[cadillacmike68]

OK, I let my Fleetwood sit too long and it won't start. Again

I did this earlier in the year and had to change the spark plugs. They needed changing anyway because the car had hit 100,000 miles. I have only run it 2 or 3 times since then and the plugs have lass than 100 miles on them. I filled the tank, it was about half fill, with Shell.

Anyway, last week it again would not start. I think I might have a partially or fully clogged fuel line, any ideas on how to clear it without taking it all apart? It's a wet mess here with all the rain in FL.

I ran the battery down a bit, but It's fully charged now. If it stops raining I can leave the charger on while trying to start it again, but not while it's raining because it will trip the GFCI.

If I take that home plate baffle off can I spray some starting fluid into the throttle body - will that help it get going?

 

[mmarinov]

Hey Mike,

I had a similar no-start/hard-start condition last year. It came on suddenly, then stopped, then it happened again. in my case it was a bad FPR diaphragm causing a false "flood" reading. I bought a fuel pressure tester and went through the tests in the FSM - all good. I even pulled the rubber connector off the back and there was no indication of fuel nor fuel smell. After checking for several nights in a row I finally saw fuel in the boot and replaced the FPR - no problem since.

The reason I bring this up is that I was able to get the car ('96 FWB) to start by cranking and flooring the gas pedal. Contrary to what you'd expect, that action sends a "clear flood condition" to the PCM and in my case allowed the car to start. The fuel coming past the diaphragm caused the PCM to think there was a flood condition and manipulated the fuel pressure accordingly.

Something to try before purchasing a fuel pressure testing kit as it's simple and can get you down the right path if there's indeed a "fuel problem".

HTH

Mark

 

[cadillacmike68]

I'll try it when it stops raining.

 

[cadillacmike68]

Holding the accelerator down does not help. In fact trying to start with no pedal sounds better. It starts but will not stay running. Starting spray into the throttle bores helps, but it will not stay running.

This tells me no fuel to engine - am I correct?

 

[LV_Cady]

Hard to say without checking fuel pressure, engine data, & codes.
First place to try the fuel filter.
It could be a weak fuel pump.
You said it was better with new plugs before & it's been wet out. Maybe a weak ignition system.
Pul wires, cap, rotor, or coil.

Not saying to replace everything above.
But check if it's do for some maintenance tune-up items.

The cars should not have a starting problem after sitting a month.
In fact the selling point of the optispark was fast starting.
Fuel does not go bad in 1 month.

 

[cadillacmike68]

The fact that a spray of starter spray makes it start but fail to stay running tells me that the ignition is Ok. It has to be fuel. It sat for 3-4 months earlier this year and I had to change the plugs to get it to start. The fuel might have gelled and partially or fully clogged the fuel line. Or as you state, filter might be bad or pump weak. I've got those ordered along with a pressure regulator.

 

[jayoldschool]

These ones are pretty easy to trouble shoot.

1. Get your head under the rear bumper. Have someone turn the key to RUN (but don't start it). If you don't hear the pump, that is a problem. If you do,
2. Test fuel pressure on RUN, and on crank. If good,
3. Pull #1 plug. Reattach plug wire, hold threads against a ground, crank engine, no spark, then,
4. Check coil wire and ICM. Carefully check the wiring that is on that little stud on the head, those wires break easily.

 

[cadillacmike68]

I'd surely do the fuel tests but the continual rains here (Tampa FL area) have turned the side of my house where the car is parked into a giant swamp. It's been raining all day and there's about 2" of water there.

What is the ICM??

I'm almost certain that spark is good. It starts but won't stay running.

 

[jayoldschool]

Ignition Control Module.

Get back to us when you can test the fuel pressure. You can get a tester cheap from Harbor Freight, or borrow one from Pep Boys/Advance Auto/etc.

 

[cadillacmike68]

I'll see about a pressure tester. I hope it is in the engine compartment because you need to be a SCUBA diver to work under the car right now. It's been raining all week here.

 

[LV_Cady]

When you remove the top of engine baffle "home plate" it makes the mass airflow sensor signals inaccurate because all the air is no longer flowing thru it. By adding fuel with the intake hoses apart you may be getting it to try to almost start but created another problem with the MAF so it wont want to run. Especially with an inaccurate fuel source.

