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2001 Cadillac Eldorado ETC
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
2001 Eldorado. Battery is charged and well connected. Got in driver’s seat, put correct key in ignition, turned the ignition on. All lights lit up, POST completed, turned key to start and nothing happened. No started, lights did not go out; just a blank. I turned off the ignition, removed and re-inserted key, and did the same routine. Another blank. On the fourth try it fired up just as if nothing happened. :cookoo:

It usually starts correctly, but this odd scenario has happened once before.

Any ideas would be welcomed and appreciated. Thanks in advance. :yup:
 

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2002 F55 STS, 2014 Explorer XLT, F-150s
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Yep ^^^ - 2000+ Cadillacs had a rash of bad ignition switches - not the lock cylinder - the switch behind the lock cylinder.

Take your VIN to a GM dealer (service writer) and ask for the GM service history printout. See if the ignition switch was replaced early on under warranty. Mine was.
 

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2001 Cadillac Eldorado ETC
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Yep ^^^ - 2000+ Cadillacs had a rash of bad ignition switches - not the lock cylinder - the switch behind the lock cylinder.

Take your VIN to a GM dealer (service writer) and ask for the GM service history printout. See if the ignition switch was replaced early on under warranty. Mine was.
I have the service history (RIMF666 ran this last year) and it does not have an ignition switch replacement.
 

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2001 Cadillac Eldorado ETC
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I was at the dealership with another car, and so while I was there I asked for a quote on replacing the ignition switch. They said around $300 -400 as the column has to come out. However, they felt the switch never fails, but the resistor pellet in the key might have gone bad. Their suggestion for that was to bypass the key's resistor with a resistor they would wire in. This would be around $200. Has anyone done this and had any luck with it?
 

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2010 DTS
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Resistor pellet in the key? I thought they where long gone by 2001 or did the Eldo retain them?
 

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1997 Cadillac STS (BOSE w/AUX In, Massage Seats, URPAS, "Z")
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The ignition switch in Eldorado is unchanged since '96, so the issue affecting the 2000+ ignition switched on Seville/Deville did not affected the Eldorado. YET, my bet is on the ignition switch too.
Can you specify what you understand by "All lights lit up, POST completed, turned key to start and nothing happened". DOES IT CRANK OR NOT.
If it were the pellet you would get a message "Wait 4 minutes" on the dash.
You can go into the IPC overrides under IPC inputs and scroll until "Theftlock...something". Enter in the menu and tell me what is the value you see?
If is 0 then indeed you VAT contact in the ignition is gone, if a number between 1 and 255 then you VAT is FINE.
Again is not the pellet in the key what fails is the contacts inside the ignition cylinder.
I just fixed my friends '97 Eldorado Saturday because of the same issue.
 

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OK, I guess since the Eldo was slated to be put out to pasture nothing was updated on it including VATS.
 

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2001 Cadillac Eldorado ETC
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Since I saw the post by Submariner and after talking to the dealer I ran some searches on the web and here is what I learned.

1. If the security light flashes after turning in the ignition and does not go out after a few seconds, the VATS module is the culprit. The real problem is the VATS wire that runs out of the ignition switch. It fails due to the turning of the ignition switch after a a number of years and the lock must be replaced to fix this. That means removing the steering column in these cars.

2. There are some neat videos on how to by pass the VATS, recognizing that there is a risk of theft that the VATS prevented. The VATS disables the starter and fuel system, and if the car did start with a possible VATS problem, wiring or even the module (rare), the car could stop running at any time.

3. The by-pass is easy, using some resistors from Radio Shack or Frys, but there is also an easy system selling for $50. at www.slimbow.com. This is a bit easier, and has dip switches to set the resistance value instead of a resistor pack. Their site has a neat video also.

So now I need to check the dash when starting, and if this is the problem, I have a fix. :bighead:
 

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1997 Cadillac STS (BOSE w/AUX In, Massage Seats, URPAS, "Z")
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Since I saw the post by Submariner and after talking to the dealer I ran some searches on the web and here is what I learned.

1. If the security light flashes after turning in the ignition and does not go out after a few seconds, the VATS module is the culprit. The real problem is the VATS wire that runs out of the ignition switch. It fails due to the turning of the ignition switch after a a number of years and the lock must be replaced to fix this. That means removing the steering column in these cars.

2. There are some neat videos on how to by pass the VATS, recognizing that there is a risk of theft that the VATS prevented. The VATS disables the starter and fuel system, and if the car did start with a possible VATS problem, wiring or even the module (rare), the car could stop running at any time.

