Cadillac Owners Forum banner

1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
1995 caddilac base 4.9. replaced north✴ with steel bl
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Ok ive been pouring through the fwd deville forum about the operation tempeture for the car above. Found plenty on the norths but because is craped on me it was replaced with the same 4.9 pfi that is oem with the exception of its build material. I hope it will prove worth its replacment hassel. But im told that 190 is where it needs to be by a close source, but was not sure because i would assume that the aluminum at 210 .( lighter metal) would not run as hot as a steel block might. As It is , it will run 223 . but im told that will warp its piston heads . it might be different because its an engine but steel normaly wont warp untill 400plus. (No reason to ever get that hot). Alas thats why im here seeking advive from those more adept than myself. Any wisdom would be much appreciated because now im not driving it because of being safe than sorry with a warped engine thats brand new. Would a cooling system beyond the oem be in order because of the material change? Something more After Market? Suggestions? Much appreciated guys.
 

·
Administrator
2002.5 F55 CORSA STS, 2014 Explorer XLT FWD
Joined
·
68,495 Posts
The metal that the block and cylinder heads are made from has no bearing on the temperatures the finished engine will run at. Using thermostat settings and coolant pressure adjustments you can get any engine to run at 150 degrees, 200 degrees, 250 degrees, 300 degrees and it would make no difference in gasket or warpage problems.

Nowadays, with modern coolants and circulation systems most engines are designed to run at between 190 and 215 degrees. The Northstar thermostats are set to begin opening at 188 and fully open at 206, so if the engine runs at ~195 the thermostat is about 75% open. The 4.9 runs at about the same temperature. That temperature range produces a pretty efficient, emissions friendly, high performing engine. Oil, running in that internal temperature environment, flows and lubricates wel - as well as having less drag on parts than cooler oil and stays cleaner than cooler oil because the warm oil boils off moisture and combustion acids for removal and burning by the PCV system.

"Piston heads" never come in contact with coolant - only in contact with 1,000 degree combustion chamber temperatures. Cylinder heads have cooling passages which carry away combustion heat and heat transferred from the exhaust valves and seats to the head metal.

Whichever engine you have - a 4.9 is very, very, very different from the N* 4.6 - it should run between 185 and 210 all the time. The fanciful speculation about warpage and temperatures is not correct.

How did you get the 4.9 to run on the 4.6 OBD-1 waste spark ignition and different engine controls ? Are you quite sure you know which engine the base 1995 Deville came with ???
 

·
Registered
1991 Cadillac Brougham D'Elegance 5.7 Litre, 1994 DeVille
Joined
·
6,796 Posts
There is no 4.9 northstar. They are two different engines. 4.9 is an aluminum block. Whatever you've done the original cooling system should be more then adequate for the job as long as it's operating properly.
 

·
Master of the Dark Art of Diagnostics
2003 DHS - two-2002 DHS, 2003 SLS, 1995 Sedan DeVille, 1989 Coupe DeVille
Joined
·
19,278 Posts
Ok ive been pouring through the fwd deville forum about the operation tempeture for the car above. Found plenty on the norths but because is craped on me it was replaced with the same 4.9 pfi that is oem with the exception of its build material. I hope it will prove worth its replacment hassel. But im told that 190 is where it needs to be by a close source, but was not sure because i would assume that the aluminum at 210 .( lighter metal) would not run as hot as a steel block might. As It is , it will run 223 . but im told that will warp its piston heads . it might be different because its an engine but steel normaly wont warp untill 400plus. (No reason to ever get that hot). Alas thats why im here seeking advive from those more adept than myself. Any wisdom would be much appreciated because now im not driving it because of being safe than sorry with a warped engine thats brand new. Would a cooling system beyond the oem be in order because of the material change? Something more After Market? Suggestions? Much appreciated guys.
============================
there is so much wrong with this post -
not sure where to even start -

you list the car as a '95 BASE Deville -
it came with the 4.9 motor - NOT a Northstar motor -

if the car came with a Northstar motor -
it must be a Concours model -
not a base model Deville -

the 4.9 motor is not a steel block -
it is an aluminum block - with steel sleeves -
and steel heads -

what/how did you deal with the entire electrical system/PCM - :suspect:
engine control systems etc -

something just doesn't add up here - :hmm:
something is starting to smell fishy - :nono:
 

·
Registered
1995 caddilac base 4.9. replaced north✴ with steel bl
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Wow. Pretty ignorant on my part. You guys are right after looking at the orginal engine it was always a 4.9l i just assumed it all came with the northstar brand. the orginal was toast really warped. I couldnt find a brand new one so for 4500$ i picked one up with just over 23,000 miles on it. Okay So 223 it a little hot and anywhere below 210 is fine? I ordered a new radiator. After changing the fan, coolant, oil. ,oilpump ,heatercore, waterpump and hoses ( i was in the process so i just went part happy, cleared a good chunk of my check though) so its the last thing i can think of that would be causing the temp to creep up . although i justed rented a rad pressure tester and im leaking about 2 poumds pounds every 20 minutes so im sure now thats its problem. But i bout had a heartattack because steam shot straight up from between the water pump and gasket just as i was about to cut the engine off. i could see bubles coming out so i probley fried the gasket did an unacceptable job on it im guessing. Troublesome because it wasn't complicated. Gonna have to do that again not normal. But at 210 i wouldnt be in danger of breaking anything correct. At 223 do i run a risk ? changing it reguardless before any further damage.

----------

Idk shop did all that mess im not able to do it myself

----------

Idk shop dealt with all that mess im not inclined for all that. But my uncles freind works there so he hes the one that did it all himself.
 

