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2003 Deville
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25 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
A/C on passenger side is cool, driver side is about 22 degrees warmer. Freon level is ok. DTC Codes IPM B0248 and B0249, both current. I know my mode actuator is bad, but I believe these codes are the blend or mix doors?

I've seen threads here saying the mix doors are behind the glove box, and other threads saying the mix door is near the mode actuator.

What do I need to replace?
Where's is it?
Is there a link to someone providing blend door step by step directions for dummies?

I had a link for replacing the mode actuator door but got rid of it because the the front vents are stuck on and I'm ok with that. Now I can't do find that one doing a search.

Anyone in the Phoenix AZ area replaced these?

I appreciate it.
 

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2000 Deville Base, 2019 Corvette Grand Sport
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Your codes indicate trouble of where the air is coming out, not the temperature. Drivers side warm is usually low freon (not your case as you say) or blend door actuator so in your case it would be GM 52474878 - Left Blend Door Actuator. Not too hard to do, under the knee bolster a little up in the dash, drivers side.
584883
 

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Master of the Dark Art of Diagnostics
2003 DHS - two-2002 DHS, 2003 SLS, 1995 Sedan DeVille, 1989 Coupe DeVille
Joined
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19,866 Posts
A/C on passenger side is cool, driver side is about 22 degrees warmer. Freon level is ok. DTC Codes IPM B0248 and B0249, both current. I know my mode actuator is bad, but I believe these codes are the blend or mix doors?

I've seen threads here saying the mix doors are behind the glove box, and other threads saying the mix door is near the mode actuator.

What do I need to replace?
Where's is it?
Is there a link to someone providing blend door step by step directions for dummies?

I had a link for replacing the mode actuator door but got rid of it because the the front vents are stuck on and I'm ok with that. Now I can't do find that one doing a search.

Anyone in the Phoenix AZ area replaced these?

I appreciate it.
=====================
A/C on passenger side is cool, driver side is about 22 degrees warmer. Freon level is ok.
HOW do you know "freon is OK" -

the ONLY way ANYONE can say that the "freon is OK" -
would be directly after an evacuation and re-charge - with EXACTLY 2.2LBS of freon -

PLEASE don't say "because the needle is in the green" -

----------------------

there are only TWO reasons
that discharge air temp would be different between Driver and Passenger side vents -

1) faulty MIX DOOR ACTUATOR - or sticking MIX DOOR -
the actuators ARE monitored by the computer and WILL set a DTC if they malfunction -

the mix door itself is also monitored -
and would set a MIX DOOR RANGE ERROR code -

2) the system low on freon -
the ONLY way to determine this is to connect a set of gauges -
and compare BOTH the HIGH side pressure and the LOW side pressure to the pressure chart -

CONCLUSION -
since you do NOT have any DTC's pointing to a MIX DOOR issue -
I suspect LOW FREON -

I've seen threads here saying the mix doors are behind the glove box,
and other threads saying the mix door is near the mode actuator.

BOTH statements are correct -
the PASSENGER side MIX DOOR ACTUATOR is next to the glove box -
and the DRIVER side MIX DOOR ACTUATOR is next to the MODE DOOR ACTUATOR -

What do I need to replace?
NOTHING - you need to check PRESSURES -
 

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2003 Deville
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Discussion Starter #4
=====================
A/C on passenger side is cool, driver side is about 22 degrees warmer. Freon level is ok.
HOW do you know "freon is OK" -

the ONLY way ANYONE can say that the "freon is OK" -
would be directly after an evacuation and re-charge - with EXACTLY 2.2LBS of freon -

PLEASE don't say "because the needle is in the green" -

----------------------

there are only TWO reasons
that discharge air temp would be different between Driver and Passenger side vents -

1) faulty MIX DOOR ACTUATOR - or sticking MIX DOOR -
the actuators ARE monitored by the computer and WILL set a DTC if they malfunction -

the mix door itself is also monitored -
and would set a MIX DOOR RANGE ERROR code -

2) the system low on freon -
the ONLY way to determine this is to connect a set of gauges -
and compare BOTH the HIGH side pressure and the LOW side pressure to the pressure chart -

CONCLUSION -
since you do NOT have any DTC's pointing to a MIX DOOR issue -
I suspect LOW FREON -

I've seen threads here saying the mix doors are behind the glove box,
and other threads saying the mix door is near the mode actuator.

