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2002 Deville Base Model
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Discussion Starter #1
My base Deville currently has the original factory suspension. I have no issues or complaints as the car rides better than any other car I have ever driven. With that stated I would like to install stiffer springs and shocks/struts to help stabilize the car at high speeds. I plan on frequently reaching speeds over 100 MPH and that is when every little bump or dip in the road seems to send the car on a never ending sway back and forth motion. I understand the DTS model came with a stiffer suspension for improved handling. I am interested in something similar. I obviously have no desire to convert to DTS suspension. That would cost a fortune and really is not necessary. Im not looking for anything special. Aftermarket is fine by me. I know about the front and rear strut/shock conversions but I have no idea what the ride is like. I would assume they would be soft or "stockish". I have a set of 2005 DTS 18" wheels and tires for it too so that will help with the tire sidewall roll.
 

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2001 Seville STS, 1990 Seville (RIP), 1972 Sedan Deville
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You can install DTS springs and anti roll bars, but nobody makes stiffer shocks/struts for these cars. The base and DHS were designed to be cruisers and nothing more.

Frequently reaching speeds over 100 MPH is either speeding/street racing, or tracking the car. The former, nobody's going to help you do, the latter the car will never do well.

If there's excess body movement, just replacing the worn dampers with new ones will make a significant difference. Most here will recommend Monroe replacements. Not sure of the part numbers for the struts for your car, but the shocks are MA822, and are compatible with the ELC system.
 

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2003 Deville Base
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^^^^ what MC said. Plus, you realize that your base model is electronically speed limited to 112mph?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
The speed limiter has been removed. I had a pretty good feeling options were going to be slim to none. I have some issues to work out. Under 30 MPH it gets some pretty good torque steer. It will actually break the tires loose a little when it kicks down from third to first from a slow cruise, but it jerks the steering wheel if Im not hanging on tight.

Are the DTS springs stiffer on both the front and rear? If so on a scale from 1-10 how much stiffer would you say?

When you say anti roll bar I know all about those. But what Im familiar with is something custom made and installed. Definitely aftermarket. Is that what you are suggesting? Or did the DTS come factory with some kind of anti roll system?

So the struts and shocks on a DTS are no stiffer than a base model? Just the springs?

Thanks.

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The auto leveling air system is disabled by removing the fuse. I do not want to use it. It is not a way to stiffen up the rear before anyone suggests it. I would agree simply replacing the old with new would probably help more than less. But I just have to be careful not to run too stiff of a spring with a very soft shock. Then I get the bounce LOL
 

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2001 Seville STS, 1990 Seville (RIP), 1972 Sedan Deville
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The DTS came with stiffer springs on the front, but the rears I'm not sure. The ride of the DTS is firmer, less so than an STS, neither are sports cars.

The DTS came with stiffer anti roll bars from the factory.

DTS struts and shocks are active. They adjust from soft to firm as needed. They would do you no good, as none of the rest of the system is on your car.

The rear springs on all of these cars are mush. They were never intended to support the weight of the car without assist from the ELC system.

Considering there is zero aftermarket support, I would start by replacing the dampers and re activating/repairing the ELC system and seeing where that gets you.

Where'd you find someone with a TECH II that was willing to eliminate the speed limiter on a base model Deville needing suspension work??
 

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2003 Deville Base
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Where'd you find someone with a TECH II that was willing to eliminate the speed limiter on a base model Deville needing suspension work??
Good question. and if the speed limiter was removed on purpose, surely you upgraded the tires to appropriate speed rating. Right? I'm getting the feeling that this isn't exactly a street car.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I removed it myself. At a race track the roadway is smooth and free of bumps and dips(or its supposed to be) Its the public roadway is where it can get scary. Hitting a dip at 120MPH with base model suspension can open your eyelids if your not use to that kind of thing. The point is to make the car safe(er).

The rear shocks look to me like I can find something aftermarket that is adjustable and will work. The fronts I may have to do some work to as factory struts may be my only option. I will do some research and find out exactly how much stiffer DTS front springs are. But Im pretty sure I can find an aftermarket spring if desired.

