The only thing that can break the ringlands as we are seeing (pistons) is partial hydro-lock. Not severe enough to bend rods, but enough to break the ringlands off in the weakest spot. We have example after example. Now, where does this liquid come from? It comes from 1 of 2 sources. Either an injector stuck allowing fuel to puddle in a cylinder (relatively rare) or the obvious, and anyone can remove their charge tube at the intercooler and see this liquid "gunk" to see where it is coming from, and how it is entering the combustion chambers. These pistons are NOT weak.....but they, as even a top quality forged piston, will break as liquid will not compress. Eliminate this flaw in the PCV system so this does not occur, and the problem goes away. You CANNOT properly evacuate a turbo charged engine utilizing a naturally aspirated type PCV system, and Ford has NTSB investigation and a huge issue with this same thing, and they have battled it since 2011 and still have not solved it as they are only applying band-aides to the effects, and not the cause. The ATS L4 turbo ONLY evacuates under boost, so the rest of the time this engine is running, these compounds are accumulating in the crankcase where they then are pushed "out the in" cleanside into the turbo inlet as a concentration of water/fuel/etc. When it reaches a certain level, it then is pushed into the intake manifold by sudden, or full boost and enters cyl#1 first and this is the result.

Here is a piston that was caught shortly after breaking before more damage was done:

Here is another that was run for an extended time AFTER the ringland broke and the ring seal was breached. As you can see the flame melted (blow torched) causing more damage as well. This piston shows no signs of detonation that would lean toward it causing the failure, or the top would have the tell-tale pepper and erosion marks.

Looking at each of these other failures that many have posted pictures of, all show similar damage. I have shown both extremes of these failures. This is partial hydro-lock caused I am 100% convinced. If it was not, we would not see this liquid "gunk" accumulating in the inter-cooler as we are.

This is what were draining out of them, and this cannot be ingested without piston and or rod failure.

 

^^^^^ Yep... You need to FIX THE PROBLEM not FIX THE SYMPTOM.

 

You can add my vehicle to the mix. 2014 ATS with 5500 miles. Was told that piston #4 was the issue and a full motor replacement is in order.

 

so you are blaming poor design turbo for this ?

 

No, turbo and pistons and the entire engine is amazingly good! In fact the turbo's are very good quality. Awesome engine, very high quality and outstanding engineering. The issues are caused by trying to short cut the PCV system to save production cost's, and that most likely had nothing to do with the engineers themselves, but was an accounting and management decision. These things allow that department to claim victory by meeting their set goals, but down the line cost more in warranty claims and repairs. All politics within the hierarchy. These were/are the most frustrating aspects of the engineers job's from way back in 1974 when I first started w/GM and got to know some personally.

This is all due to releasing a turbo charged engine with a PCV system that only evacuates when in boost. Here is a good training video that explains all the functions of a PCV system. This of course is only for a NA application, but the principals are the same. So after watching you can see how the ATS ends up with these compounds accumulating in the crankcase, and then when the pressure building in the crankcase forces this mix out the fresh side inlet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPIfI9aZHt4

Correct this, and the problem goes away.

GM currently is only replacing piston/rod assy or a new engine assy. It would be a huge undertaking to change the PCV design in mid production, just as the ignition switch debacle became such a mess. Same as Ford with the EcoBoost similar issues....going on 5 years now and they are still throwing on deflectors to make the intercooler less effective, changing the tune to not allow full boost as rapid, etc. but nothing to really address the issues at the source.

oemtech has it right on....and far to often, after a power plant or vehicle is in production, changes like this will not be made.

 

So you're saying we should find and install a fix on our own dime?

 

Ill probably pull out the chargd pipe myself and see how much there is and then tell dealer to do so and have ghem drain it and ask them about warranty issues if I get one installed.

They are very smart guys unlike some other dealers Ive been to. They may even incorporate an aftermarket solution and warranty it themselves. They do it with wheels and audio.

 

GM and Ford dealers are our biggest dealers for the systems to correct these, but no coverage from GM as far as warranty. We are working on a tier one OEM solution that never needs to be serviced/emptied, but that would take 3-4 years before it passes through the channels to be implemented from the factory.

www.RevXtreme.com

 

I have been driving the car for few days now after the engine was replaced and the car feels better now then it was new feels like it has more top and power before when you would accelerate at 60 it would fall flat on its face now it pulls hard. I am not sure if they applied new programming with the 295 torque that comes standard on 2015 models ?

