one timing chain failure in the 3.0...proper care, oil and changes should mitigate any issues but they do still wear out eventually...

Bill

Exactly! I have scoured the forums using advanced search, and I have yet to find any mention of timing chain failure on a 3.0 CTS. On the other hand, I have read the woes of many SRX 3.0 owners who had the timing chains fail.

 

We’ve had a 2011 CTS Sportwagon AWD with the 3.0 since new. It now has 231,000 km on it, and the engine is as smooth, quiet and powerful as it was when we drove it off the showroom floor. It’s been an excellent powertrain. More recently, I’ve had an intermittent’check engine’ light come on, and the idle can be a little rough at times, but it never misses a beat when you touch the accelerator. The dealer thinks that it may be a dirty exhaust valve. And, it still gets 29 MPG US on the highway. It’s been a truly excellent car. (I always use Mobil 1 for oil changes.)

 

2010 CTS sedan and just passed 150,000 km....(winter driven)
3x wheel hubs replaced
Water pump replaced
A/C condenser replaced
all 4 brake discs and pads done once
Spark plugs just recently replaced
still lovin it as much as day one March 2010.....

 

Wow! My '10 is only one month older - but its odo reads 100,000 km further - than yours. Good on you!

 

maybe I'll have to look for those SRXs with 3.0 engines and timing chain issues but I've not seen issues with them but have with the 3.6s going back to the 1st Gen SRX...

the 3.0 LF1/LFX was used in many GM vehicles...I haven't read of any issues mirroring the problems with timing gains in the various 3.6 engines...

Bill

 

I think part of it is that with the 3.0 (LF1/LFW), the chains last as long as you would reasonably expect. Nobody expects them to last forever. Changing the chains at 180,000 +/- miles isn't anything unusual for a DOHC engine with multiple chains. It's pretty much routine maintenance. Maybe a little pricey, but not unexpected.

The problem with the 3.6L is how quickly they seem to stretch/wear. With the 3.6L engines (LY7/LLT/LFX), you see them failing (badly) as quickly as 60,000 miles. That is the problem.

 

The problem with the 3.6L is how quickly they seem to stretch/wear. With the 3.6L engines (LY7/LLT/LFX), you see them failing (badly) as quickly as 60,000 miles. That is the problem.

Early failures were a vendor problem, I think with poor heat treatment. I replaced my timing chains at 135K miles after the MIL light came on only once, and rattled at startup. I think a cam phaser failed to lock at shutdown. Over the next several months the MIL light never came on again, but I replaced the timing chains and cam phasers anyway. The improvement in throttle response, smoothness and overall performance was dramatic. Also GM issued a software update stretching the MIL light limits to the max to reduce warranty costs.

I've had other V-engines with DOHC, the timing chains didn't perform well to 180K miles on any of them. They may not skip time, but performance is definitely lost and chains are routine maintenance, despite the owners wishing otherwise.

 

Yeah they were, you just didn't know it.

Every vehicle I owned except two made it considerably past 180K miles. I only had problems on the two Caddies. Never a noise, never a code, never a performance issue. Please explain.

 

Every vehicle I owned except two made it considerably past 180K miles. I only had problems on the two Caddies. Never a noise, never a code, never a performance issue. Please explain.

The chains were stretched and the performance was lost. It happened slowly so you didn't notice. MIL light for cam timing isn't designed into all DOHC engines. V engines are more prone to wear than inline.

 

Bought my 2014 CTS

I’ve had my 2014 CTS since 2019, it had 48k on it, presently has 59k. I’ve put struts, tires and brakes on it and it feels and drives like new. I wanted a CTS for years, no problems at all with it, ohhh wait the Cadillac Cue system quit and was too expensive to replace, the CD/FM works fine. I still luv it, it is the perfect luxury ride for me.

 

Second Gen CTS didn't have CUE. My '14 V Wagon doesn't have it. The' 15 V Coupe does not have it. My '16 ATS-V does have it.

