Cadillac Owners Forum banner

21 - 40 of 41 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter #21
really?? hmmm ill look into that definitely.... i replaced the one on the frame but i never knew of one bein in the gas tank. anyways... im down to like 3 things... the computer... fuel injectors... or possibly that fuel filter in the gas tank if i have one. but then i get really thrown off with this error sayin circuit fault. grrrr.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter #22
was curious... any one ever had E.52 and replaced a computer for their car and it fixed the problem?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
Did you clear the codes? Your car does have a CMP sensor, the factory manual calls it a Hall Effect Switch. With the help of another recent poster, I found the part. I have a 1990 Deville showing the same code E041 and stalling. Now all I got to do is to figure out how to get the cap and rotor off to check the wiring and swap out that switch. I think you should get in there yourself and check the wiring and maybe test that switch. It could be your problem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
My father has an 89 Brougham RWD that just had the same symptoms. Turned out it was a vacuum line that was cracked. The shop replaced all the vacuum lines and now it runs like a champ!! Good Luck
 

·
Registered
1997 Seville STS, 1998 Seville STS, 2001 Seville SLS
Joined
·
51 Posts
MusicCity said:
Did you clear the codes? Your car does have a CMP sensor, the factory manual calls it a Hall Effect Switch. With the help of another recent poster, I found the part. I have a 1990 Deville showing the same code E041 and stalling. Now all I got to do is to figure out how to get the cap and rotor off to check the wiring and swap out that switch. I think you should get in there yourself and check the wiring and maybe test that switch. It could be your problem.
OK. At the request of Music City I'll put this info here for you guys... I posted this in the 4.9 Forum:
E041 - No Cam Sensor Signal.

Just replaced my cam sensor in my 92 Eldo w/ 4.9L. It's in the same place on yours (with a 4.5L) -- it is under the plate that under the rotor in your distributor. It's two screws to get it out and it just unplugs. It's like a $100 part. Tell the parts shop you're looking for the "hall effect switch". It's a hall-effect type cam sensor and for some reason that's how it's listed everywhere (Checker, Autozone, Napa, etc).
Here's a link on cskauto.com with a picture it's only like a 1/2" tall and 1" wide. http://www.partsamerica.com/PartDet...ype=200&PTSet=A
My symptoms where slight miss and very high idle when cold. Decreased gas milage, and usually a SES light on idle or low RPMs, most often when cold.

FYI --- I had a hell of a time figuring out that the cam sensor was a hall effect switch. Everyone at the autoparts stores kept telling me that it had no cam sensor (no cam sensors until the N*). Well it's because it's listed as a hall-effect switch (more accurately it's a hall-effect type cam sensor). I stumbled across the term only because one autoparts guy said "it lists a hall effect switch, but I don't know what that is..." So a figured out what it is. GM uses it as a cam sensor in HEI ignitions.

So... here's how to replace it. Remove your air intake from the throttle body and air cleaner. Then remove the spark plug wires, remember to mark which ones go where. Remove the distributor cap (four screws at the base). Remove the rotor. Remove the plate under the rotor. You'll see the ignition module, pickup coil, & hall effect cam sensor. The hall-effect cam sensor is directly accross from teh ignition module. There is a picture if you click the link above. It has a black peice of plastic behind the wires that sits in the distributor housing, it pulls up to allow for the wire plug to be removed. Remove the plastic plate. Now the tricky part. Remove the two screws that hold the hall effect switch in. This is tricky because the plate for the rotor kind of gets in the way of getting straight down on top of the screws. Use a thin nut driver. Once you get the screws out, lift up the end of the hall effect switch with the wire plug on it, unplug the wires. Now you'll have to sort of finess the switch out, it's possible, just be patient. It's small it the space to get it out is small as well. Look at the new one while you're doing this to see what it could get hung up on, there's a pointy peice of plastic on the top of the inside part that likes to get hung up on the rotor plate. You may have to crank the engine just a little to get the rotor plate to be in a position that will allow you to remove the cam sensor screws and remove it. Once you get it out, do the above in reverse. You're done.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
:banghead: I have been having the same problem with my 90 Deville for about two years now. The problem is, the car only acts this way when temperatures get above 80 or so, and the car has been running for a while. I have narrowed it down to a fuel system problem. Here is why: when the car starts to act funny, I stop into the nearest gas station and fill up. When I get back on the road, the symptoms disappear.

Like the original poster, fuel system pressure seems to be normal, but how else do you explain this problem never occuring on a full, fresh tank of gas? Also, my car runs through fuel injectors like water! I have replaced five of eight injectors in less than two years. There is obviously some sort of fuel delivery problem, and I would guess from reading other posts here that many of these cars have similar issues.