BOTH statements are correct -
the PASSENGER side MIX DOOR ACTUATOR is next to the glove box -
and the DRIVER side MIX DOOR ACTUATOR is next to the MODE DOOR ACTUATOR -

What do I need to replace?
NOTHING - you need to check PRESSURES -
Codes B0248 and B0249 are NOT blend door codes?
 

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Listen to Bass, he knows his shit and I take his info as gospel! Like he said, without a proper freon diagnosis your trying to hit a bulls eye in the dark guessing how much freon is in your system. I have been reading this forum for years and this topic comes up frequently( warm driver, cold passenger) and has happened to me also, most of the time it is cause by low freon, I would start there. That was also the fix for my car also.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
===================
Codes B0248 and B0249 are NOT blend door codes?
NOPE!

don't believe Ron?

don't believe me?

OK - look the definitions up yourself -
Back up a minute Basscat. In his first response, Ron indicated the codes were for a blend door actuator issue. So how can you claim I didn't believe him? He mentioned the Freon but also acknowledged that I wrote that the Freon level was fine.

Now the code definitions from the link you posted:
  • B0428 - Air Mix Door #3 Inoperative Error
  • B0429 - Temperature Control #3 Rear Circuit Range/Performance
So that's not the blend door? Then what is it?

I've had the A/C checked with actual guages at a shop. Everything is within range. I did that first, before ever posting.
 

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Back up a minute Basscat. In his first response, Ron indicated the codes were for a blend door actuator issue. So how can you claim I didn't believe him? He mentioned the Freon but also acknowledged that I wrote that the Freon level was fine.

Now the code definitions from the link you posted:
  • B0428 - Air Mix Door #3 Inoperative Error
  • B0429 - Temperature Control #3 Rear Circuit Range/Performance
So that's not the blend door? Then what is it?

I've had the A/C checked with actual guages at a shop. Everything is within range. I did that first, before ever posting.
Lets calm down here. I may have spoke too soon. Like I said your codes point to a problem with where the air comes out, not the temperature. I may have misspoke on the actuator issue, thats not Basscat's fault. Your codes do not indicate a side to side temperature problem. Low freon causes that or a bad blend door actuator, which you do not have a code for. In other words your problem of warm air on the driver's side IS NOT related to your codes.
MIX doors adjust temperature
the MODE door dictates WHERE the air blows from
 

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Master of the Dark Art of Diagnostics
2003 DHS - two-2002 DHS, 2003 SLS, 1995 Sedan DeVille, 1989 Coupe DeVille
Joined
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19,866 Posts
Back up a minute Basscat. In his first response, Ron indicated the codes were for a blend door actuator issue. So how can you claim I didn't believe him? He mentioned the Freon but also acknowledged that I wrote that the Freon level was fine.

Now the code definitions from the link you posted:
  • B0428 - Air Mix Door #3 Inoperative Error
  • B0429 - Temperature Control #3 Rear Circuit Range/Performance
So that's not the blend door? Then what is it?

I've had the A/C checked with actual guages at a shop. Everything is within range. I did that first, before ever posting.
=====================


you need to read what is actually written -
Ron posted this - Your codes indicate trouble of where the air is coming out, not the temperature
referring to the MODE DOOR ACTUATOR - that you already know is faulty -

He mentioned the Freon -
YES he did - he correctly stated "Drivers side warm is usually low freon"

but also acknowledged that I wrote that the Freon level was fine.

YES - Ron - I - and everyone who read your post SAW that you claimed "Freon level is ok "
Ron accepted this as FACT - I didn't -


Now the code definitions from the link you posted:

  • B0428 - Air Mix Door #3 Inoperative Error
  • B0429 - Temperature Control #3 Rear Circuit Range/Performance
So that's not the blend door? Then what is it?

