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Discussion starter · #21 ·
Hey everyone sorry for my delay in an update. It has taken the shop a while to look at the car. I went to pick it up yesterday and of course they said “Can not duplicate” the problem. They wouldn’t do the block test of the engine while it was “under load” as they were concerned they would cause damage to due to age/mileage of the engine.

I agree with you in my attempt to do the block test and put the engine under load to verify the presence of exhaust gas the coolant boiled out at the 220 degree mark which would add up as the system wasn’t pressurized.


How the car went from 185 to 220 degrees in 1 minute and 30 seconds with load on the engine at 1500 rpm is still interesting to me.

I’ve only driven in about 100 miles between yesterday and today and the car is running between 195 to 210 depending on the idling time, so things are about as they should be granted it has also been 20 degrees cooler here over the past 2 days.

I agree with you in my attempt to do the block test and put the engine under load to verify the presence of exhaust gas the coolant boiled out at the 220 degree mark which would add up as the system wasn’t pressurized.

I am fortunate that I don’t have any significant grades/hills around me to duplicate the issue. I’m just going to keep engine coolant with me in the car and drive it, and see what it does next.

Thank you for the boiling Temperatures that will be helpful for sure.

Is our system supposed to be pressurized to 18 psi is that correct?
 
The ambient temperature - whether 25 or 105 degrees - has little effect on system temperature except to vary "warmup" times. The engine - with a properly operating cooling system - will maintain the desired temperature (thermostat-set) day in and day out. It's designed to run at 190 - 215 normally, with occasional spikes to above 220 in heavy traffic or under excess loads if some A/C compressor function is not set. If some A/C function is called for, the fans run in SLOW all the time so temp variations will be slow to occur and will be damped for amplitude.

The recommended later Northstar surge tank cap is set to bleed pressure at 18 psi - that does NOT mean the system operates at 18 psi all the time. System pressure will rise and fall somewhat as the coolant expands and contracts due to engine load changes.

That airspace over the coolant in the surge tank is the air "spring" against which expanding and contracting coolant creates system pressure.

However, at normal temps the upper radiator hose should be hard. Depending on actual coolant/ambient temp that hose may be warm, quite warm, or just plain HOT !!! Go ahead - stick your fingers into a pan of 212 degree boiling water.........
 
So they do not feel there is a blown gasket?
It would be interesting to know what tests they did do.

Compression
Coolant sys. pressure
Coolant sys. vacuum

Did they do a Co2/gas test 'not under load'?
 
"How the car went from 185 to 220 degrees"
Keep in mind the gauges are only 'so' accurate.
Even an infrared non-contact right there on the spot has a variance. Flukes are +/-1% typ.
3-5% is common in all kinds of stuff, even highend industrial stuff.
So you could have been closer to boiling than you could have known or measured.
Once it begins to boil its unstable, even a little pressure release is a big deal.

Spent 25yrs in industrial gas/cryogenics/distillation/petrochem. Fun stuff when going well.
 
Discussion starter · #25 ·
However, at normal temps the upper radiator hose should be hard. Depending on actual coolant/ambient temp that hose may be warm, quite warm, or just plain HOT !!! Go ahead - stick your fingers into a pan of 212 degree boiling water.........
It’s funny you mention that, my hose is always “Plain HOT” from the stand point I can’t touch it for more than a few seconds at a time. I did just go out while the car is warm and I have a little bit of deflection in the hose upon squeezing but it is not “Rock Hard”
 
Discussion starter · #26 ·
So they do not feel there is a blown gasket?
It would be interesting to know what tests they did do.

Compression
Coolant sys. pressure
Coolant sys. vacuum

Did they do a Co2/gas test 'not under load'?

I’ll be honest with you, this is my first experience with this shop. The service advisor had a family emergency so he wasn’t there when I came to pick the car up. The mechanic wasn’t there that actually looked at the car the day before so I couldn’t ask them what all they did. They also didn’t have any “ticket” created in the system for my vehicle so I was tossed the keys and told I could go we and we could settle up later. (Yes because I’m going to come back here and pay you all after you let me go, it’s been 2 days now and I haven’t heard from them)

If I had to guess they just let the car idle for a while and checked the temperature of the engine etc. and decided everything was good. I checked the mileage and they put about 2 miles on the car and the idle time for the car was about 45 minutes according to the computer.

So now I’m debating on taking it to a shop that is about an hour and half away. I think this shop would do a better job of looking at it but I’m also wondering if I should wait until the problem presents its self more easily.
 
Discussion starter · #27 ·
"How the car went from 185 to 220 degrees"
Keep in mind the gauges are only 'so' accurate.
On Submariner’s suggestion about 2 years ago I bought a Scan Gauge 2 and have that running at all times in the car, (I have it mounted up in the top corner of the drivers side windshield) My car is the DHS model which does have the analog temperature gauge and the photo he has of temperature in relation to needle placement I have to say is dead accurate to what the Scan Gauge is reading back to me.

Granted even when going up the grade and the car was reading 230, when I pulled over and checked the coolant tank nothing was “boiling”. The fans were on HIGH though so I know they are working as designed. With your help I now understand pressure keeps things in check.

With your back ground no wonder you know so much about temperature and boiling points.
 
