Cadillac Owners Forum banner

1 - 20 of 79 Posts

·
Registered
1996 Eldorado, 2012 CTS 3.6
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Made a u turn last week and Car stalled and basically died..hard brakes, hard steering , car stumbles, "reduced power" .

was able to drive it to autozone where only one code came up for the maf sensor..replaced MAF and cleared the code,

still had same problem.

car starts up FINE, then after the initial idle around 1200 rpms for about 20 seconds where it idles just FINE... it drops down to 600 or 700 rpms and gets really choppy and sometimes surges/idle increase for a second ...
If i step on the throttle it will either rev up or stumble and die. If i rev it to around 1800 or 2000 rpms its FINE...as soon as i take my foot off gas pedal , it will drop down to 400 then get really choppy and eventually die.

Drove it again to autozone for 2nd scan and a bunch of codes came up! PO 174,131,151,171,191
also PO300,P228C,P2270,P2272

ive changed the MAF sensor, throttle body, spark plugs, air filter ...the only thing i can do before i take it to a mechanic is the ignition coils..please let me know if youve had this problem and found an answer

p.s. I DO hear a small put put or pop pop coming from the timing chain area, but didnt see a code for that..whats the diagnoses for bad timing chain?
 

·
Registered
08 CTS DI
Joined
·
1,597 Posts
More specific info about the motor needs to be listed like mileage and any recent previous repairs, codes, or unusual behavior. Don't replace another part at this point, the parts store is the only benefactor so far. You need to check all of your fuses and look up everyone of those codes and don't throw away any of your old parts because if replacing them did not fix the problem chances are pretty good there is nothing wrong with them.

You also need to make sure your battery is in good shape and that your charging system is charging and delivering more than 13 volts, check it at the dash. Make sure your battery terminals have good contact at the posts. Take a look at the computer under the hood, that kind of code onslaught could also mean a bad PCM.

P228C says your computer has detected a fuel pressure problem for starters. That's interesting because your troubles started during a turn when the fuel moves around in the tank.
 

·
Registered
08 CTS DI
Joined
·
1,597 Posts
Go to the passenger rear of the car and look at the bottom of the tank and report back about anything out of the ordinary, like a stain, or the smell of fuel. Also check for fuel leaks under the hood.
 

·
Registered
2008 CTS Base Manual Tran
Joined
·
507 Posts
Also, did you replace with aftermarket parts? If you start replacing multiple parts with non-OEM parts, you could cause other unrelated problems due to a part not playing well with the ECM. Save those old parts as Joseph advised in case.
 

·
Registered
2008 CTS Base Manual Tran
Joined
·
507 Posts
I would also check for vacuum leaks based on codes. Any chance you threw some of these codes while working on replacing parts? Have you started it up without all the intake components in place? If you can't run it long enough to fully cycle the tests, you may need to clear the codes and see what comes back indicating your actual current problems.
 

·
Registered
1996 Eldorado, 2012 CTS 3.6
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
so i started it the car up just to move it back so my wife could park her car. Now the thing is idling fine and running perfect.
I even changed the oil and now its just idling .seems like "moving" the car in reverse did something

when i changed any of those aftermarket parts, did my computer relearn anything? throttle body, maf sensor

no , i dont smell any fuel. my mileage is 89,223 and no recent repairs i've had the car for 2 yrs and only had to replace the passenger rear bearing/hub
 

·
Registered
08 CTS DI
Joined
·
1,597 Posts
...seems like "moving" the car in reverse did something
If only it was that easy. The car has had time to cool off. Everything we can come up with for you to check, consider checking, there's no way everything is okay now with all of those codes coming up, April Fools has already come and gone for the year. Keep looking.
 

·
Registered
1996 Eldorado, 2012 CTS 3.6
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
agree 100 pct.

so i go out and drive it, good for 20 minutes..then it stumbles when i push the gas pedal, limped back home about 2 blocks.

im in the driveway and start it up again, hold the gas pedal at 1000 rpms..fine, Then i hear a click from the "Throttle body" and the rpms jump up and down, cant hold it steady at 1000. It goes up to 1400 and back to 1000.

so i turn the car off and turn it on again, now its idling fine at 600...then i hear the click and its still idling fine, 30 seconds later and i hear another click and it stumbles and dies

now this is an aftermarket amazon throttle body, im wondering if i go with an OEM will it make a difference?obviously the clicking is coming from the TPS/electronics side of the throttle body

gonna go and order a OEM throttle body or do you guys suggest another option?

i read somewhere that it might have to be :"flashed or programmed" at the dealer,,..sound right?
 

·
Registered
1996 Eldorado, 2012 CTS 3.6
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
yeah, i checked for fuel and vacuum leaks and got none...Also, this throttle body is OEM, its an AC Delco with the correct part number.12670981

how do i check for 13 volts "at the dash?" Can i check for codes at the dash?
this is not something im familiar with.

the comment i read that i was reffering to earlier is this

"On most GM applications not only is their a recalibration process as the ECM relaeans the now carbonless surface, but also a idle relearn which we had to use a tech2 device to force the vehicle to relearn both sequences"
 

·
Registered
08 CTS DI
Joined
·
1,597 Posts
You can find the voltage reading at the dash by pressing the right of the three buttons on the left dash that controls your mileage display. I doubt you have a voltage problem as by now the car would not start from a dead battery, suggesting the alternator quit, which has been known to set numerous codes.

There is a throttle body relearn procedure that does not require a scan tool, check your owners manual it may be there. I have never bothered to perform it because my car does it automatically at shut off, I hear it perform the procedure. I may try it one day just to see if there is a difference. GM makes changes to the programming at will so it may not be the same for all (2012 was the change year to a Delphi PCM), but I have never performed it, not even after replacing the throttle body as preventive maint. You still need to check the fuel pressure and that's done manually. You may be able to rent a pressure gauge from Autozone.