YES - those ARE the codes that point to a failed BACK SEAT - MIX DOOR ACTUATOR -
by the way - the PASSENGER side MIX DOOR ACTUATOR has a split-shaft -
the large - square - outer shaft controls the PASSENGER side temp -
and the small "D" shaped hole in the inner shaft controls the BACK SEAT temp -
this is a very - VERY - VERY - common issue -
and has absolutely NOTHING to do with EITHER - the DRIVER side or PASSENGER side temps -

HOWEVER -

those are NOT the codes you originally posted -

you posted B0248 and B0249 - and I SUGGESTED that you look them up yourself -
  • B0248 - Mode Door Inoperative Error
  • B0249 - Heater/Defrost/AC Door Range Error
but - you already KNEW the MODE DOOR ACTUATOR was faulty -

I've had the A/C checked with actual guages at a shop.
Everything is within range. I did that first, before ever posting.

well - all I can tell you is that the shop is simply WRONG - and probably NOT familiar with Cadillac systems -

NUMBERS - GIVE ME THE ACTUAL NUMBERS
for BOTH the HIGH side and the LOW side pressures -

OK - HERE is the full explanation of exactly what - why - and how - I came to this conclusion -

FIRST - a brief lesson on the Deville climate control system -

it is actually a full 3-ZONE system -DRIVER side - PASSENGER side - and REAR SEAT -
each zone has its own temperature control settings -
generally speaking - the PASSENGER side and REAR SEAT zones
can be up to 5 degrees WARMER or COOLER than the "main" - DRIVER side setting -

the DRIVER SIDE is considered the MAIN temp actuator -
the PASSENGER side and REAR SEAT share the same actuator -
and can slightly "override" the main temperature setting

the MODE DOOR actuator controls WHERE the air blows from - floor vents - dash vents or defrost -
this is what YOUR codes are for -

we also have a RECIRCULATE DOOR actuator -
this controls the amount of outside air allowed into the cabin -
this door is fully closed on the 90* - full hot - or 60* - full cold temperature positions -
all other times - the door is partially open - depending on settings and ambient temp -

ALL of the various actuators work on a scale of 1 to 255 -
this is how the computer keeps track of their positions -

ALL of the actuators are monitored by the computer -
if they fail to respond properly - a specific DTC is set -
if the corresponding door is NOT i the expected position - a specific DTC is set -

there are MANY other electronic components within the climate control system -
duct temp sensors - solar sensors - cabin temp sensor - and several refrigerant-related sensors -
ALL of these sensors are also monitored by the computer -

and HERE is where WE come in - simply with our knowledge and experience -

SO - let's look at the FACTS -

you report the problem as a 22* higher DRIVER SIDE duct temp than the PASSENGER SIDE -

the ONLY DTC's you have point to a faulty MODE DOOR -
in fact there are TWO codes -
ONE points to a failed MODE DOOR actuator -
the other code points to a faulty position of the MODE DOOR -

you report no other codes -
therefore - we can assume ALL of the other actuators ARE functioning properly -
and ALL of the other doors ARE in the correct - expected - positions -
and ALL of the other sensors are responding properly -

SO - what can explain the 22* difference?


SLIGHTLY LOW FREON -

NOT low enough to trigger the LOW FREON sensor - BUT - low enough to affect duct temps -
and here is HOW -

cooled liquid freon leaves the condenser - still very warm - and under HIGH pressure -
it passes through the orifice tube - becomes a REALLY COLD - LOW pressure liquid -

it flows through the EVAPORATOR - PASSENGER side FIRST - then it gets to the DRIVER side -

cabin air is blown across the evaporator -

the cold liquid freon extracts the heat from the air - gets HOT - and actually BOILS -

under "normal" conditions - with a FULL charge of freon -
the hot - liquid - freon leaves the evaporator - THEN it starts to boil - and turn into a gas -

with a LOW freon charge -
the liquid freon can actually start to boil INSIDE the evaporator - on the DRIVER side -
and a hot gas can NOT extract more heat from the air passing across the evaporator -

the end result -
the PASSENGER side gets full benefit of the cold - liquid - freon = COLD AIR -
BUT the DRIVER side only gets warm liquid freon - or even hot gaseous freon = 22* WARMER AIR -

==================

I HOPE you appreciate the amount of time I spent explaining this to you in great detail -
my ONLY goal is to TEACH - and my ONLY reward is for you to LEARN -
 

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Registered
2003 Deville
Joined
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Discussion Starter #10
=====================


you need to read what is actually written -
Ron posted this - Your codes indicate trouble of where the air is coming out, not the temperature
referring to the MODE DOOR ACTUATOR - that you already know is faulty -

He mentioned the Freon -
YES he did - he correctly stated "Drivers side warm is usually low freon"

but also acknowledged that I wrote that the Freon level was fine.