 

1. smurfkiller , 47xx miles , ATS 2014 #3 failure, engine replacement
2 .400hpATS , ATS #3 failure , 2013, 4213 miles, warranty would not cover, building aftermarket 800+hp engine
3. caleb bennet , ATS #4 failure, piston replacement
4. byrce2.0t , ATS
5. shortfur7 , ATS 5200 miles #3&4 failure , piston replacement
6. soop3rn0t , ATS 6800 miles built 7/13 #4 failure, piston replacement
7. calicts CTS , 9000 miles, #1 failure , piston replacement
8. romanats , engine replacement
9. firepowerats , CTS #1 failure
10. ElanX , ATS piston replacement
11. Shooter2384 , ATS piston replacement
12. chrisgarner , ATS engine replacement
13. Skenny50 , ATS 6000 miles, #4 failure , engine replacement
14. DB_Outlaw , ATS 12k miles, #1 failure, piston replacement , he sold car then new owner possibly had to have engine replacement
15. Firepower ATS. CTS 9k miles #1 failure piston replacement (replaced all 4)
16. TheRival, ATS. 5500 miles. #4 failure. Engine replacement.

 

that list is not looking too good 16 reported cases on this forum how about people that are not on the forum ? It seems most of the failures are happening around 6k mark I am lucky I got mine to 20k mark

 

I'm with you, mine is on 35, xxx. I never say never.

 

9 and 15, repeat.

 

Yes, FirepowerATS got added twice, adjusted there are 15 so far:

1. smurfkiller , 47xx miles , ATS 2014 #3 failure, engine replacement
2 .400hpATS , ATS #3 failure , 2013, 4213 miles, warranty would not cover, building aftermarket 800+hp engine
3. caleb bennet , ATS #4 failure, piston replacement
4. byrce2.0t , ATS
5. shortfur7 , ATS 5200 miles #3&4 failure , piston replacement
6. soop3rn0t , ATS 6800 miles built 7/13 #4 failure, piston replacement
7. calicts CTS , 9000 miles, #1 failure , piston replacement
8. romanats , engine replacement
9. ElanX , ATS piston replacement
10. Shooter2384 , ATS piston replacement
11. chrisgarner , ATS engine replacement
12. Skenny50 , ATS 6000 miles, #4 failure , engine replacement
13. DB_Outlaw , ATS 12k miles, #1 failure, piston replacement , he sold car then new owner possibly had to have engine replacement
14. Firepower ATS. CTS 9k miles #1 failure piston replacement (replaced all 4)
15. TheRival, ATS. 5500 miles. #4 failure. Engine replacement.

 

Probably a good idea to file a complaint on the NHTSA https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/index.xhtml

 

^^^^ yep.. 15 reports might get their attention.

 

that not going to do anything because it was only a mechanical problem no big consequences

 

Went thru this with brakes on my RV.. It took a lot of lots of NHTSA reports to forced the OEM to issue a recall. It cost them 250,000 calipers and install $$$.

A few really bad accidents or deaths, heaven forbid, would do it. GM does not need another ignition key debacle.

 

Understand, this most likely did not show up in initial testing before production started, and after a vehicle is in production it is a huge undertaking to make a change. A OEM solution is not available to date as these have to be emptied each oil change, and most won't accept another maintenance procedure no matter how simple.

They can improve on and reduce the severity of this "gunk" accumulation though with a simple mod, but not eliminate or cure it without taking the steps to install the RX system.

Time will show more of a trend as far as failures as more miles are put on these.

 

What is the simple mod? Vent to atmosphere

 

No, that will result in even more of the combustion by-products accumulating in the crankcase. Venting ONLY relieves pressure, it defeats all evacuation, and also is in violation of all emissions.

You need to add a secondary evacuation suction source utilizing intake manifold vacuum for suction while in non-boost operation. A simple "T" into the evap vacuum line will work, and an inline checkvalve to ensure no boost pressure can back-flow into the crankcase via this connection. Only allow evac out, no pressure in. That will solve the accumulation of this "gunk", but will not prevent intake valve coking which is the long term issue to avoid. That requires the RX system to prevent that. The RX system corrects all of the issues.

www.RevXtreme.com

 

smurfkiller - I see you have reported your own first post - unable to edit or update that post. You are way beyond the cutoff timeline for editing: Please post your updates - not a total re-post - updates only.