You need to look up the codes and it appears you have not done this yet. It is important to do so, because I doubt there was a problem with any of the parts you have replaced so far. You have to address the codes, or risk rebuilding the motor with new parts before you finally find the cause.
 

·
Registered
1996 Eldorado, 2012 CTS 3.6
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Go to the passenger rear of the car and look at the bottom of the tank and report back about anything out of the ordinary, like a stain, or the smell of fuel. Also check for fuel leaks under the hood.
thanks for your response joseph, i didnt find any fuel leaks or smell.
 

·
Registered
1996 Eldorado, 2012 CTS 3.6
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
You can find the voltage reading at the dash by pressing the right of the three buttons on the left dash that controls your mileage display. I doubt you have a voltage problem as by now the car would not start from a dead battery, suggesting the alternator quit, which has been known to set numerous codes.

There is a throttle body relearn procedure that does not require a scan tool, check your owners manual it may be there. I have never bothered to perform it because my car does it automatically at shut off, I hear it perform the procedure. I may try it one day just to see if there is a difference. GM makes changes to the programming at will so it may not be the same for all (2012 was the change year to a Delphi PCM), but I have never performed it, not even after replacing the throttle body as preventive maint. You still need to check the fuel pressure and that's done manually. You may be able to rent a pressure gauge from Autozone.

You need to look up the codes and it appears you have not done this yet. It is important to do so, because I doubt there was a problem with any of the parts you have replaced so far. You have to address the codes, or risk rebuilding the motor with new parts before you finally find the cause.
you are correct."address the codes, or risk rebuilding the motor with new parts before you finally find the cause"..

originally the only code i got was for the maf sensor, i replaced that first then the spark plugs and air filter on my own . and the throttle body even though there was no code for that.

tomorrow i will drive to autozone (closest code reader) and go through the codes one by one. I will report back here on what codes i get.
I appreciate your and all others help on this, ive been so busy fighting with this car and had i come here first, im sure i wouldve save a couple hundred bucks before getting closerto a answer
 

·
Registered
1996 Eldorado, 2012 CTS 3.6
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
so i drove up there since they were still open.

i got

Definition..PO131 o2 circuit low voltage bank 1 sensor 1 electrical signal had low voltage

PO151 o2 circuit low voltage bank 2 sensor 1
PO171 system too lean bank 1
PO174 system too lean bank 2
PO191 ruel rail pressure sensor range/performance
 

·
Registered
08 CTS DI
Joined
·
1,597 Posts
so i drove up there since they were still open.

i got

Definition..PO131 o2 circuit low voltage bank 1 sensor 1 electrical signal had low voltage

PO151 o2 circuit low voltage bank 2 sensor 1
PO171 system too lean bank 1
PO174 system too lean bank 2
PO191 ruel rail pressure sensor range/performance
Good job, now google those codes with Cadillac CTS attached without specifying a year and see if you can find some posts that might help you home in on what's going on, although I suspect a fuel pressure problem, or maybe even that pressure sensor. Autozone is not likely going to be able to offer you much additional help because their main job is to sell parts. You might get lucky and find someone that knows how to use the scanner for more than code reading, but at this point you should try to get your own to make things easier.
 

·
Registered
1996 Eldorado, 2012 CTS 3.6
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
thanks joseph, you've been a big help!

with this car, a scanner seems to be a necessity.its like a computer on wheels

now im wondering when this timing chain is gonna go..
 

·
Registered
Go ahead, blame me. Everybody does 🙄
Joined
·
7,023 Posts
Fix your problems at hand first.
Worry about the chains IF the codes come up for it.

A code reader (one that reads more than just CEL codes) is a good investment that pays for itself after one use. Can be had for under a Benjamin.
Good luck moving ahead.
 

·
Registered
1996 Eldorado, 2012 CTS 3.6
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Fix your problems at hand first.
Worry about the chains IF the codes come up for it.

A code reader (one that reads more than just CEL codes) is a good investment that pays for itself after one use. Can be had for under a Benjamin.
Good luck moving ahead.
thanks Long, appreciate it.
you got a link for a scanner you recommend?
 

·
Registered
Go ahead, blame me. Everybody does 🙄
Joined
·
7,023 Posts
It's a Padgett recommendation that I purchased and like very much, except for the fact that I have to use it which is never good news.
Some go with the Tech II clones, but this one does everything I need within my scope of work...
 

·
Registered
Cadillac
Joined
·
185 Posts
so i drove up there since they were still open.

i got

Definition..PO131 o2 circuit low voltage bank 1 sensor 1 electrical signal had low voltage

PO151 o2 circuit low voltage bank 2 sensor 1
PO171 system too lean bank 1
PO174 system too lean bank 2
PO191 ruel rail pressure sensor range/performance
Check to see if the fuel rail pressure with a fuel pressure test tool, maybe auto parts lends you 1 and is OK as your DTCs all reporting way too lean. You need to find out what OEM pressure is either like 43 or 58 PSI ?

Check very closely to all couplers from MAF to TB have no leaks or airbridge has cracks
Just to know, see if the O2 sensors heater fuse(s) has not blown

Check battery voltage with key on, be close to 13 volts and when at idle about 14 volts.
Check all fuel injectors wiring connectors are firmly plugged in
Possible bad fuel or wrong type like E15

Possible timing chain has jumped a tooth ?

Would be way easier with a full OBD-II scanner.
 
1 - 20 of 79 Posts
Top