I will definitely look into the DTS anti roll system. Im assuming this is something that is a "bolt on" swap/replacement to stiffen her up. Thanks!!

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its 100% daily driven street car

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and I didn't use a tech2 to remove it either
 

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Master of the Dark Art of Diagnostics
2003 DHS - two-2002 DHS, 2003 SLS, 1995 Sedan DeVille, 1989 Coupe DeVille
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I removed it myself. At a race track the roadway is smooth and free of bumps and dips(or its supposed to be) Its the public roadway is where it can get scary. Hitting a dip at 120MPH with base model suspension can open your eyelids if your not use to that kind of thing. The point is to make the car safe(er).

The rear shocks look to me like I can find something aftermarket that is adjustable and will work. The fronts I may have to do some work to as factory struts may be my only option. I will do some research and find out exactly how much stiffer DTS front springs are. But Im pretty sure I can find an aftermarket spring if desired.

I will definitely look into the DTS anti roll system. Im assuming this is something that is a "bolt on" swap/replacement to stiffen her up. Thanks!!

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its 100% daily driven street car

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and I didn't use a tech2 to remove it either
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So the struts and shocks on a DTS are no stiffer than a base model?
you have a LOT of research to do -

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DTS model Deville has the electronic - or "ACTIVE" -
F45 Continuously Variable Real Time Damping - SYSTEM -

it also has the FE3 - SPORT - Suspension -
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let's address the F45 SYSTEM first -

basically -
there are a gazillion sensors feeding information to a computer -
the struts and shocks are constantly - and independently - changing firmness -
controlled by the computer - depending on driving conditions -

there is NO WAY you could EVER install
the parts of the F45 SYSTEM
on your BASE model Deville - period -

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now - for the FE3 Suspension -

YES - you CAN install ALL of the FE3 parts -
on your BASE model Deville -

it is a VERY VERY DIFFICULT - and time consuming job -
but CAN be done -

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the DTS model Deville indeed uses firmer front and rear springs -

here are the GM part numbers -

FRONT - 22197592 -

REAR - 25670966 -

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the DTS also uses larger sway bars -

FRONT - 30mm diameter -
GM 25640437 -

and you will need the larger bushings -
GM-25699778 -

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REAR - 22mm diameter -
GM 25666234 -

and you will need the larger bushings -
GM 25666235 -

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the front and rear sway bar links are the same as the BASE model -

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the BEST struts would be the Monroe Sensa-Trac - 71685 -

the BEST shocks would be the Monroe MA822 kit -

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Under 30 MPH it gets some pretty good torque steer.....................
it jerks the steering wheel if Im not hanging on tight.


that means you have other worn parts -
bushings -
inner/outer tie rods -
steering rack -
ALL that will need to be inspected and repaired as necessary -

all the moving parts in the rear suspension will need the same close inspection -

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if you did install the new Monroe struts and shocks -
and installed the new DTS model front and rear springs -
and swapped out the front and rear sway bars -
and put the lower-profile 18" wheels/tires on the car -

you would end up with a harsher riding BASE model Deville -

would it handle like a DTS? - not even close -

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The speed limiter has been removed................
I removed it myself.......................
and I didn't use a tech2 to remove it either...........

I would be VERY curious to learn your "secret" -
before I raise the TOTAL BS flag -

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/northstar-engines-system-technical-discussion/625945-2002-northstar-vin-y-9-cam.html#post13932074
 

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2003 Deville Base
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bass, I'm not as knowledgeable as you or MC or Sub, but after looking at his profile and some previous posts, I'm afraid my bs-o-meter is spinning. Either that, or he just wants to gather information, rather than share any for the benefit of the members. Either way, I'm out of this thread. Someone who would want to track a base DeVille may not be hitting on all 32 valves.
 

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2001 Seville STS, 1990 Seville (RIP), 1972 Sedan Deville
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He's not tracking it. He says its a 100% street driven vehicle. Tracks are flat. He's concerned with how bad PUBLIC ROAD conditions upset the handling at OVER 100 MPH.

