I am being told that I need to have the timing chain replaced on my 2014 the V-sport. I have less than 70,000 miles on the car and the repair is being quoted at $19,000. That is more than the car is worth. I have seen elsewhere that GM has extended the engine warranty in response to timing chain issues on some of the 3.6 L direct injection engines. Any ideas whether that should apply to a 2014 TwinTurbo? Anybody have this issue and have any constructive advice?
2014 CTS V-sport timing chain replacement
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Applies to earlier versions of the DI V6, more info:
LFX 3.6 Timing Chain Issue - Feedback Requested
A fellow member asked whether I considered replacing the timing chain on my 2014 ATS Luxury 3.6L LFX engine with just under 100K miles. I had not but did some internet research (LOL) and came across several threads of early LFX engines had timing chain issues. As I understand it GM "solved" the...
www.cadillacforums.com
For sure get a second opinion. Welcome to the forum, and as long as you're on here, check out other useful info on your car. Like need to make sure your diff recall got done.
I should note - I am in So Cal, so I am sure that inflated hourly labor costs are part of what’s driving the cost estimate. Everything here costs more. It blows.
The diagnosis and estimate is from the local dealer. They claim they have to take most of the engine apart just to get at the problem. Takes a long time, so lots of labor charges.
They also claim it would be easier, and only slightly more expensive, to just replace the engine.
I should also note - I know squat about any of this. I doubt I could get $20k for the car without this issue, and even with only 66k miles on it. So if I can’t find a better solution, I will end up selling for salvage.
Really disappointing. My 4th caddy, fist time I have had anything like this happen.
The diagnosis and estimate is from the local dealer. They claim they have to take most of the engine apart just to get at the problem. Takes a long time, so lots of labor charges.
They also claim it would be easier, and only slightly more expensive, to just replace the engine.
I should also note - I know squat about any of this. I doubt I could get $20k for the car without this issue, and even with only 66k miles on it. So if I can’t find a better solution, I will end up selling for salvage.
Really disappointing. My 4th caddy, fist time I have had anything like this happen.
Not much of what you have been told makes sense, so definitely get a second opinion. What are the symptoms of the problem? Even with inflated labor prices, the pricing is ridiculous and should be under $5K. And it is questionable if a well-maintained engine would have timing chain problems at 70K miles, although nothing is impossible. It was the older LLT engine that had timing chain problems, not our LF3.
While timing chains do eventually wear out, this should be expected more around 150K miles than 70K. Also, keep in mind a sharp technician can use a scanner to inform him how far from nominal the cam position sensors indicate the timing chain has stretched. You may want to ask for this diagnostic, specifically. If they give you a blank stare, go elsewhere. After all, how hard is it to plug into the OBD II port with the GM GDS2 scanner?
While timing chains do eventually wear out, this should be expected more around 150K miles than 70K. Also, keep in mind a sharp technician can use a scanner to inform him how far from nominal the cam position sensors indicate the timing chain has stretched. You may want to ask for this diagnostic, specifically. If they give you a blank stare, go elsewhere. After all, how hard is it to plug into the OBD II port with the GM GDS2 scanner?
Hi.
Just a general comment on oil change frequency:
I know the oil monitoring system is very sophisticated but I will tell you from my personal experiences of maintaining vehicle since 1966 - change the oil and filter no more than 3,000 Miles. Use a top tier oil, like Castrol Edge, and a high end filter like Wix or Napa Gold (they are the same), AC Delco, or Purolater. There is nothing more important that you can do to the engine.
Manufacturers like to brag about low maintenance, so the oil monitoring system is geared for that. And really there is very little engine maintenance to do on the CTS - Change the oil every 3,000 Miles or once a year, whichever comes first, and change the Coolant every 5 years.
I've owned several cars over the past decades, 3 of which I've owned for more than 40 years and a 1/4 million Miles. They all worked like a Rolex.
M.....
Just a general comment on oil change frequency:
I know the oil monitoring system is very sophisticated but I will tell you from my personal experiences of maintaining vehicle since 1966 - change the oil and filter no more than 3,000 Miles. Use a top tier oil, like Castrol Edge, and a high end filter like Wix or Napa Gold (they are the same), AC Delco, or Purolater. There is nothing more important that you can do to the engine.
Manufacturers like to brag about low maintenance, so the oil monitoring system is geared for that. And really there is very little engine maintenance to do on the CTS - Change the oil every 3,000 Miles or once a year, whichever comes first, and change the Coolant every 5 years.
I've owned several cars over the past decades, 3 of which I've owned for more than 40 years and a 1/4 million Miles. They all worked like a Rolex.
M.....