YES - Ron - I - and everyone who read your post SAW that you claimed "Freon level is ok "
Ron accepted this as FACT - I didn't -


Now the code definitions from the link you posted:

  • B0428 - Air Mix Door #3 Inoperative Error
  • B0429 - Temperature Control #3 Rear Circuit Range/Performance
So that's not the blend door? Then what is it?

YES - those ARE the codes that point to a failed BACK SEAT - MIX DOOR ACTUATOR -
by the way - the PASSENGER side MIX DOOR ACTUATOR has a split-shaft -
the large - square - outer shaft controls the PASSENGER side temp -
and the small "D" shaped hole in the inner shaft controls the BACK SEAT temp -
this is a very - VERY - VERY - common issue -
and has absolutely NOTHING to do with EITHER - the DRIVER side or PASSENGER side temps -

HOWEVER -

those are NOT the codes you originally posted -

you posted B0248 and B0249 - and I SUGGESTED that you look them up yourself -
  • B0248 - Mode Door Inoperative Error
  • B0249 - Heater/Defrost/AC Door Range Error
but - you already KNEW the MODE DOOR ACTUATOR was faulty -

I've had the A/C checked with actual guages at a shop.
Everything is within range. I did that first, before ever posting.

well - all I can tell you is that the shop is simply WRONG - and probably NOT familiar with Cadillac systems -

NUMBERS - GIVE ME THE ACTUAL NUMBERS
for BOTH the HIGH side and the LOW side pressures -

OK - HERE is the full explanation of exactly what - why - and how - I came to this conclusion -

FIRST - a brief lesson on the Deville climate control system -

it is actually a full 3-ZONE system -DRIVER side - PASSENGER side - and REAR SEAT -
each zone has its own temperature control settings -
generally speaking - the PASSENGER side and REAR SEAT zones
can be up to 5 degrees WARMER or COOLER than the "main" - DRIVER side setting -

the DRIVER SIDE is considered the MAIN temp actuator -
the PASSENGER side and REAR SEAT share the same actuator -
and can slightly "override" the main temperature setting

the MODE DOOR actuator controls WHERE the air blows from - floor vents - dash vents or defrost -
this is what YOUR codes are for -

we also have a RECIRCULATE DOOR actuator -
this controls the amount of outside air allowed into the cabin -
this door is fully closed on the 90* - full hot - or 60* - full cold temperature positions -
all other times - the door is partially open - depending on settings and ambient temp -

ALL of the various actuators work on a scale of 1 to 255 -
this is how the computer keeps track of their positions -

ALL of the actuators are monitored by the computer -
if they fail to respond properly - a specific DTC is set -
if the corresponding door is NOT i the expected position - a specific DTC is set -

there are MANY other electronic components within the climate control system -
duct temp sensors - solar sensors - cabin temp sensor - and several refrigerant-related sensors -
ALL of these sensors are also monitored by the computer -

and HERE is where WE come in - simply with our knowledge and experience -

SO - let's look at the FACTS -

you report the problem as a 22* higher DRIVER SIDE duct temp than the PASSENGER SIDE -

the ONLY DTC's you have point to a faulty MODE DOOR -
in fact there are TWO codes -
ONE points to a failed MODE DOOR actuator -
the other code points to a faulty position of the MODE DOOR -

you report no other codes -
therefore - we can assume ALL of the other actuators ARE functioning properly -
and ALL of the other doors ARE in the correct - expected - positions -
and ALL of the other sensors are responding properly -

SO - what can explain the 22* difference?


