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2002.5 F55 CORSA STS, 2014 Explorer XLT FWD
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That's not "carbon" - that's condensed oil vapor and moisture goo from the PCV system doing its job. Not a problem.

Note that the port and valve heads are clean - because that's where the raw gasoline from the injector sprays.

Carbon, a byproduct of petroleum combustion, forms in the combustion chamber, on the piston crowns, and in the exhaust manifolds.
 

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Master of the Dark Art of Diagnostics
2003 DHS - two-2002 DHS, 2003 SLS, 1995 Sedan DeVille, 1989 Coupe DeVille
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20,571 Posts
That's not "carbon" - that's condensed oil vapor and moisture goo from the PCV system doing its job. Not a problem.

Note that the port and valve heads are clean - because that's where the raw gasoline from the injector sprays.

Carbon, a byproduct of petroleum combustion, forms in the combustion chamber, on the piston crowns, and in the exhaust manifolds.
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That's not "carbon" - that's condensed oil vapor and moisture goo from the PCV system
Right - also referred to as SCHMUTZ -
 

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97 seville 77 cpe dville, 79 cpe dville
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I got a 2000 Deville from the mother-in-law with 100,000 mi for free however she overheated it and blew the head gasket. I have been doing my homework on the northstar head bolt stripping out problem. I am going to do it myself. I don't have a lift so I'm going to pull it from the top with a engine hoist and mount it on a engine stand to work on it. I have a real problem with paying $500 for a time-sert
I really don't have the money. I have my own tap & die set I've been using them for years. I can make my own guide to drill the holes out. I want to order a little larger head bolts with thicker threads to grip the aluminum or buy studs. To me it doesn't make cents to drill out the block and put a plug in and then screw the bolt in. It just doesn't sound logical when there are bolt options i can cut to length if I need to. I need your criticism on this idea or should I just get the kit. Thanks guys
All of the replies that you received are valid for sure. I will say that I did a 99 seville head gasket and bolt job without removing the engine. Was it easy, no. Did I learn a few things...yes. would I do it again...yes I would but only because I know how now. HUHN solutions insert set works great, everything you need except the head bolts and gaskets of course. Definitely need to change the timing chains and guides while you're in there and you also will need the special flywheel tool to lock everything up in position. A 90 degree drill will be needed to drill out the back holes. I did it successfully, I'm not saying it was easy but it worked.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
When I took the back valve cover off the cams are rusty I'm going to soak them in that rust remover. I'm going to post a few pics let me know if I have to replace the cams or just clean them up?
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92 Fleetwood 2dr cpe - FWD, 96 Seville SLS, 02 Seville
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1,086 Posts
Wow

Did the cat sit for a long time? Is it granny driven? Probably condensation build up. Car needs to be run out periodically to steam off moisture (so it can be pulled out thru the pcv)
 

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Discussion Starter #26
Wow

Did the cat sit for a long time? Is it granny driven? Probably condensation build up. Car needs to be run out periodically to steam off moisture (so it can be pulled out thru the pcv)
She blew the head gasket a couple months ago and it's been sitting. I'm just worried the pitting on the cam lobes is going to cause problems.
 

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Super Moderator
2010 DTS
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87,866 Posts
Holy rusty cam shaft Batman! I'd say that shaft is shot, but gotta wonder what the rest of the internals look like.
 

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2002.5 F55 CORSA STS, 2014 Explorer XLT FWD
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Those cams are toast. Once the case hardening on the lobes is compromised they wear like soft butter.

Even when sitting for a couple of months, that's highly unusual rusting. No oil sheen on those cams - something else is VERY wrong with that engine.
 

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70 Deville 78 Seville 92 Deville 03 Deville
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890 Posts
I have taken apart a lot of engines and I have never seen rust like that on the inside of the engine. I have a hard time believing that it formed in the last couple months. I can't see the cam lobes, and you would think they would have enough of an oil film to not rust for a little while. If the lobes are pitted I would walk away or hope to buy some cheap cams somewhere. I can always find a running Deville cheaper than rebuilding one.
 

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Discussion Starter #30
Those cams are toast. Once the case hardening on the lobes is compromised they wear like soft butter.

Even when sitting for a couple of months, that's highly unusual rusting. No oil sheen on those cams - something else is VERY wrong with that engine.
The oil pan looked like is was full of chocolate milk when I drained it. I knew that it was full of water and I know it sat for months before I got it. I was worried because it sat for months it would have rust all inside the engine. I'm working on getting the harmonic balancer off today. Any idea how to keep the fly wheel from moving without buying the 150$ bracket. I will post more pics when I get the heads off. Thanks for the reply.
 