Discussion starter · #28 ·
Ok so I thought I would update my thread on this now that it's been a few months and 8,000 miles. I've driven it stop and go traffic and around down and the temp still never went as high as when I was climbing the mountain grade. The car hasn't run hot since although I haven't taken it on any long trips out of town since this time and the car is now at 158,000.

About October-November I started to feel the transmission started to slip badly when the temperature was in the 20's when starting initially. I then realized I've been loosing a large amount of transmission fluid in when backing in out of driveway in the morning. The fluid dump wouldn't happen however until I made it to my street, you can see where I would back out and turn the wheel put the car in drive and then pull away. I hadn't realized this was coming from car as there was not trail until i made it to the street. Nothing would leak out of the car over night and it wouldn't spot the drive way when parked. I took it too a shop and they looked at it and read all the codes and asked me to come pick it back up because they didn't want to touch it as they deemed it a total loss since it needs to have the transmission rebuilt/replaced. When pulling the codes I they got
"TCC is stuck off (P0741) it prevents trans/torque converter lockup, thus allowing a very slight (300 RPM or so) slippage, resulting in about a 2 MPG difference which lines up with the mileage dip I have experienced after all this happened I was getting 21 mpg around down and I went down to a steady 19 mpg over the summer. However this never set a check engine code until it visited the shop, they showed me the code on their scanner while it was plugged in and the check engine light was now on.

I have it at another shop now waiting for its turn to have the transmission looked at and decide what to do. My question is this:

Could the TCC being stuck off allow the engine to run hotter when pulling the large grade of 8% or more? However any other time the car ran fine (I don't have many mountains around me during the past 8,000 miles but I have had plenty of 100 degree days sitting in stop an go traffic. and I assume if it was the head bolts it would have happend again by now )
 
The TCC codes have nothing to do with the engine running warmer than usual.

P 1860 is the TCC engagement solenoid failure - electrical circuit monitor fault. A $45 solenoid buried $2500 deep in the transmission.
P 0741 is TCC stuck OFF, an engine/transmission shaft speed mismatch. Caused (most likely) by worn transmission and torque converter input shaft seals, causing a TCC engagement oil pressure leak.

A GM/Cadillac dealership gets about $4700 for those code fixes - they install a locally rebuilt transmission and torque converter.

Either WILL cause the slight mpg change. You can drive the car forever with either code but, if in an emissions area, it will fail the tests.

Maintain the cooling system and your "overheating" days will not return.

Line art Text Auto part Font Vehicle
 
Discussion starter · #30 ·
Well the transmission shop called today, he replaced the seal around the drivers side axle for $102.82 and deemed it fixed, no code came up for the Transmission at all. I guess the first shop just really did not want to work on it at all. The transmission guy brought me into the shop to look at all the oil leaks. It's no longer seeping oil I have visible drips all over a(mostly around the oil pan) and told me "Why don't you go have that fixed because you don't have any transmission issues" I'm glad it wasn't expensive considering the first guy said junk it and move on.
 
Discussion starter · #31 ·
Well I thought I would update this now that it's been to another shop. They checked it over and it failed the block test the fluid when green, they did test it 3 times under load and they said its just a matter of time before things get worse. I really wish I could get it fixed but I'm having a hard time finding a shop willing to even take on the work. I'm kind of at a loss what to do now. I guess I don't need to worry about the transmission and oil leaks anymore, it breaks my heart but I guess its telling me time to let it go.
 
Bad news. If the rest of the car is in good to excellent condition you could bite the bullet and ship it to Joe Blau at Midwest Cadillac Repair in Palatine, IL (just NW of Chicago). They do perfect, excellent, extremely fair priced Northstar work - and everything you describe can be repaired permanently.

Or, ask a local shop if they would swap in a Jasper reman long block of the same VIN series (Y) as yours.

Either way, you're looking at about $4,000 or so - expensive, but what would you buy for that price that equals or exceeds the 2003 Deville ?
 
Discussion starter · #33 · (Edited)
Sub,

As always thank you for your advice and wisdom.

I talked with the Cadillac mechanic who was trained on the Northstar back in the 90's (so hopefully he knows what he's talking about) he told me the fact I've driven it 8,000 more miles since the original incident that I could roll the dice and keep driving it and just pray a lot. His exact words were "You must be doing something right, I just wish I knew what it was you were doing to keep it running" (Well that makes 2 of us)

I figured between shipping the car out to Joe I'm looking at about a $4500-$5000 investment. I feel the car is worth that to me, however I'm on the Dave Ramsey budget at the moment and me and him fight a lot on how much money I should spend on my car.

I found and purchased a 2005 Buick Lesabre for much cheaper that doing the motor work at this time, my plan is to save up for the engine work on the Cadillac while I use the Buick for my commute. It should make Dave happy that I don't have a car payment at least.
577182
 
Thanks for the update - and thanks for trying to keep a good car on the road.

About 5 years ago Karen and I came within a gnat's whisker of moving over near you - just northwest in Sherrills Ford. 5 acres with a 4 bedroom brick rambler, 3 car garage. But the deal fell through.
 
Discussion starter · #35 ·
Sherrills Ford is a beautiful area, I have some family out there and I really enjoy it when I go to see them. I drove the Cadillac to church today, all was well 195 coolant temp.Hoping that will continue on while I save up my pennies.
 
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