SLIGHTLY LOW FREON -

NOT low enough to trigger the LOW FREON sensor - BUT - low enough to affect duct temps -
and here is HOW -

cooled liquid freon leaves the condenser - still very warm - and under HIGH pressure -
it passes through the orifice tube - becomes a REALLY COLD - LOW pressure liquid -

it flows through the EVAPORATOR - PASSENGER side FIRST - then it gets to the DRIVER side -

cabin air is blown across the evaporator -

the cold liquid freon extracts the heat from the air - gets HOT - and actually BOILS -

under "normal" conditions - with a FULL charge of freon -
the hot - liquid - freon leaves the evaporator - THEN it starts to boil - and turn into a gas -

with a LOW freon charge -
the liquid freon can actually start to boil INSIDE the evaporator - on the DRIVER side -
and a hot gas can NOT extract more heat from the air passing across the evaporator -

the end result -
the PASSENGER side gets full benefit of the cold - liquid - freon = COLD AIR -
BUT the DRIVER side only gets warm liquid freon - or even hot gaseous freon = 22* WARMER AIR -

==================

I HOPE you appreciate the amount of time I spent explaining this to you in great detail -
my ONLY goal is to TEACH - and my ONLY reward is for you to LEARN -
THANK YOU for the explaining the caddy a/c system to me. I appreciate that very much.

The codes in my OP were correct and I looked up the correct description, but I copied and pasted the wrong ones in my post #7 response (gotta quit using a tablet for everything). Sorry for the confusion.

So now I will find a different shop to go to and have the system evacuated and recharged since the first shop said everything was within range. (My old mechanic got, well, old, and sold his shop so finding a good one has been a pain!)

Again, thank you Basscat.
 

·
Master of the Dark Art of Diagnostics
2003 DHS - two-2002 DHS, 2003 SLS, 1995 Sedan DeVille, 1989 Coupe DeVille
Joined
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19,866 Posts
THANK YOU for the explaining the caddy a/c system to me. I appreciate that very much.

The codes in my OP were correct and I looked up the correct description, but I copied and pasted the wrong ones in my post #7 response (gotta quit using a tablet for everything). Sorry for the confusion.

So now I will find a different shop to go to and have the system evacuated and recharged since the first shop said everything was within range. (My old mechanic got, well, old, and sold his shop so finding a good one has been a pain!)

Again, thank you Basscat.
======================
So now I will find a different shop to go to and have the system evacuated and recharged
since the first shop said everything was within range.

EXCELLENT choice! -

the pressure readings MIGHT have been "within range" -
the problem is the system wasn't working correctly -
a mechanic - knowledgeable in AC - would have been able to quickly figure this out -
 

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Discussion Starter #12
======================
So now I will find a different shop to go to and have the system evacuated and recharged
since the first shop said everything was within range.

EXCELLENT choice! -

the pressure readings MIGHT have been "within range" -
the problem is the system wasn't working correctly -
a mechanic - knowledgeable in AC - would have been able to quickly figure this out -
Basscatt, You have been incredibly helpful and immensely patient with me. I'm hoping you (or anyone else) might have some insight with this current issue so that when I go back to the auto shop, I will have some idea.

So the compressor housing was leaking at the seal. It was replaced with a new (not reman) compressor but I don't know who the manufacturer is. The service advisor didn't mention anything about replacing hoses and dryer so I asked about it and he said that since the system hadn't been opened up, just the compressor needed to be replaced. I thought I should replace it all but then my mind went elsewhere and I didn't follow up on that.

The system was charged and blows cool but not as cold as I feel it should. I took it back and they evacuated and recharged it, but it is still working the same. The orifice tube (not changed when they replaced the compressor which means they didnt check it apparently) had a little gunk on it (90% + clean) but was mostly clean (no metal visible) and was replaced at the second evac and recharge. This made no change It blows about 52 when driving and close to 60 at idle. This is with the fan on high. On medium it will blow 46 or so when driving. The other cars we have (dodge caliber and Mustang), using the same guages, blow 40 - 42 with the fan on high and the caliber blows 38 with the fan on medium (both while driving). I use two different gauges, one digital and one analog) and both read the same.