·
Master of the Dark Art of Diagnostics
2003 DHS - two-2002 DHS, 2003 SLS, 1995 Sedan DeVille, 1989 Coupe DeVille
Joined
·
19,278 Posts
Wow. Pretty ignorant on my part. You guys are right after looking at the orginal engine it was always a 4.9l i just assumed it all came with the northstar brand. the orginal was toast really warped. I couldnt find a brand new one so for 4500$ i picked one up with just over 23,000 miles on it. Okay So 223 it a little hot and anywhere below 210 is fine? I ordered a new radiator. After changing the fan, coolant, oil. ,oilpump ,heatercore, waterpump and hoses ( i was in the process so i just went part happy, cleared a good chunk of my check though) so its the last thing i can think of that would be causing the temp to creep up . although i justed rented a rad pressure tester and im leaking about 2 poumds pounds every 20 minutes so im sure now thats its problem. But i bout had a heartattack because steam shot straight up from between the water pump and gasket just as i was about to cut the engine off. i could see bubles coming out so i probley fried the gasket did an unacceptable job on it im guessing. Troublesome because it wasn't complicated. Gonna have to do that again not normal. But at 210 i wouldnt be in danger of breaking anything correct. At 223 do i run a risk ? changing it reguardless before any further damage.

----------

Idk shop did all that mess im not able to do it myself

----------

Idk shop dealt with all that mess im not inclined for all that. But my uncles freind works there so he hes the one that did it all himself.
=========================
it was always a 4.9 -
so - all you did was swap a used 4.9
in place of the original 4.9 - OK -

the T-Stat should be a 195* unit -
I recommend ONLY ACDelco or Stant -

be sure the cap is tested to hold 15-PSI -

im leaking about 2 poumds pounds every 20 minutes
so im sure now thats its problem.


with the engine cold -
pump the system up to EXACTLY 20 PSI -
that pressure is completely safe for test purposes -

it should hold that pressure forever -
and not bleed down - at all -
unless there is a leak somewhere -
 

·
Registered
1991 Cadillac Brougham D'Elegance 5.7 Litre, 1994 DeVille
Joined
·
6,796 Posts
223 is not unheard of but shouldn't be runnning at that all the time. Make sure the cap is good and if it still has leaks that they are fixed and then see what temperature is doing.
 

·
Registered
1992 Fleetwood S&S Hearse, 1993 Buick Roadmaster
Joined
·
567 Posts
I hope the part about the engine costing $4500 is a misprint. I'd have sold you my whole car for that. You would have got lots of spare parts for your money.
 

·
Master of the Dark Art of Diagnostics
2003 DHS - two-2002 DHS, 2003 SLS, 1995 Sedan DeVille, 1989 Coupe DeVille
Joined
·
19,278 Posts
I hope the part about the engine costing $4500 is a misprint. I'd have sold you my whole car for that. You would have got lots of spare parts for your money.
===========================
I wasn't going to mention that he got bent-over - BIG TIME - on the motor -

I won't even ask what he paid for all the other stuff -

but I bet he didn't get a quality SPECTRA CU856 radiator -
and I bet he paid more than $110 - including free shipping -
for whatever he did get -

========================

Checkers -
now that you found us -
check here before you make any big purchases
or plan any further repairs -

we HATE seeing people getting screwed on this stuff -
and we LOVE helping - any way we can -
 

·
Registered
1995 caddilac base 4.9. replaced north✴ with steel bl
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
No not a misprint. This was my first ever engine buy and was assured for the miles on it, was any the better i would find. Albeit did seem heafty i had it pitted against its litre size and it being in a caddilac just seemed fitting to justify. However as stated not the case ... Not psyched about that one. And you would be right im looking for a replacment radiator. Didnt know what was really quality over its oem one, if there is one at all
 

·
Registered
70 Deville 77 Fleet 78 Seville 92 Deville 03 Deville
Joined
·
3,310 Posts
What about that leak at the water pump gasket? If you are losing coolant it will start running warmer eventually.
 

·
Registered
1995 caddilac base 4.9. replaced north✴ with steel bl
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Im sure mabe at least, the only thing i now know i did wrong was the correct torquing of pounds of presure. Im guessing not tight enough making it very possible for pressure to shoot out. I thought i had blown the engine with all the white smoke coming out, but after i poped the hood it was shooting out of the faceplate and its gasket gonna have to buy another gasket no biggie. But not good either. Other than that mabe the heat weakened it to failure. As far as leaks go i havent seen leaks of any kind coming from the bottom of the pump nor any drips on the sstreet. again while i do enjoy replacing things myself and seeing how it goes together ; i am no Professional. Might just have to take a dent in the wallet and hope they dont screw anything else up to get me to come back. Not all shops are like that but my area is notorious
 

·
Administrator
2002.5 F55 CORSA STS, 2014 Explorer XLT FWD
Joined
·
68,495 Posts
For most of your car and engine work/repair a good local Mom&Pop shop is OK. Try to invest a few bucks into decent tools and basic test gear and keep trying to do some of the simple stuff - you'll quickly learn. I started wrenching on cars 62 years ago and still learn every day. At 14 I worked part-time as a greasemonkey understudy boy in an AMOCO station with outdoor grease rack. 35 cents an hour. Januaries were fun.

Spend some money on either a hard copy GM/Helm service manual set from eBay or a multi-year subscription for THAT car to www.alldatadiy.com. You'll see us talk about TSBs, RPOs, DTCs, other acronyms. It's all in Alldata - it's updated; the paper manuals are not.
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top