So either he's street racing or trolling. Either way, he should get no further info here. For obvious reasons, and because there are forum rules against it.
 

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2003 Deville Base
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So either he's street racing or trolling. Either way, he should get no further info here. For obvious reasons, and because there are forum rules against it.
as I said, I'm out of this. With as little engine & suspension mods as there are for Devilles, why would anyone want to take it to the track. I'm out
 

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2002.5 F55 CORSA STS, 2014 Explorer XLT FWD
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Given the vastly different equipment, calibrations and settings among these FWD Northstars - both Y and 9 - without a Tech-II and downloaded H VIN (or Z VIN from a Seville), I doubt that you can simply remove the 112 mph speed limiter - especially from a base Deville. I wonder if he also removed the 4,000 engine rpm limiter that is set when the stick is in N or P.

FWIW, a 2002 Deville base in perfect condition runs about 7.5 seconds 0-60, and the 1/4 is 15.7 seconds. Not all bad for a 4,000# 4-door sedan.

At some point in the near future one of our Vendors may be able to perform some "tune" work on the 2000 - 2004 FWD Northstar PCM. Until that work is verified and validated, don't hold your breath.

I would agree that low speed torque steer is due to worn suspension/steering components, not some magical power increase. Anyone with a FWD Northstar vehicle in good condition can easily verify the presence or absence of torque steer on various road surfaces - or at the local drag strip on a Test & Tune evening :sneaky: .
 

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If I were never on this forum before I would be surprised at this. But since im not bran new here anymore I can appreciate where you guys are coming from and I understand your replies. But no bs here. Who and where I did anything with my speed limiter is my business. I was trying to stay on topic. I did remove it myself and I did not use a tech 2. Period.

I am not tracking the car.

I said I have different wheels and tires in my first post.

I said I have no desire to convert to DTS shocks/struts as I stated in my first post. Its not necessary

Bascatt- Thanks for the detailed post. I appreciate that. I understand how the DTS suspension works vs my base. I did my research before this post. I know that the car will ride like crap, but you understand my goal. I agree with you on the spring and shock package you listed with part numbers to stabilize the vehicle at high speeds. I understand it wont be close to what a DTS suspension can do, but that is not my goal.

Strutmasters for example makes a conversion kit for front and rear but there are several options. What is the difference in ride quality between a coil over shock and the standard shock/spring set-up? Im only refering to the rear kit

It has torque steer only when the tires break loose. Just a little extra info.


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as I said, I'm out of this. With as little engine & suspension mods as there are for Devilles, why would anyone want to take it to the track. I'm out
Ever made anything yourself?

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If you guys want to talk about a BS 0 Meter just look up any existing thread started regarding a speed limiter. I started this thread seeking factory suspension info. I was asked about the speed limiter and that requires a BS answer.

What I should have done was BS you guys instead of keeping it real. Here you go. Hello....I want to stiffen up the ride on my base deville for no other reason than I hate the great ride quality it has. I never drive over 65mph. Any suggestions? LOL....Thats better
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Oh Sub thanks for the 1/4 info. I was wondering about that. Its too bad I dont have an actual E/T to compare any improvements to. On my car the transmission shift points are 6K as it came factory but ALL of the maximum RPM limits have been raised to 7K. This is because sometimes if the vehicle is moving fast enough and WOT is applied, it can briefly kick down into 1st when it only needed to be moved to 2nd. This is just one example of how I could bounce off the rev limiter while spraying N20 and grenade the engine. I have never witnessed the engine rev higher than 6300 in any case though.
 

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Master of the Dark Art of Diagnostics
2003 DHS - two-2002 DHS, 2003 SLS, 1995 Sedan DeVille, 1989 Coupe DeVille
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If I were never on this forum before I would be surprised at this. But since im not bran new here anymore I can appreciate where you guys are coming from and I understand your replies. But no bs here. Who and where I did anything with my speed limiter is my business. I was trying to stay on topic. I did remove it myself and I did not use a tech 2. Period.

I am not tracking the car.

