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2009 CTS
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Discussion Starter #1
Hello guy's
I have a 09 CTS base model (Non DI motor) with now at about 75,000 miles. The car runs great and I love it!! But, I need to ask you guy's a question before I take it into the dealership.
The engine makes a noise every time when cranked when it's at operating temp. Never does it on cold starting. If I had to describe it, it almost sounds like starting a diesel but only lasts for just a few seconds at the very most. Other wise the car runs great as always.
Also the car seems to use oil. Almost a quart ever two to three thousand miles I have to add a quart. I'm using mobile one oil and change it religiously. No leaks anywhere at all either. Just uses it.
I'm just wondering if this is the norm on these engines or if I do have a problem. I have a bit of power train warranty left so I need to get some input ASAP so if know if I should bring it in.
Please, respectfully this isn't one of those Caddy bashing threads as I love my CTS and plan on keeping her for awhile. I just need to know whats the norm! :)
I might also ask how are these engines doing in the upper end of mileage
Thanks in advance
Steve
 

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2008 CTS 3.6L DI RWD, GMPP new engine 11/2013
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Smokeys427,

Re: Oil Consumption

GM considers "almost a quart ever two to three thousand miles" to be normal and acceptable. Even if oil burn were more severe, based on my experience: http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/2008-cadillac-cts-general-discussion/280986-extended-warranty-yes-no.html#post3213237, I doubt that GM would honor your powertrain warranty in regards to excessive oil consumption.

Excerpt from...

Bulletin #01-06-01-011F: Information on Engine Oil Consumption Guidelines, January 13, 2009
Models: 2009 and prior GM passenger cars and gasoline-powered light duty trucks
Oil Consumption: The accepted rate of oil-consumption for engines used in the vehicles referenced is 0.946 liter (1 qt) in 3200km (2000 mi).
Important: This rate only applies to personal use vehicles, under warranty, that are driven in a non-aggressive manner and maintained in accordance with the appropriate maintenance schedule, with less than 58,000 km (36,000 mi), or driven at legal speeds in an unloaded (for trucks) condition...

Have not seen the latest bulletin update, but I was told "no material changes."
 

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Still, it's a copout and we know it. In today's tight tolerance engines that kind of oil consumption is not acceptable. Just my opinion, and y'all know we all have an opinion. This is the internet, after all.
 
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Smokeys427, I see the community members are already hopping on to offer the opinions that you're seeking. So, I just wanted to let you know I'm on hand if you would like any assistance contacting the dealer on your behalf. Please feel free to email me at [email protected] anytime if you have any questions you'd like me to explore on your behalf!

Best,

Katie
Cadillac Customer Service
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Thank you Katie for the help you are giving me.
Since no one on here at the forums seem to think or has a engine noise like I describe on my CTS or think it's the norm on warm crank-up, It looks like or seems that mine just might have a problem.
I'm going to take it into the dealer in Terrell Texas and hope I get some sort of resolve.
Also, I just checked the oil on it again and after about a 1000 miles...Sure enough, it's about a quart low again.
If I don't get and help I'll sign on again and maybe you can send me to the right person/person's to talk to. Again I love the car but just want these things to be fixed or at least tell me it's normal and get it documented.
I plan to take a trip across the country in a few months and want peace of mind knowing it's not going to give me and my family problems.
As for the car "using oil", In all my 63 years I have never had a car that I bought with under 72,000 miles used oil like this one is. It doesn't leak or smoke at all so I'm hoping that they run an oil consumption test and we can go from there.

Thank you again Katie for chiming in and helping out :)
 
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Yes, I can definitely understand your perspective, Smokeys! It's great that you're planning to bring this to your dealer's attention before your extended trip. And please do let me know if you would like our team to investigate further for you at any point in the process.

Katie
Cadillac Customer Service
 

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Discussion Starter #9
OK, I went to the dealership Called Musser Chevrolet/Cadillac in Terrell Texas. ( www.mussermotors.com )
The service writer was very nice and seemed helpful at first. BUT, as we cranked the vehicle he and I both heard the noise, and his reply was "it was not loud enough!"
To me any noise that is not supposed to be there shouldn't! I asked him what to do and all he said is to drive it till it gets louder???
To me sort of cop out like.
At least he should have gotten a tech to hear the sound too.
I also asked him about the heavy oil usage and he said I would need to bring it in and let them change the oil when it was due to be changed and then they would do a oil consumption test. I told him I just changed it and it's full now and he replied to bring it in when it needed changing. Well in the mean time I'll be running up the additional mileage on my power train.
I just have this gut feeling that they want out of their hair and out of warranty so they don't have to deal with issue (again just a gut feeling).
He also told me that he's never heard of these engines using any oil and yet going through the forum here I see it now quite prevalent.
So at this point I'm not sure what to do......
Katie, again I may need your help on this one and what steps to take now.
I love the car and don't want to get rid of it. I want to keep it and have it run and not make this noise and have satisfaction that when I leave for our summer vacation we won't be on the side of the road with my family with a bad engine.
Thanks in advance
Steve (aka Smokeys427)
 

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06 SRX 3.6L 2WD
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If you do your own oil changes, and don't mind spending an extra $30 or so at the next oil change, get a new oil filter cap. That solved my minor startup noise.