This is the first time the a/c system has had any work done to it. My step father bought it in 2005 to replace an older one. Mileage is currently less than 87,000. Different make than the other cars but I feel it should be just as cool.
 

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What settings are you using for the ac? Put it in manual mode, three bars on the fan speed and have your recirculation button on and obviously set to 60*. You should be at 38*-42* at idle giving it a little gas to about 1200-1500rpm's.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
The best I can get is low to mid 50's that way. 2.2 lbs of freon when recharged. I know it should be colder. Somethings not right, hoping someone has some insight.
What settings are you using for the ac? Put it in manual mode, three bars on the fan speed and have your recirculation button on and obviously set to 60*. You should be at 38*-42* at idle giving it a little gas to about 1200-1500rpm's.
 

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The best I can get is low to mid 50's that way. 2.2 lbs of freon when recharged. I know it should be colder. Somethings not right, hoping someone has some insight.
Yea definitely something wrong. Obviously I have been reading this thread and at this point I'm sorry I don't have anymore knowledge, now it's over my head. You can hope Basscat and Sub chime back in because they are the experts.
 

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Master of the Dark Art of Diagnostics
2003 DHS - two-2002 DHS, 2003 SLS, 1995 Sedan DeVille, 1989 Coupe DeVille
Joined
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19,866 Posts
recharging the AC system is an ART - like so many other tasks in automotive maintenance -
it isn't ALWAYS cut and dry 2.2lbs of freon and it will blow ice cubes from the vents -
THAT'S the difference between a real mechanic and a parts-changer

LOTS of variables will determine the temperature of the discharge air -
especially after having the system worked on -

ANY TIME I worked on a system that required discharging it - and disconnecting the refrigerant lines -
I ALWAYS replaced the orifice tube and accumulator - as part of the repair -
both are cheap and easy to replace -
I also evacuated the system for a MINIMUM of 1 hour -

I HATED come-backs and upset customers!

since you aren't a mechanic with tools - you're at the mercy of someone else -
and you can only HOPE that person KNOWS what he/she is doing -
and WILL do the job PERFECTLY -

without tools - you - AND I - have very limited choices - on what WE can do to help -

I would start by telling you to check for codes using the on-board scanner -
this will eliminate anything obvious - like an actuator issue -

next - I would have you "exercise" ALL of the functions of the HVAC system -

then test the system using a quality - accurate thermometer -
basically comparing the duct temps between the driver side vents and the passenger side vents -

like Ron said -
a system in PERFECT operating condition should produce 38 to 42 duct temp equally on BOTH sides -
assuming 80 to 85 ambient temp -

it MIGHT be as simple as adding a few more ounces of freon -
it might be something completely different -
this is where the "ART" comes in -
 

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Discussion Starter #17
recharging the AC system is an ART - like so many other tasks in automotive maintenance -
it isn't ALWAYS cut and dry 2.2lbs of freon and it will blow ice cubes from the vents -
THAT'S the difference between a real mechanic and a parts-changer

LOTS of variables will determine the temperature of the discharge air -
especially after having the system worked on -

ANY TIME I worked on a system that required discharging it - and disconnecting the refrigerant lines -
I ALWAYS replaced the orifice tube and accumulator - as part of the repair -
both are cheap and easy to replace -
I also evacuated the system for a MINIMUM of 1 hour -

I HATED come-backs and upset customers!

since you aren't a mechanic with tools - you're at the mercy of someone else -
and you can only HOPE that person KNOWS what he/she is doing -
and WILL do the job PERFECTLY -

without tools - you - AND I - have very limited choices - on what WE can do to help -

I would start by telling you to check for codes using the on-board scanner -
this will eliminate anything obvious - like an actuator issue -

next - I would have you "exercise" ALL of the functions of the HVAC system -

then test the system using a quality - accurate thermometer -
basically comparing the duct temps between the driver side vents and the passenger side vents -

like Ron said -
a system in PERFECT operating condition should produce 38 to 42 duct temp equally on BOTH sides -
assuming 80 to 85 ambient temp -

it MIGHT be as simple as adding a few more ounces of freon -
it might be something completely different -
this is where the "ART" comes in -
Thank you. That's kinda what I figured.
 
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