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2002.5 F55 CORSA STS, 2014 Explorer XLT FWD
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Try to jam a large wooden wedge against the flexplate teeth down in the bottom inspection plate opening.

The coolant/water in the oil pan is unusual for a Northstar with only failed head gaskets due to pulled head bolts. We have seen a few Northstars in here with a cracked block at #1 cylinder.

If that's your case you need to replace the entire upper and lower block assembly - it's machined as one matching piece.
 

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2010 DTS
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87,866 Posts
The oil pan looked like is was full of chocolate milk when I drained it. I knew that it was full of water and I know it sat for months before I got it. I was worried because it sat for months it would have rust all inside the engine.
My Road Runner sits for 6 months at a time (winter storage) without the motor even being turned over with no rust inside the engine. Your pictures look like it sat in the back yard with no hood or cam covers for years. I think I'd scrap that motor and pick up a used one before putting a dime into that one.
 

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2000 Deville DHS
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1,026 Posts
This is very unfortunate.. I mean has it reached the point where it’s more trouble than it’s worth?

Some advise to scrap the motor and pick up a used 1, but at what point would you decide to back off the project? I’m assuming this is a base Deville?
 

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Discussion Starter #34
Hear is my issue if I get another engine I'm still going to have to fix the dam head bolts. So I'm looking at engines around FL and there going for $1000 then I have to spend $400 on the headbolt fix. The best part of this is I have a complete 4.6 from a 97 Lincoln and a 03/04 supercharged Cobra Terminator engine and I can't use them on this car. I'm not sure what I'm going to do I almost have the head off so it all depends if the block is cracked. I will let you guys know tonight and thanks guys for your comments.
 

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2000 Deville DHS
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Hear is my issue if I get another engine I'm still going to have to fix the dam head bolts. So I'm looking at engines around FL and there going for $1000 then I have to spend $400 on the headbolt fix. The best part of this is I have a complete 4.6 from a 97 Lincoln and a 03/04 supercharged Cobra Terminator engine and I can't use them on this car. I'm not sure what I'm going to do I almost have the head off so it all depends if the block is cracked. I will let you guys know tonight and thanks guys for your comments.
Not sure how much those 2 engines mean to you or if you’ve got cars lined up for them to go into, but you could always put them up for sale?

It’s a tough call, but personally it’s starting to look like a whole lot of work for this car to be driving once again. And there’s no telling what else apart from the engine needs fixing.
You could just about find a pretty decent Deville clean and running for the money you’re thinking about putting into it + all the work it’ll take.

2yrs. ago I bought this 2002 Deville DTS for $1000 cash. Nothing wrong with the engine or transmission.

 

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Discussion Starter #36
I got the car for free and I haven't spent a dime on the car yet. I wanted to get the engine apart to see if it was worth fixing or replacing the engine. I have been getting quotes on engines. But my main concern is spending $400 on top of whatever I spend on the engine. I found a engine that has 62k for $830
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I found a couple other engines in the $650 with 150k. I still haven't pulled the heads to check the block yet.
 

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2000 Deville DHS
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I got the car for free and I haven't spent a dime on the car yet.
Yea but the way you’re talking it could cost up to $1000 for another engine + $400 + time & effort and there’s no guarantee a whole bunch of ofher stuff will need fixing as well. On a white base Deville with base Deville wheels etc...

But I’m a bit biased against base Devilles and even DHS simply based on what I consider the undersized and rather hideous looking wheels they came with.

You’re able to do the work yourself so you see things from a different perspective than I do.. The situation seems a bit more daunting from my view. I guess it’s not too much money to invest if everything turns out right and you’re able to do it yourself, so it’s your call.
 

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Discussion Starter #38
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Well I just got the back head off by the way I did leave the engine in the car however it's ready to be dropped. Hear are the pictures cylinder 1 was full of water as you can tell it's cleaner than the rest. Let me know what you think the pictures are high quality does this look like a cracked block issue or the head gasket? The gasket looks like shit you will see. Oh also all 20 head bolts that came out without aluminum in the threads. I know it still needs to be drilled but just saying.
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70 Deville 78 Seville 92 Deville 03 Deville
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Bu another Deville for $2k and you will have a good parts car to keep it going.
 
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