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2011 CTS 3.0 AWD nightmare

7.5K views 28 replies 8 participants last post by  Racer-X-  
#1 ·
Car ran perfect until 165k no issues no lights at all!
At that point it developed a rough idle which progressed into almost not running at idle without throttle and laggy accel.

During the next 5 month of daily driving and swapping parts the following are changed.

Cam sensors all no change
Oil pressure solenoids all no change
Finally agreed with the mechanic it must be the timing chain!

Ordered from Amazon for ease what a mistake!

Cloytes chains on Amazon's official store are actually knockoff as a cloytes rep expressed to the amazon employee that they do not have an account and that they need to take the store down!

So get the car back before knowing that. It runs great and I took it very easy. I only drove the car 2 weeks on the new chain before it broke at 55mph on the way home.

Mechanic gets it back and I ask for him to replace the chain and check for compression and he informs me it's locked up.

We purchase a new used engine it arrives and gets dropped in along with new engine mounts and water pump and brakes.

Mechanic drops it back off at this point it has a high idle 1100ish but he says sometime the relearn takes time on the throttle body which I've seen before so I drive it home 13 miles and at the 10 mile mark it starts missing and reduced power.

I pull over pop the hood and notice the passenger cat it orange literally glowing orange.

I let the car cool off and get it home.

He says maybe bad coil or sparkplug so I change both which smooths the idle and drive it directly back to his shop the next day.

He proceeds to replace all plugs, coils and replaces injector for cylinder 5 eith an oem one from gm.

cylinder 5 is the only check engine light code present.

No change he gives up and sends it to another shop after 3 months of trying to fix it.

Next Mechanic changes coil, spark plug, uses injector cleaner, and new battery which was new before timing chain and informed me that he is sure it is the intake manifold has a break somewhere.
So I order a new one does not change anything.
I've been told it was smoke tested twice and that the o2 sensors are heating up and are reading normal but I do not have numbers to prove that.
2nd Mechanic also said that besides the hundreds of miss fires on cylinder 5 the ecu is trimming the fuel by 20 percent.
He also said he did a compression test and all cylinders were to spec.
Also no visual marks on the cams he said they looked brand new.

Seems like the miss is less noticeable at higher rpms but still there.

I also fear the orange cat might have been clogged or even worse the used motor might need a timing chain but it doesn't feel at all like the last old motor did when it needed it.

Plans moving forward are check the valves on cylinder 5 for build up and pull the cat to check and clean it.

Any advice would be welcomed!
 
#3 ·
OP - welcome to the forum. Sorry for your troubles. It sounds like you have a series of mechanics that throw parts at problems - that's a very expensive approach.

Unfortunately, significant misfiring can send too much fuel vapours into your exhaust and that will damage catalytic converters given enough time - I hope yours are okay.

If this was mine and given the work already done, I would look for either a timing issue or a damaged harness. If cylinder 5 is getting the proper amounts of fuel and air and the spark at the right time, it shouldn't be misfiring. It clearly is getting fuel and air so I would suspect the spark or the timing. If you've changed plugs and coils, that leaves timing or (unlikely) a damaged harness.

I can't believe that a mechanic thought the problem was the intake manifold. That's a new one on me.
 
#8 ·
Do you have your own code reader/scan tool/scan app? What are the exact codes you're seeing? All of them, please.
 
#7 ·
I also think this is most likely a damaged wiring harness, with the wires for the #5 coil being the main (but maybe not the only) damage.

The intake manifold thing is puzzling to me. That's an expensive random shot from the parts cannon. So is replacing all 6 of anything when the code(s) you're getting indicate a single cylinder. Unfortunately, most shops are horrible at diagnosing wiring harness issues, and even worse at repairing them.

With codes for #5 cylinder misfiring, or anything else, swap the coil to #3, and if the injector is suspect, swap it to #1. If the problem stays on #5, it's either compression/mechanical or it's a problem in the wiring harness to the parts on that cylinder. The electrical parts are good because they didn't throw codes when they were installed on the other cylinders, and the ones that were on #5 didn't throw codes when they were moved.

A few words (too late for the OP, but good for anyone who finds this in a search) about some of your issues.