From what I've learned watching Youtube and reading about the timing chain issue, the most fundamental problem was lack of oil level maintenance and changes. There were factors leading to that including the oil monitoring interval & PCV valve, but changing the oil on time is the key. Since this is a direct injection and variable valve timing engine, erring on the more frequent side isn't a bad idea. I've decided to change mine at no more than 5k, which is somewhere around 70% on the oil monitor I'm guessing. I looked up all my free oil changes from the dealer under the new car maintenance deal and they averaged 7000 miles by following the oil monitor.
Yes, 7K miles seems to be the typical OLM interval. I think that is reasonable using good synthetic oil, though I don't begrudge others their more-frequent changes. Checking the level a few times between oil changes, the LF3 does not appear to consume oil through this interval.
The LLT chain issues involved longer programmed OLM intervals so people who didn't ever check their oil would run low with an oil-consuming engine, quality-control of their chain vendor, along with switching to the silent chain type rather than the noisier roller chain.
My 2009 LLT was not (I think) ever run low on oil, and had regular maintenance. It had slight chain symptoms at 130K miles, and a single incident of the P0008 code which never returned in the ensuing 3 months. Replacing all the timing components, including the actuators, fixed hesitation at throttle tip-in, quieted the engine and restored power and fuel economy.
It is important to source quality components for this repair, I used OEM. My understanding is some brand-name timing chain companies are sourcing components from China. Control of the manufacturing and heat-treatment process is critical for these parts to live a long life.
The LLT chain issues involved longer programmed OLM intervals so people who didn't ever check their oil would run low with an oil-consuming engine, quality-control of their chain vendor, along with switching to the silent chain type rather than the noisier roller chain.
My 2009 LLT was not (I think) ever run low on oil, and had regular maintenance. It had slight chain symptoms at 130K miles, and a single incident of the P0008 code which never returned in the ensuing 3 months. Replacing all the timing components, including the actuators, fixed hesitation at throttle tip-in, quieted the engine and restored power and fuel economy.
It is important to source quality components for this repair, I used OEM. My understanding is some brand-name timing chain companies are sourcing components from China. Control of the manufacturing and heat-treatment process is critical for these parts to live a long life.
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I have a 2014 Vsport with same issue. They call it a 25hour job with 2k in [email protected] $6100.00. They said i was really low on oil but last oil change was in the fall around 7300 miles. Check engine light came on Sunday and it was in the shop Monday. I was hoping they were going to offer to trade it in but 15k on top of MSRP is whats on the lot. As they say, "its cheaper to keep her".
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Just had the chains on the wife's 3.6 CTS DI and with new water pump and cam phasers included it came to $3,300.00 so don't go for that $19k crap. Part of the intake system would have to be removed and reinstalled which should only add maybe 2 hours of labor, 1 for removal, 1 to reinstall so even at $150/hr. would only add $300.
Helms or MistaMasta, did you guys ever get your issues fixed. I have a 2014 with 103k and just recently popped codes for multiple cam position sensors but was still running ok. I replaced the 3 sensors it was calling out and started running like crap and went into limp mode and threw out some fuel regulator codes. I put the old sensors back thinking I may have got the wrong ones and the issues remained. Researching the codes lead me here in a roundabout way so curious if you guys went through with the timing chain replacement and how involved it was if you did it yourself?
It's a legitimate choice to make; ditching the car rather than do a major repair. However, this level of car isn't a commonly-available appliance like a Toyota Camry. One may do well to factor scarcity and difficulty of finding a replacement car into the decision.
The complete timing chain repair can be had for around $4K, depending on your location, with all-new parts including cam phasers. Except for the early 2008 and 2009 LLT engines, timing chains should last closer to 120K miles than 60K miles. With a repair like this, you really need to have confidence in the skill of the mechanic. Be careful.
there seems to be much to be suspicious about in this thread...1 or 2 posts and then gone...
the $19K quote may have been for a new engine (when I bought my extended warranty from a Cadillac dealership I was told the engine replacement was $19K)...there is quite a difference in the regular CTS 3.6 and the 3.6 TT (LF3) engines...
following any standard of maintenance should never result in an engine needing its timing chains replaced in 60K miles...the earlier issues with a different 3.6 from GM ended many years ago...we have a different engine
the $19K quote may have been for a new engine (when I bought my extended warranty from a Cadillac dealership I was told the engine replacement was $19K)...there is quite a difference in the regular CTS 3.6 and the 3.6 TT (LF3) engines...
following any standard of maintenance should never result in an engine needing its timing chains replaced in 60K miles...the earlier issues with a different 3.6 from GM ended many years ago...we have a different engine
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