3. The by-pass is easy, using some resistors from Radio Shack or Frys, but there is also an easy system selling for $50. at www.slimbow.com. This is a bit easier, and has dip switches to set the resistance value instead of a resistor pack. Their site has a neat video also.

So now I need to check the dash when starting, and if this is the problem, I have a fix. :bighead:
Just read my post and check what I told you.

There is no "VAT module" the IPC reads the VAT.

Here is EXACTLY what to do:

To get to IPC Data Displays:

FAN speed UP = YES
FAN speed NO = NO
A/C OFF = CANCEL

With Ignition ON
1. Enter diagnostic mode (AC OFF and pass Warmer Buttons)
2. Wait for the codes to be enumerated (you can skip it by pressing fan speed down=no)
3. When prompted "PCM?" press Fan speed Down = NO to go to the next menu "IPC?"
4. When prompted "IPC?" press Fan speed Up = YES (enter into the IPC menu)
5. Press Fan speed Down (NO) until prompted IPC DATA
6. Press Fan speed Up (YES) to enter the IPC DATA
7. Press Fan speed Down (NO) until IPD06 and read value.
To exit press OFF repeatedly> OUT of IPC Data>OUT of IPC?>OUT to beginning of the diagnose mode>OFF (while all light on) to exit diagnostic mode
The other simpler solution is TURN IGNITION OFF at any moment.

Here is even the wiring diagram:


PULL THE CODES!!!
 

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2002 Eldorado ETC
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No! Stop! I had the exact same problem. After pondering and suffering 'no starts' for many months, I finally took it to the dealership. It cost me $110 for them to tell me the starter was going bad. They wanted $1000 to install the new starter. I studied the manuals and replaced the starter myself in one day for $120. Trust me, replace the starter. I can give you step by step and all the 'pit-falls'. Even though the starter is under the intake manifold, you can do it yourself.
 

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1997 Cadillac STS (BOSE w/AUX In, Massage Seats, URPAS, "Z")
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nascartamike, I am trying to get the OP to diagnose his VAT. I never mentioned to change or fix anything, all he needs to do is stop making suppositions ("maybe is this, or that, I read on Internet about this") and just be methodical.
I asked once, does it crank?
Haven't see any answer, we don't know what is the problem with his car right now based on his description.
Could be ANY of the followings in no particular order (plus some others):
1. Ignition cylinder contacts
2. Ingnition cylinder VAT contacts
3. IPC Data line
4. OXY SEN 2 Fuse (YEAH that too, check the schematics!)
5. Starter Relay
6. Starter solenoid
7. PCM data line (and power)
8. CRANK fuse
9. Oil pressure sensor
10. BATT 2 fuse
11. BATT 1 fuse
12. Starter
13. Battery
14. Fuel pump (and all fuel pump related circuits)
15. ICM
...should I continue?
 

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2001 Cadillac Eldorado ETC
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Just read my post and check what I told you.

There is no "VAT module" the IPC reads the VAT.

Here is EXACTLY what to do:

To get to IPC Data Displays:

FAN speed UP = YES
FAN speed NO = NO
A/C OFF = CANCEL

With Ignition ON
1. Enter diagnostic mode (AC OFF and pass Warmer Buttons)
2. Wait for the codes to be enumerated (you can skip it by pressing fan speed down=no)
3. When prompted "PCM?" press Fan speed Down = NO to go to the next menu "IPC?"
4. When prompted "IPC?" press Fan speed Up = YES (enter into the IPC menu)
5. Press Fan speed Down (NO) until prompted IPC DATA
6. Press Fan speed Up (YES) to enter the IPC DATA
7. Press Fan speed Down (NO) until IPD06 and read value.
To exit press OFF repeatedly> OUT of IPC Data>OUT of IPC?>OUT to beginning of the diagnose mode>OFF (while all light on) to exit diagnostic mode
The other simpler solution is TURN IGNITION OFF at any moment.

Here is even the wiring diagram:


PULL THE CODES!!!
N*, your diagnosis looks pretty favorable. There is nothing wrong with the starter, its strong when it works.

The car is in storage (all week - I use it for car shows), but I will check it Friday. If I need to put in a by-pass it looks like the White/Black wire is the one to cut.
 

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1997 Cadillac STS (BOSE w/AUX In, Massage Seats, URPAS, "Z")
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N*, your diagnosis looks pretty favorable. There is nothing wrong with the starter, its strong when it works.