Amazon is infamous for "counterfeit goods" (not just auto parts). I really, really try to avoid them if at all possible. Anything I get on Amazon has to be thoroughly authenticated. The time to contact the (purported) manufacturer and ask them "Did you make this? Is this up to your quality standards?" is before you install the part. Full stop if the manufacturer denies that it's their part and denies selling anything on Amazon. Return it and try again.

RockAuto.com has been much better with genuine parts with a few minor incidents and a very notable exception. Any part they sell that says "Private Label Pkg." is unlikely to be what they claim it is. The prices on some of those are very attractive, and I'll take a chance on them sometimes. But that "Private Label Pkg." disclaimer really means that they have no idea who made the thing. Most of the time, it's not who they claim, and they will issue a refund if you show them that they misrepresented the origin of the part. But sometimes you get really good stuff on those deals, actually better than what was claimed. I probably ask for a refund on about half of the "Private Label Pkg." stuff I buy at RockAuto, but some of my best deals ever have been with that disclaimer, too.
 
#11 ·
Amazon is infamous for "counterfeit goods" (not just auto parts). I really, really try to avoid them if at all possible. Anything I get on Amazon has to be thoroughly authenticated. The time to contact the (purported) manufacturer and ask them "Did you make this? Is this up to your quality standards?" is before you install the part. Full stop if the manufacturer denies that it's their part and denies selling anything on Amazon. Return it and try again.
I was horrified to read critical internal engine components were sourced from a scammer, apparently the genesis of all these problems. Water under the bridge I guess . . .

At this point careful diagnosis is needed, which mechanics are often not good at. Cylinder swapping #5 coil to the other bank, and maybe even the injector are good steps as are actually posting the codes.
 
#12 ·
P0305 was the only active cel
Working on how to get the logs saved never had to do this with the torque app.
What exactly should I log?
Looked at fuel trims and on a cold start it idles fine then warms up and I watch the fuel trim drop to -20 and the miss starts. Get more logs later is I get some guidance tonight if not it'll have to be tomorrow after work.
 
#17 ·
Working on how to get the logs saved never had to do this with the torque app.
What exactly should I log?
From the main screen when you open Torque pro, go to the "Test Results" and give it time to finish gathering results. There's a way to copy the whole results text to the clipboard. Paste that in a message here.
 
#15 ·
Also I do have a viper remote starter installed but this has been there for years. I installed it myself and am an authorized installer. That being said mechanic mentioned a tsb about misfires and aftermarket remote starters anyone experienced this? Is it at all true I've never had a customer come back with an issue on any gm vehicles and they are all the same when it comes to wiring.
 
#19 ·
You seem to have an issue on bank 1, assuming that the cat is up to full operating temperature. Since that's where cylinder 5 is, this is not a surprise: you have unburned fuel entering the exhaust system. But we already knew that. The question is if cylinder 5 is firing at all.
 
#21 ·
Mode $06 report generated by Torque for Android
================================================

Vehicle VIN: Not present
Vehicle Manufacturer: Unknown
Vehicle Calibration ID: Not present