It HAS to be a fuel pump heat issue, and I am going to test this by replacing the pump, tank, and filters this weekend. I can almost guarantee this will solve my problems, and hopefully can help those of you out there with 4.5/4.9s that have similar issues. Also, I have been told by a competent Cadillac mechanic that the 90-93 style FWD Caddys had a poorly designed fuel tank, and that this is part of the issue with sputtering and stalling 4.5s.
Hopefiully he is right, as I don't want to have to sell such a nice automobile due to such ridiculous problems. :rant2:

I'd also like to know if any of the gurus here can confirm or disconfirm the tank design issue. Thanks for letting me (sort-of) rant. :worship:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
With my 90, I have tried that a number of times, but it never helps. When my car develops a miss, I know right away that another injector bit the dust.

My theory is that because the fuel filter was never changed (I bought the car with 88,000 on the clock in 2002), it somehow mangled up the fuel pump from overheating (maybe regulator too), and now with restored pressure, it also eats injectors as an added bonus. But that's just my theory, your results may differ (dramatically!).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
I just swapped out the cam sensor yesterday, and my car is running better than ever. No stalling, no check engine light. Before the idle was allover the place and would stall anytime I stepped into the gas. Guess I got lucky. You should take yours out to prove to yourself that you do indeed have one on your car and test it. If you take off your cap and rotor, its opposite the module, tucked up underneath the plate. Two screws, and a plug. 1/4'' nut driver at an angle will get it. It's worth a shot, it fixed mine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,178 Posts
I'm seeing some problems with my truck here too. Well when i drop off the gas, The Truck sputters, sounds like its about to die, then comes back. It happens only at low speeds or in reverse. New transmission and transfer case. Whats your take. I'm gonna replace the fuel filter this weekend.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter #32
well well, i replaced the cam sensor ( yes it is called the hall effect switch ) i figured out i had one about a week ago... and anyways i got it and replaced it..... i believe i cleared the codes right... butttttt it didnt fix my problem!!!!???????? grrrr...... my car is still doin the same thing, but its weird because sometimes i get a burst of a good run and it will run fine for up to 10min?. i've replaced like all the freakin smog emissions and stuff. grr... i dont know what to do, i'm totally stumped... i'm leadin to a shorted computer.... but thats just kinda up in the air. when i'm on the gas and going down the road it will start cuttin out.. and if i give it gas it doesnt rev up (unless it clears out) it will either back fire, stall, or barely drive... i've ran fuel injection cleaner thru the tank ( whether that stuff really works or not, thought i'd try it ) and it didnt help. i'm still gettin e41 after replacin the cam sensor..... which means "cam sensor problem or circuit fault" ..... sooooo whats a circuit fault? oh yeah check engine is on constantly. but it goes away intermittently
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter #33
anyone...any thoughts again? please. thx! oh yeah sometimes after runnin it then tryin to start it back up it wont start, it acts as if the starter doesnt get any power to it... all the lights and bells work though on the dash. it will take like 15-30min for it to turn over.. i dont know if this is some kind of weird security issue or what? lol.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter #34
blehhh i guess its time to put the caddy up for sale. anyone interested in a 1990 Cadillac FLEETWOOD 2DOOR!!(rare)? Pearl white, blue velvet interior. 125K miles. 4.5L V8 w/ flowmaster. practically all new emmisions. problem: cant figure out why the car is sputtering so badly, roughly idling, shaking, can back fire. getting error code 41 (even replaced cam sensor). ill be gettin a link with pictures. i'm gettin rid of it because i can't keep blowin out money and not fixing it. its time to take the loss :(. i need to have fun with my money! NOT BLOW IT IM 17!
 

·
Registered
87 Deville
Joined
·
630 Posts
Don't get rid of your Cadillac just yet, hang on to it and we will help you get this problem solved one way or the other. You could end up buying another car that has more problems than your Caddy does. At least with your car you know what you have in it.
Now we need to get a Cadillac expert on this problem, he goes by "*********" I will leave him a PM and see what he has to say about this. It has to be somthing simple and we can elliminate all the upgrades you have done so far which will be a big help. Be patient and lets see what we can do here. :)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,575 Posts
HooDLuM said:
blehhh i guess its time to put the caddy up for sale. anyone interested in a 1990 Cadillac FLEETWOOD 2DOOR!!(rare)? Pearl white, blue velvet interior. 125K miles. 4.5L V8 w/ flowmaster. practically all new emmisions. problem: cant figure out why the car is sputtering so badly, roughly idling, shaking, can back fire. getting error code 41 (even replaced cam sensor). ill be gettin a link with pictures. i'm gettin rid of it because i can't keep blowin out money and not fixing it. its time to take the loss :(. i need to have fun with my money! NOT BLOW IT IM 17!
You mention the pick up coil is ok.....how do you know?? The pick up coil is in the base of the distributor around the distributor shaft where the star wheel reference signal generator is at. Take the distributor cap off, look for the star wheel down under the rotor and find the pick up coil wires to the HEI module. Disconnect them and run a continuity check on the pickup coild with a VOM. Wiggle the wires and the coil and see if there is an intermittant continuity problem. Heat the pickup coil with a hair dryer as you do the continuity check to see if the intermittant condition is heat sensitive.