Starting fluid is some bad stuff IMO. Unless it's about -10 F outside and freezing your azz off trying to start an engine, I would avoid. No reason for it in FL. Starting fluid can even combust like a diesel without spark. Causing you to think the spark is ok. Anytime you spray a fuel source in the intake you take a risk of an intake backfire.

 

[cadillacmike68]

OK, I'll put it all back and try again and note the results, Once it stops raining.

 

[cadillacmike68]

OK,

I had a scheduled trip from Friday until this past Tuesday so I couldn't work on it. And it was raining constantly for about two entire weeks or more thus making things more difficult.

I got the battery charged up in between the monsoons on Friday. The charger tripped the garage GFCI once because of the rains and I had to relocate it, but it got fully charged. Rained most of Sat, but stopped in the late afternoon. Today it was clearer, and hadn't rained. I placed some boards down alongside the car so I wouldn't track 50 lbs of mud in the car again, and verified that the battery was still fully charged.

I then buttoned up all the air intake after a final shot of starting spray in each side of the throttle - devil be damned, I can handle a little backfire. That took a couple minutes. I also shook the trunk, which I hadn't done before. I put the key ON and tried to listen for the fuel pump. I think I heard it over the annoying door open ringing.

I went to start it and it started right up and ran smoothly.

WTF

The only thing I did different was I bounced the trunk a few times...

Might there have been something blocking the strainer?

So now I have the manual out, all 2,000 some odd pages, and will look up testing the fuel pressure. I'll also try to find a shop with a fiber optic camera to look inside the fuel tank. I have the new Spectra Premium full assembly, new fuel filter and new pressure regulator if any of those are bad. If the pump needs replacing, that will get some by someone else, I can't drop the tank myself.

I took it out for a nice long highway trip, got it up to the PCM max speed fuel shutoff a couple times. It ran smoothly the entire time. No active Engine codes. I'll put the Innova on it tomorrow to check for history codes.

Perplexed. Figures, as soon as I order all the parts, it starts...

Now it is in the driveway until the dry season.

I need to get a new cover too. The old one simply disintegrated in the Florida sun.

 

[jayoldschool]

Probably a failing pump. You can usually get one to go by banging on the tank a couple times. Update your AAA card to get ready for the stretcher ride, just in case.

 

[cadillacmike68]

Well, the pump (complete Spectra Premium assembly), filter and pressure regulator are all here. Might as well have the first two installed. I don't think there is anything wrong with the pressure regulator, otherwise the 108 run would not have gone smoothly. I need to run the tank down to a few gallons first.

 

[cadillacmike68]

I have a siphon. I'll try to siphon off most of the fuel and put it the CTSs

 

[jayoldschool]

If your pump works, you can use the pressure test port and the pump hot wire lead connector under the hood to pump out the tank.

 

[cadillacmike68]

Jay, put a hose on the port and wire that lead to the battery positive or what? And which wire would that be, or what page / section in the manual is the circuit explained?

 

[silverfox103]

Mike, the wire that Jason is talking about is on the passenger side, inner fender well, towards the firewall. It is a red wire and has an electrical termination on it. Connect that to a hot lead or battery terminal.

Tom

 

[trying2drive]

OK, I let my Fleetwood sit too long and it won't start. Again

I did this earlier in the year and had to change the spark plugs. They needed changing anyway because the car had hit 100,000 miles. I have only run it 2 or 3 times since then and the plugs have lass than 100 miles on them. I filled the tank, it was about half fill, with Shell.

Anyway, last week it again would not start. I think I might have a partially or fully clogged fuel line, any ideas on how to clear it without taking it all apart? It's a wet mess here with all the rain in FL.

I ran the battery down a bit, but It's fully charged now. If it stops raining I can leave the charger on while trying to start it again, but not while it's raining because it will trip the GFCI.

If I take that home plate baffle off can I spray some starting fluid into the throttle body - will that help it get going?

It is your fuel pump. Simple fix. Look up a video by Googling and do it yourself