Test report:
------------------
MID:$01 TID:$05
Rich to Lean sensor switch time(calculated) - O2 Bank 1 Sensor 1
Max: 169ms Min: 0ms
Test result value: 26ms
PASS
----
MID:$01 TID:$06
Lean to Rich sensor switch time(calculated) - O2 Bank 1 Sensor 1
Max: 165ms Min: 0ms
Test result value: 18ms
PASS
----
MID:$01 TID:$80
- O2 Bank 1 Sensor 1
Max: 65,535Changes Min: 24Changes
Test result value: 63Changes
PASS
----
MID:$01 TID:$81
- O2 Bank 1 Sensor 1
Max: 65,535Changes Min: 24Changes
Test result value: 57Changes
PASS
----
MID:$02 TID:$8a
- O2 Bank 1 Sensor 2
Max: 100Count Min: 0Count
Test result value: 0Count
PASS
----
MID:$02 TID:$8b
- O2 Bank 1 Sensor 2
Max: 2.04936V Min: 0.80044V
Test result value: 0.88523V
PASS
----
MID:$02 TID:$8c
- O2 Bank 1 Sensor 2
Max: 0.10004V Min: 0V
Test result value: 0V
PASS
----
MID:$02 TID:$91
- O2 Bank 1 Sensor 2
Max: 0.45018V Min: 0V
Test result value: 0.20362V
PASS
----
MID:$02 TID:$92
- O2 Bank 1 Sensor 2
Max: 2.04936V Min: 0.35014V
Test result value: 0.4137V
PASS
----
MID:$02 TID:$93
- O2 Bank 1 Sensor 2
Max: 8 Min: 0
Test result value: 3.62
PASS
----
MID:$02 TID:$94
- O2 Bank 1 Sensor 2
Max: 8 Min: 0
Test result value: 3.66
PASS
----
MID:$05 TID:$05
Rich to Lean sensor switch time(calculated) - O2 Bank 2 Sensor 1
Max: 169ms Min: 0ms
Test result value: 37ms
PASS
----
MID:$05 TID:$06
Lean to Rich sensor switch time(calculated) - O2 Bank 2 Sensor 1
Max: 165ms Min: 0ms
Test result value: 23ms
PASS
----
MID:$05 TID:$80
- O2 Bank 2 Sensor 1
Max: 65,535Changes Min: 24Changes
Test result value: 64Changes
PASS
----
MID:$05 TID:$81
- O2 Bank 2 Sensor 1
Max: 65,535Changes Min: 24Changes
Test result value: 62Changes
PASS
----
MID:$06 TID:$8a
- O2 Bank 2 Sensor 2
Max: 100Count Min: 0Count
Test result value: 0Count
PASS
----
MID:$06 TID:$8b
- O2 Bank 2 Sensor 2
Max: 2.04936V Min: 0.80044V
Test result value: 0.80703V
PASS
----
MID:$06 TID:$8c
- O2 Bank 2 Sensor 2
Max: 0.10004V Min: 0V
Test result value: 0.03404V
PASS
----
MID:$06 TID:$91
- O2 Bank 2 Sensor 2
Max: 0.45018V Min: 0V
Test result value: 0.42737V
PASS
----
MID:$06 TID:$92
- O2 Bank 2 Sensor 2
Max: 2.04936V Min: 0.35014V
Test result value: 0.35746V
PASS
----
MID:$06 TID:$93
- O2 Bank 2 Sensor 2
Max: 8 Min: 0
Test result value: 3.79
PASS
----
MID:$06 TID:$94
- O2 Bank 2 Sensor 2
Max: 8 Min: 0
Test result value: 3.7
PASS
----


End of report.
 
#24 ·
Slight update after cleaning cylinder 5 intake valves as per the instructions.
Changed the spark plug because I was there.
Check all vacuum lines I could find all appeared good.
Drove a few minutes to the gas station added more fuel and continues to drive for an hour.
Still feel the miss but no longer posting as a cel active or pending!!!
Unfortunately now we have a p0300 and a p0507
Idle sounds much smoother but us still 900 ish.
Sprayed carb cleaner all over near places that could leak and heard no difference.
Did a relearn on the throttle.
3-4 minutes with key on not started.
Turn key off then back on to start the car.
Let it run 45 seconds and shut it off.
No change!
 
#27 ·
Sprayed carb cleaner all over near places that could leak and heard no difference.
Since you have Torque Pro, put a graph up of the upstream O2 sensors (both of them), and only the O2 sensors. Watch them fall into a "normal rhythm".

Spray throttle body cleaner (nothing that contains any alcohol like ethanol, methanol or isopropanal) around seals and intake manifold gasket area and watch the graphs. The O2 sensors are more sensitive than the ear usually (definitely true for my ears that have spent way too much time in/around race cars with unmuffled exhaust). When the cleaner finds its way in through a leak, it will knock the O2 sensors out of their normal rhythm, usually going way off in the "rich" direction.
 
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#26 ·
P0300 is a generic "misfire". 507 sounds like a dirty IAC (not closing properly - does your engine have one ?) probably need to remove, clean it and the passage, and replace.. Test $06 report is showing high cyl 5, 0-5 is OK, over is not IMNSHO. Is showing the same now ? If so I'd be performing a leakdown test.
 
#29 ·
These engines are dbw for the throttle. No IAC. High idle usually indicates a vacuum leak.

900 rpm idle isn't a small leak.

Check both ends of vacuum lines. Is the brake booster hose connected at both ends? Check that. And spray cleaner all along the other vacuum hoses as well. Is the MAP sensor seated? The seals on those can be a problem. Just the seal is available, but can be hard to locate.