 

A moderator can update it.

 

GM will never admit the issue they will rather spend money on engine replacement
Just out of curiosity went on a Buick Regal forum and not one complaint about engine failure
same engine this is starting to piss me off the more I think about it the more I realize that ATS
tuning is the cues of these Piston failures

 

Perhaps Regals have a different intercooler design that's not as susceptible to pooling (assuming that's the root cause of these engine failures).

Question: is there driving style that can prevent and/or remedy the pooling? Would a hard run help suck it all through at a rate that won't hurt the engine? Or does hard running make it worse by increasing blow-by?

 

Good point you bring up. To date we haven't seen any Regals, but we rarely work on them, but there could be a less efficient intercooler so less is condensing. As far as driving, that is hard to say. If driven hard always, it may push through smaller amounts of this "gunk" mix so less chance of hydro-lock, but if there is already a good amount accumulated in the intercooler like were seeing, then a sudden hard acceleration into boost suddenly will push a "gulp" of this into the intake manifold and thus the cylinders.

What we have seen in every case of failure, is no signs of detonation, and this is in the pictures posted and the engines we have tore down, every single failure has been the ringlands broken downward from the liquid ingested, and generally the pistons that fill first from the intake air charge (the liquid fill's these first as well). GM can keep replacing engines, but until this issue is addressed at the source, this will continue.

I would like to plug into some more techs working on these and share what to look for as far as removing charge pipe and inserting boroscope in to inspect the amount of accumulation, and inspect accumulation in bottom of intake manifold.

----------

Another simple band-aid would be to drill a small hole in the lowest part of the intercooler end caps (the plastic portion) and that will force the liquid out when running in boost....but that is a really ghetto way of doing it.

 

Just had my car serviced - had a rough idle with check engine light. Took it into the dealership and they found cylinder #4 piston was cracked with low compression. My 2.0T ATS is '13 with 17k miles. They replaced all four pistols and the car is running fine for now.

 

What another 17k and 4 more pistons. I really don't like seeing all these failures. Not cool.

 

Add him to the list... Cadillac Customer Service forward the list to someone who cares!

 

so 2.0 + rough idle + check engine light = cracked piston. what a devastating equation

 

= me driving through the dealer show room window:alchi:

 

Soooo, the last time I took my car to the dealer, I asked my Service Advisor how many 2.0Ts had he seen recently with bad pistons. His reply was "Not one."

Keep in mind, that this is a fairly high volume dealer in Metro DC and this was one of their "been here since they laid the foundation," SAs. I challenged him about the numbers of failures I've been seeing in the forums and he countered that "forums are forums" and usually are not the best sampling of the general population.

To that point, GM goes through extensive testing programs logging literally millions of miles before they put an engine into production. And the many variants of the 2.0T engine are going into A LOT of models with A LOT of test vehicles in their test fleets. You would think a design flaw that kills good engines in less than 20k miles would pop up. But here we are with a fairly good number of blown/damaged engines on this list.

Based on the data at hand, my guess is that there was either a parts or production defect centered around a specific batch of parts or production window at the root of this (which is really why we need people to start reporting their build dates so we can try to make some sense of this). If the problem is not related to a bad batch of parts or manufacturing issue, GM is setting itself up to replace 10s of thousands of engines over the next few years, which would be a devastating recall. I cannot see that being a realistic scenario.

 

I agree on needing the build date. It's a small and easy contribution that these users ca provide. At the same time, in previous posts a few have been 2013 and 1 a 2014. The "small window" may not be so small and the fact that some on here had their replacement engine go out can be evidence that this can be a large amount of cars.

Ed Morse Cadillac in Tampa, FL is the main dealer here and one of the mechanics is a friend of mine and he said they have had several with the piston problem and they are just replacing engines.

My .02

 

Testing with a fleet of 40 test mules and/or prototypes does not equal 2 years of thousands daily customers usage.

 

^^^Do you have the TSB number and, by chance, a link to the TSB you can post?