Problems like this require diagnosis to determine the root cause of the problem. Wholesale replacement of parts will not usually cure problems like this (unless you accidentally replace the right part) and wholesale part replacement is NOT diagnosing the problem..... That is why it is recommended to diagnose rather than just replace parts willy-nilly....it gets expensive and it rarely is successful.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter #37
thx for some more help, i appreciate it. well you see, i had taken it to the shop and they replaced things and charged me and it still didnt fix it. i've even taken it to cadillac and they replaced some things and as soon as i drove it off the lot it was sputtering. i didnt get it. anyways, ill test what your talking about definitely and see what happens ( if i haven't done this already ). ill keep you updated, thx SoundAdvantage for some help, and thanks to *********
 

·
Registered
98 Devil, 93 Deville, 84 Cuttylac built 350 olds, Arctic Cat
Joined
·
181 Posts
sounds like your injectors, suprised no one here had mentioned that.. the car will rev up and sound nice in park, when you drive it sputters, has no power and the transmission seems like it doesnt want to shift because lack of power...

i would ohm out all of the fuel injectors and make sure that all 8 are in good condition.
that is actually a common problem.. well i would think so. my cuz had the same year caddy as me with acouple injectors went bad..

do that and get back to me let me know if it solves the prob for you bro...

brian
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter #39
i definitely got some kinda of circuit fault. my battery went dead, its hard for it start, sometimes i try clicking it over and it wont start, it just makes the click noise, so i have to turn key on n off a few times to get it to turn over. damn.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
It is fairly common for an automobile that has been running rich, and possibly with incorrect timing, to not want to re-start after it has warmed up a bit. It is also common for a battery to go bad if you are cranking it for 15 minutes, which it sounds like may be the case. So, lets look first at the original problem. If your egr "tubes" (found underneath the throttle body) are filled with carbon, which they commonly are with a machine of high millage, it will run rich. The egr valve, even though you replaced the thing, will not function if the tubes are clogged. This will cause the rich condition to start pumping raw gasoline into the catalytic converter. This is what was referred to earlier as your "cats" and that you should check them. There is only one. It sets crosswise just behind your trans axle and is part of the exhaust system. This thing works by getting very, very hot. If there has indeed been raw gas running into it the insides are eaten away, causing sudden backpressure in the system as the pieces flop around in the exhaust flow making the car bog with throttle response and power going away. The "backfires" you mentioned (if this is the correct scenario) are actually charges of unburned gas exploding in the catalytic converter. This gets progressively worse until a hole is blown right through the metal to the outside, at which time you will have no problem deciding where the explosions are coming from as it will sound like a stick of dynamite going off right under your feet. Ok. If this is what has happened it gets worse here because the egr valve will not function at all once the hole appears because a GM EGR needs to have backpressure in the exhaust system for the valve to work! Open the butterfly in your throttle body all the way with the air cleaner off, look straight down inside the galley with a flashlight. There is an egr tube underneath both butterfly openings. Are they clogged? If so then clean them out (ALL THE WAY THROUGH) with whatever pointy shaped tool you can get down there, then have a muffler shop replace the catalytic converter. It will run just under $200. Now I understand your thinking that the ecm (the brain) may be bad but it is extra rare for this to happen. The thing has an amazingly low failure rate. Please do this to make sure: Go to the nearest Autozone and tell the counter person to look up your car, when he/she asks what part you need tell them to print out this command on the computer: "HOW TO GET ECM TROUBLECODE" you will then have in your hand, to take home with you, about two hours worth of diagnostic readout information that your system is capable of pulling for you. It goes way beyond what I have been able to find online, and way, way beyond what is available in the common shop manuals for your car. If your car is able to do all the tricks that the readout says is possible then your "brain" is good. Use it to clear that E.4.1 code that is probably being held in "history" rather than real time. If it comes up again consider that the Hall effect CPS that you replaced is fragile and they put it in a place that is almost impossible to reach. I would pull it out if the code comes up again and look it over for broken bits. If it is still whole then open up the wiring looms all the way back to the ECM looking for a short, or broken wire. The final thing you have going on is a bad ground on your battery. When the thing just clicks, and then starts "sometimes" you need to at least clean and then tighten the negative lead at the battery first, and then at the other end of the cable, sometimes replacing the cable as well. Pick up a good battery brush while you are at the "Zone" and use it. One final word here- buy a can of starter fluid and spray all around the base of the throttle body, the edges of the intake manifold, and everywhere that you can see where vacuum lines end up. If there are any vacuum leaks this will make the engine try to stall, or at least change the idle drastically. While the electronics can usually keep it running even with a bit of a leak here and there it reaches a point where you have to replace the things. Good luck bro.
 
21 - 40 of 41 Posts
Top