The car is in storage (all week - I use it for car shows), but I will check it Friday. If I need to put in a by-pass it looks like the White/Black wire is the one to cut.
DON'T CUT, Jesus man!
First describe exactly what are the symptoms.
Do the diagnose I told you, PULL THE CODES!
If you do find a VAT issues and you go with the patch rather than the correct repair you remove the A10 and B10 wires from the C1 connector. I can get in more details how to if is really proved to be a VAT issue. Grab a connector (ANY small connector) from a Cadillac in your local wreck yard (connectors that work: IPC, HU, RIM, CVRSS, RFA, CD-Changer - all use the same pins). Measure your VAT and grab a resistance of the same value and solder the resistor with two of these wires. Then insert the wires in B10 and A10 (you need to pull the dash pad for that).
You still haven’t described what is your issue, is hard to help you like that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
"If you do find a VAT issues and you go with the patch rather than the correct repair you remove the A10 and B10 wires from the C1 connector. I can get in more details how to if is really proved to be a VAT issue. Grab a connector (ANY small connector) from a Cadillac in your local wreck yard (connectors that work: IPC, HU, RIM, CVRSS, RFA, CD-Changer - all use the same pins). Measure your VAT and grab a resistance of the same value and solder the resistor with two of these wires. Then insert the wires in B10 and A10 (you need to pull the dash pad for that)."

If I have the correct 200 ohm resistor (0.523 - a number 2) soldered with a 16 gauge lead on each end and the setup shrink wrapped for security, and I have the dash pad off (not a problem) and I have the C1 plug (Blue with 24 holes) in hand, where does the connector you prescribe come into play? As an example, the Cd-Changer uses a 10-pin plug with a spacer between 6 and 7.

Thanks again.
 

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My starter worked perfectly except when it didn't. About every tenth or so time I tried to start, it wouldn't do anything. Again, I went through all the schematics and really 'over analyzed' the whole problem. Trust me it's the starter.

Sorry about the plenum comment. :) It was for another post.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
My starter worked perfectly except when it didn't. About every tenth or so time I tried to start, it wouldn't do anything. Again, I went through all the schematics and really 'over analyzed' the whole problem. Trust me it's the starter.

Sorry about the plenum comment. :) It was for another post.
Not to dispute anyone, but the car has 30K miles and the starter doesn't seem to be the problem. I turn the key and nothing happens. All lights are lit, and its like I never turned the key. Then it starts after a few attempts.

I will get codes Friday.
 

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Well if you got so far to pull the IPC connectors, codes were nothing to pull, it is a matter of 30 seconds (press two buttons).
IPC connector:

Behind the IPC are 3 connectors 2 on the driver's side of the IPC and one on the passenger side.
The 24 pin (inner) connector on the driver's side of the IPC is C1. That's the one you need to focus. Here is a picture with the IPC (C1 is highlighted).

Go to a Wreck Yard and cut one of the connectors I mentioned about (with a 3'-5' long pigtail cable). All you need from that connector is 2 wires with pins attached. You need to extract the 2 wires from the connector and solder the resistor ends to these wires. Slide a heat shrink over the wires/resistor to insulate it. Use this connector to train yourself how to remove the wires without breaking the crimp pins. Here is how to remove the wires (first remove the comb plastic insert and use it to release the tab that holds the wire attached to the connector):

Now C1 harness connector, extract A10 and B10 wires from it and insert the resistor wires one end A10 one end B10.
The A pins are the one on the row toward the back of the IPC and the B pins are the ones toward the front of the IPC (display side - facing the driver). The pins are numbered (on each row) from 1 to 12 (a total of 24) where 1 is to the passenger side and 12 is on the driver's side. If you look next to the pins you will see A and B at the beginning of the rows and a number for each pin. Basically A10 and B10 are the 3-rd pin from the driver's side of C1 connector.
Once removed from C1 connector the two wires going to the ignition cylinder have no power but even so DO INSULATE THE ENDS, and don't break the crimp pins as you may want to replace the ignition cylinder at some point so you need to remove the "patch resistor" and connect back the wires. On a car with 30K I would definitely consider replacing the ignition cylinder. In the same time on a car with ONLY 30 K the chances that the VAT contacts are faulty are VERY weak. So all I explained so far may well be for nothing.
Please before anything pull the codes, and READ THE VAT value the IPC see following the steps I mentioned. If the value is 0 AND ONLY IF IS 0 you have the issue you suspect so much. If it shows a value between 1 and 255 is SOMETHING ELSE!!!!

If I have the correct 200 ohm resistor (0.523 - a number 2)
B.T.W the resistor you need is 523 ohms NOT 200 ohms. 523 Is non standard value but your VAT 2 accepts values between 502 and 564 ohms. You have 510 ohms and 560 ohms as standard values. So grab few 510 ohms resistors (they have a +/- 5% tolerance usually, and measure the one that is the closest to 523ohms as possible.
Again I can not tell it enough, DO read the IPC VAT value before anything. :helpless:
 
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