 

Second Gen CTS didn't have CUE. My '14 V Wagon doesn't have it. The' 15 V Coupe does not have it. My '16 ATS-V does have it.

Doesn't have struts either...

 

I owned a '10 CTS base 3.0 for about a year and a half before upgrading to a '13 premium 3.6. The 3.6 and associated premium features make it an insanely better car. As for the timing chain issues, I'd say they are the least of your worries. The 3.0 is not known for them, and the issue was corrected mostly on the LFX iteration of the 3.6 High Feature v6 engine in MY '12 and onward. I have not had a single engine related issue with either of my vehicles in 2.5 years and were both (relatively) high miles , 120K when I sold the first and currently 93K on the second. As others have mentioned, deferred maintenance will be the biggest thing with purchasing a CTS of this generation.

Items to expect to replace (I did on both cars and others on this forum have done frequently, so I've seen) :

Motor Mounts
Shocks/Struts
Alternator
Control Arms
Probably Tires

I've also done a PS rack, wheel bearings, tie rod ends, water pump, and radiator fan on the '13. That's only in terms of needed repairs- I've also spent several thousand on each for cosmetic upkeep/repair.

Just a helpful tip if you do buy one, I'd set aside a few thousand dollars for repairs beforehand and only do repairs with OEM GM parts. I've wasted a lot of money trying to save money- these cars are allergic to aftermarket parts, so it seems.

 

Unsure if anyone has mentioned the replacement of headlights. There are pretty good instructions on YouTube for handling the job yourself. It sure shocked me, though, to learn I'd have to partially remove my front bumper on my 2012 CT4

I have 87K on my car, and it hasn't given me any problems. Oil changes at the dealer are great when you have a coupon. Tires changed out. Spark plugs will be replaced by end of year.

 

I bought my 2010 CTS Luxury trim 3.0L wagon used with 34k miles on it and it drove it all the way to 173k miles with no major issues to speak of (aside from the usual maintenance items that need attending to) until a wrong way drunk driver (her third DUI offense!) ended my wagon’s fantastic run one awful night in a scary head-on collision. Not only was my 3.0L LF1 engine (2013 LFW 3.0L same but will also run on E85) nearly bulletproof for the 8+ years I drove it, but the car itself was built like a battle tank, come to find. I walked away from that awful wreck under my own power with only minor cuts, knocks, bruises and scrapes. You’re making a solid buy as far as the car goes and it will give its life to preserve you, should it come to that. I can assure you of this from first-hand experience that I would just assume not have had the displeasure of.

In short, the 3.0L is able and very smooth, though not nearly as beefy as its bigger brother, the 3.6L LFX. If you find you prefer it, then great. It’s a solid low-maintenance power plant in my personal experience. You’ll do well.

Just a word of note in fairness, but these GM DI engines all seem to run hard on water pumps. I replaced mine twice and never got more than 90k miles on any of them. If you’re handy, a new water pump for the 3.0L runs about $80-$120 depending on where you buy it and the job to replace it is fairly easy and straightforward. One of the easier maintenance jobs to do on this engine. Use the metal gasket with the built-in silicone seal and you’ll be leak-free. The fiber gaskets are troublesome and often leak, I’d steer clear of them.

Good luck!

 

Btw, never had any issues whatsoever related to my timing chains on the 3.0L LF1, even up to 173k miles. Solid.

 

That’s very reassuring, thank you for sharing you experience. Have you had any major repair bills in the time you’ve owned it?

 

2011 CTS AWD luxury 3.0, 65000 miles
Best car I have ever owned. In 9 years I had one wheel bearing failed and water in backup camera.
Some minor moonroof leak. Condensation in headlights and leaky front engine cover were taken care of while vehicle was under warranty.
Only one regret, underpowered, wish I had 3.6
Unfortunately I will not move to newer model due to horrendous interior design with touch CUE crap.
Also, body stile that can't stand to Kia, lol.