I said I have different wheels and tires in my first post.

I said I have no desire to convert to DTS shocks/struts as I stated in my first post. Its not necessary

Bascatt- Thanks for the detailed post. I appreciate that. I understand how the DTS suspension works vs my base. I did my research before this post. I know that the car will ride like crap, but you understand my goal. I agree with you on the spring and shock package you listed with part numbers to stabilize the vehicle at high speeds. I understand it wont be close to what a DTS suspension can do, but that is not my goal.

Strutmasters for example makes a conversion kit for front and rear but there are several options. What is the difference in ride quality between a coil over shock and the standard shock/spring set-up? Im only refering to the rear kit

It has torque steer only when the tires break loose. Just a little extra info.

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Ever made anything yourself?

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If you guys want to talk about a BS 0 Meter just look up any existing thread started regarding a speed limiter. I started this thread seeking factory suspension info. I was asked about the speed limiter and that requires a BS answer.

What I should have done was BS you guys instead of keeping it real. Here you go. Hello....I want to stiffen up the ride on my base deville for no other reason than I hate the great ride quality it has. I never drive over 65mph. Any suggestions? LOL....Thats better
=
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I understand how the DTS suspension works vs my base.

I did my research before this post.

What is the difference in ride quality
between a coil over shock
and the standard shock/spring set-up?

this has been discussed MANY - MANY times -
here - in the Seville/Eldo forum -
and in the suspension/brakes/tires forum -

so - it seems "I did my research before this post" isn't exactly true -

I was asked about the speed limiter and that requires a BS answer.
no - I asked how you were able to get around the speed limiter -
WITHOUT using a TECH2 -

IF you did accomplish this - you wouldn't NEED a "BS answer" -

and IF you are worried about some type of "liability" by sharing your solution -
don't be -
you can't be held responsible for someone else doing something to their car -
that they saw on the internet -

so - please enlighten me -
and if you don't want to post it for all the world to see -
send me a PM - and I PROMISE not to reveal the secrete to anyone else -

oh - and if you can't explain how to do this -
you will loose any credibility you might have established -
and will be considered just another TROLL -

it's ALL up to you -
 

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Discussion Starter #17
those were two different posts. What I mean is I did research in between your post and mine. When I started the thread I had no clue of the difference. I was saying thanks. I find myself explaining myself a lot. I guess I should be more detailed.

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LOL I dont have to explain anything to you. Its not BS. Im telling you I didnt use a tech2 and my speed limiter is not 112. Ok. If YOU do simple internet research you can accomplish this too.

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and just an fyi the vin in my pcm is the one from the factory. A plain old base deville. Send me your pcm and $500 and I will do this for you if you cant do it yourself
 

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Master of the Dark Art of Diagnostics
2003 DHS - two-2002 DHS, 2003 SLS, 1995 Sedan DeVille, 1989 Coupe DeVille
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those were two different posts. What I mean is I did research in between your post and mine. When I started the thread I had no clue of the difference. I was saying thanks. I find myself explaining myself a lot. I guess I should be more detailed.

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LOL I dont have to explain anything to you. Its not BS. Im telling you I didnt use a tech2 and my speed limiter is not 112. Ok. If YOU do simple internet research you can accomplish this too.

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and just an fyi the vin in my pcm is the one from the factory. A plain old base deville. Send me your pcm and $500 and I will do this for you if you cant do it yourself
=
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good bye, TROLL - sorry I wasted MY time - :lies::xbs::mob::anibs::bsflag::nuffsaid:
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
ill be waiting for your apology

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If you ever attempt to remove it yourself(witch you never will) check out IDA PRO when/if you ever get a bin file to work
 

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Master of the Dark Art of Diagnostics
2003 DHS - two-2002 DHS, 2003 SLS, 1995 Sedan DeVille, 1989 Coupe DeVille
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ill be waiting for my apology

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If you ever attempt to remove it yourself(witch you never will) check out IDA PRO when/if you ever get a bin file to work
=============================
ill be waiting for my apology
OK - but - HOLD your breath until you see it -
 
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