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Discussion Starter #1
I have a 2004 deville stalling at idle. I had trouble getting the car to start and had to give it some gas, and it would stall when I stopped. I cleaned the throttle body so far, with no help. I was going to clean the idle air control valve next. The check engine light came on recently so I just pulled the codes. Here is what I've got. P0121 throttle position sensor. P0300. Cylinder misfire. P0335. Crankshaft position sensor. P0455 evap leak. P507 idle speed high or low. P1372 crankshaft position sensor a-b correlation. I also just got a check gas cap message I don't know if that would cause the p0455 code. The auto zone guy suggested to start with the crankshaft position sensors and that they could cause stalling. Any suggestions? If I replace the crankshaft position sensors there are two of them at least according to autozone replace them both?
 

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Master of the Dark Art of Diagnostics
2003 DHS - two-2002 DHS, 2003 SLS, 1995 Sedan DeVille, 1989 Coupe DeVille
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19,270 Posts
I have a 2004 deville stalling at idle. I had trouble getting the car to start and had to give it some gas, and it would stall when I stopped. I cleaned the throttle body so far, with no help. I was going to clean the idle air control valve next. The check engine light came on recently so I just pulled the codes. Here is what I've got. P0121 throttle position sensor. P0300. Cylinder misfire. P0335. Crankshaft position sensor. P0455 evap leak. P507 idle speed high or low. P1372 crankshaft position sensor a-b correlation. I also just got a check gas cap message I don't know if that would cause the p0455 code. The auto zone guy suggested to start with the crankshaft position sensors and that they could cause stalling. Any suggestions? If I replace the crankshaft position sensors there are two of them at least according to autozone replace them both?
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WOW - that is quite a laundry list -

If I replace the crankshaft position sensors there are two of them
at least according to autozone replace them both?

YES - always replace both -

CKP - Crankshaft Position Sensors -

ACDelco 213-1578 -
and -
ACDelco 213-1579 -

amazon.com has the beat price - around $75 for both -
 

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Administrator
2002.5 F55 CORSA STS, 2014 Explorer XLT FWD
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68,452 Posts
One of the EVAP system checks is fuel tank pressure/vacuum. Out-of-spec usually sets a gas cap code, and that's a hint to check the entire EVAP vacuum/purge system. A common fault is a loose test port cap - the green cap on the purge line just near the throttlebody - the canister purge valve sticks out the right (rear) side of the throttlebody - your gas pedal toes point to it.

Plenty of CKP advice in Tech Tips, and in Engines; Northstar.

Pictures and diagrams in my albums - the Community tab ^^^, Albums, the red Seville.
 

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White Diamond '03 DHS (with DTS floor shift)
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I got my A/C Delco CKP sensors on Amazon shipped for about $77. I'd stay away from AutoZone Don'tLast parts.
 

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2001 DTS
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I...fourth getting CKPs from Amazon. I had a P0300 that would go away above 3K rpm - turned out the CKPs were going, but not so bad that the PCM would set CKP-specific codes. I read some accounts of CKPs working right after install, but the general recommendation seems to be to get a Crankshaft Relearn Procedure done with a Tech II. If you're in the Bay Area near Santa Clara, feel free to PM me; I know a guy with a friend, they'll do it a helluva lot cheaper than the local stealerships (~$75 vs $300. It's bloody 5 minutes!).

I had similar stalling problems on my DTS as well, along with intermittent starting and general electrical fizz-outs (the intermittent starting resulted in a new engine and a Lemon Law buyback). I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say that the engine-to-frame ground attached to the little wiener on the front of the engine was badly designed (what can I say, it's a GM product). The terminal bends over the corner of the wiener and is secured by a bolt. As the mounts wear, the nearly right-angle bend gets fatigued, and a gap forms between the terminal and the wiener, which lets dust/soot interrupt the connection. Once I reran that ground to a bolt near the water pump, no more problems; starts every time, voltages stable on an OBD scanner.

Worth checking; I was getting a lot of the codes you posted, and they all turned out to be red herrings because of the ground. Dunno if your 2004 is different from my 2001 in this aspect.
 

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Master of the Dark Art of Diagnostics
2003 DHS - two-2002 DHS, 2003 SLS, 1995 Sedan DeVille, 1989 Coupe DeVille
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19,270 Posts
I...fourth getting CKPs from Amazon. I had a P0300 that would go away above 3K rpm - turned out the CKPs were going, but not so bad that the PCM would set CKP-specific codes. I read some accounts of CKPs working right after install, but the general recommendation seems to be to get a Crankshaft Relearn Procedure done with a Tech II. If you're in the Bay Area near Santa Clara, feel free to PM me; I know a guy with a friend, they'll do it a helluva lot cheaper than the local stealerships (~$75 vs $300. It's bloody 5 minutes!).

I had similar stalling problems on my DTS as well, along with intermittent starting and general electrical fizz-outs (the intermittent starting resulted in a new engine and a Lemon Law buyback). I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say that the engine-to-frame ground attached to the little wiener on the front of the engine was badly designed (what can I say, it's a GM product). The terminal bends over the corner of the wiener and is secured by a bolt. As the mounts wear, the nearly right-angle bend gets fatigued, and a gap forms between the terminal and the wiener, which lets dust/soot interrupt the connection. Once I reran that ground to a bolt near the water pump, no more problems; starts every time, voltages stable on an OBD scanner.

Worth checking; I was getting a lot of the codes you posted, and they all turned out to be red herrings because of the ground. Dunno if your 2004 is different from my 2001 in this aspect.
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the general recommendation seems to be
to get a Crankshaft Relearn Procedure done with a Tech II.

I don't remember anyone ever needing the relearn done
after new CKP's installed -
 

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Discussion Starter #8
After pulling the codes the check engine light is out, so I would get it inspected (it is overdue)but the check gas cap warning is on. I checked the green valve cap it is tight. What is the chance it's just the fuel cap?
 

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2001 DTS
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Hm, maybe it has something to do with the better, newer, not-made-in-Mexico CKPs? My car had the old ones, I replaced them with the new ones, and it kept throwing P0300 (after clearing) until a relearn procedure was done.
 

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2000 DTS 194,000 miles, 2000 DHS 203,000 miles
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There isn't a relearn procedure for 2000-2005 CKP's. There's nothing to relearn. They are simply magnetic sensors that pickup the crankshafts position and send the pcm the info. The signal is either there is its not.
 

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2001 DTS
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Not disagreeing with you, fellas - I went back and reread my bookmarks on CKP replacement. I was wrong about that being the "general recommendation," most people have no problem after replacement. 99 times out of 100, everything is peachy - guess I was that 1/100. I know there's a relearn code to be thrown; in my case, there was no code, but the relearn was a step in ALLDATA, and P0300 showed up persistently until the relearn.

I've hijacked this thread long enough :).
 

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2002.5 F55 CORSA STS, 2014 Explorer XLT FWD
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P 0315 refers to the need to perform the CKP Relearn Procedure in the GM service manual. Tech-II operation.

As posted, GM basically says "......after replacement ....... no driveability problems ..... no relearn......".
 
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