 

Wow, that’s damn near Honda levels of reliability. I guess it really just comes down good maintenance. Personally, I don’t mind the underpowered 3.0. I’ve driven econoboxes my whole life (1993 Toyota Camry, 1997 Ford Contour, 2005 Toyota Prius, and my current vehicle, 2009 Honda Civic), so even the 3.0 is a huge jump in power and acceleration. Thanks for sharing you experience.

 

CUE isn't that bad. Better than Porsche which doesn't offer Android Auto. They offer the Apple version, but no AA. Screw 'em.

 

At 168K the chains should have been replaced despite passing the exceedingly-loose limits in the PCM.

 

My 2011 Sportwagon RWD with 3.0 (162k miles) has had zero engine problems, had the transmission fluid/service performed @ 100k miles, replaced spark plugs, belt and tensioner also. I always change the oil/filter around 7-10% of oil life (6500-7000 miles, Mobil1 & Wix filter). I did have to replace the driveshaft around 140k miles due to thumping under acceleration.

I have a set of shocks sitting on the workbench waiting for install due to the stock one being a little saggy. I don't drive this car for work anymore, but it's nice to have around...besides, who's gonna buy a CTS wagon with 160k+ miles on it?

 

I have a 2013 3.0 Sedan. It was like a lemon the first 3-4 years but since then has been really good other than the water pump and passenger seat motor.

-How long have you owned your CTS?

I purchased in Dec 2013, so its been over 7.5 years. The car has been in service over 9 years.

-How many miles did the car have when purchased?

My CTS had 14,500 miles when I purchased it.

-How many miles does your car have now?

It's over 105,000 miles currently.

-If any, how many times has the car left you stranded?

Stranded is a relative term, as a dead battery can leave you stranded. Refer to the repair list below.

-How much have you spent on maintenance and repairs?

Cost of repairs is tricky, long story short I had a huge battle with GM and got like a full extended warranty that lasts until 2023 so I haven't paid for anything other than maintenance.

Early or Unexpected items that broke

• Onstar system and console was replaced (2013)
• Heated seat button, console, seat replaced (2014)
• Driver seat frame replaced (2014)
• Left windshield spray replaced (2015)
• power steering gear replaced (2015)
• power steering inlet and outlet hose and seals and spacers replaced (2015)
• front shocks and rack and pinion replaced (2015)
• steering wheel bushing and sway bar bushing replaced (2015)
• right side upper control arm and bracket, both lower arm control and brackets, sway bar and sway bar links and bushings replaced (2016)
• replaced the SIR coil replaced (2016)
• airbag light malfunction and reprogrammed (2016)
• Replaced driver's seat belt tensioner due to anchor plate failure. Replaced drivers seat anchor plate. (2016)
• Windshield Washer Fluid resevoir replaced (2018)
• evaporative emission canister purge solenoid replaced (2018)
• Water pump, thermostat o ring, cap replaced (2019)
• Front passenger seat actuator and motor replaced (2019)

Maintenance Items Replaced (normal stuff expected to go out)

• both headlight bulbs went out and replaced once
• Battery replaced once
• TPMS sensor went out then came back on
• Engine air filter, passenger air filter replaced many times
• wiper blades replaced once (car was always garaged at home and work in the first 6 years)
• Front brake pads replaced once, back ones have been good since I got the car
• spark plugs replaced once at 100k
• all 4 tires replaced once since I got the car

Other than that, just have had the oil and filter changes and other fluid changes like ATF, rear differential, coolant, power steering, brake fluid, etc.

I've probably spent about $4000 on all the maintenance items to date. $0 for the items in the first section. She's been good since 2020 but then again due to the pandemic I drive maybe 1/4 of what I used to.

 

My buddy just bought a few wagons for his company & swapped out the engines with refurbished engines.

I just bought a 2011 CTS & did the same thing, engine swap.