A quart every 2 to 3K miles is well within normal limits. All engines use oil. Make sure that your air filter housing is not leaking. There is a bulletin and a procedure, but if the air filter is not changed right (and it doesn't matter who or where), it can leak and wear out rings. Are you the original owner?

I would document (record) the noise, submit to the oil consumption test, and make sure the dealer is putting in your file.

My SRX (same engine) has almost 180K. I didn't baby it, had to do timing chains and tensioners at 167K. Plugs went 167K without misfiring but were well worn. Guzzles oil at twice the rate you are getting. Still runs great and I still like the vehicle.

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Still, it's a copout and we know it. In today's tight tolerance engines that kind of oil consumption is not acceptable.
Just curious. Is there a manufacturer who doesn't have an engine where some complain about oil consumption? Is there one who will warranty an engine rebuild if it is consuming a quart every 2K?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Hi ktr-sb thanks for the info. :)
Yes, I do my own oil changes and never wait for the oil life meter to tell me. I'm old school and change my oil at 4000-5000 mile intervals.
May I ask you though how did the oil cap relate to your engine noise? Just curious on that one.
I'll also check the air filter and housing and see how it looks and the sealing of it.

All engines use oil
Of course with all duel respect, that one I have to disagree with to a degree. I have a '92 C4 Corvette (w/50K) came factory with mobile one and still use it on it and a '08 F-150 (w/90K) and an old '89 Chevrolet 3500 Dually farm truck (w/150K) that I use to pull my tractor and gets it butt worked hard and none of these use oil at the rate my CTS does. Again, I have never in my 60 years have owned a car that used this much oil.
Except of course when I was a kid back in the 60's and owned a couple ole of junky cars that leaked oil or were mosquito sprayers back in the day and just plain worn out ...LOL. But this day in age with the way engines are built this shouldn't happen.
But again I thank you for your input and for the info on the oil cap and the air filter and housing. I will check those things ASAP in the morning. :)
 
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...Katie, again I may need your help on this one and what steps to take now...
Smokeys, my week unfortunately ends shortly at 4:30pm EST, so I recommend getting in touch with my phone hotline counterparts who are Cadillac Customer Assistance Center (800-458-8006, open Mon to Sat, 8am to 9pm EST). They are your best resources for immediate assistance. Having the last eight of your VIN handy would be very helpful when you call. Then, you will have an assigned agent researching your concerns for you and determining the options available to you based on their gathered information!

Best,

Katie
Cadillac Customer Service
 

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Hi ktr-sb thanks for the info. :)
My pleasure.

Yes, I do my own oil changes and never wait for the oil life meter to tell me. I'm old school and change my oil at 4000-5000 mile intervals.
If everyone did this there would be fewer complaints about engines sludging. Make sure to use full synthetic - spendy, but your engine will thank you.

May I ask you though how did the oil cap relate to your engine noise?
My working hypothesis is that a bypass valve with a weak spring allows momentary low oil pressure during some startup conditions. It would be a better theory if it was the ADBV. Perhaps the ADBV depends on a properly functioning bypass valve. I am doing an O&F change this morning, and will investigate further. As I say, all I know is I changed it and the noise went away.

I have a '92 C4 Corvette (w/50K) came factory with mobile one and still use it on it and a '08 F-150 (w/90K) and an old '89 Chevrolet 3500 Dually farm truck (w/150K) that I use to pull my tractor and gets it butt worked hard and none of these use oil at the rate my CTS does.
As I say, all engines use oil. Some more than others. Pretty sure those engines don't use as much oil controlled systems (especially the 4 camshaft timing adjusters) as the LY7. Nevertheless, there is a revised crank splash tray and valve cover gasket.

But again I thank you for your input and for the info on the oil cap and the air filter and housing. I will check those things ASAP in the morning.
I couldn't really tell the difference in checking the oil bypass valve, especially when I wasn't confident of my specs, and moving air and oil are different propositions. I am not normally a fan of throwing parts at a motor, but for $30 (or $5 if you just do the valve) I made an exception.

As far as the airbox goes, GM's procedure involves pulling it, removing the MAF sensor, taping off all the holes, and doing a smoke test.

You dealer should have all this information in the bulletion. Perhaps Katie could help out here.
 

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Hmm...not an auto mechanic/DIYer, I’d guess that a dirty or clogged air filter might restrict air flow, create low air pressure (partial vacuum) in the cylinder/combustion chamber, and, thus, pull oil thru/around the piston rings, thereby increasing oil consumption.

But...

Make sure that your air filter housing is not leaking. There is a bulletin and a procedure, but if the air filter is not changed right (and it doesn't matter who or where), it can leak and wear out rings.
...how does a leaking air filter housing "wear out rings?"

Anyone explain that one? Got a bulletin number, or cut-n-paste?

Thanks.
 

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From the CTS service manual... a document listing the most likely reasons for engine noise on start-up (but only lasting a few seconds):



From the CTS service manual... a document relating to oil consumption diagnosis:



Hi ktr-sb thanks for the info. :)
Yes, I do my own oil changes and never wait for the oil life meter to tell me. I'm old school and change my oil at 4000-5000 mile intervals. May I ask you though how did the oil cap relate to your engine noise? Just curious on that one.
I'll also check the air filter and housing and see how it looks and the sealing of it.
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^ Smokeys427, given that you carry out your own oil changes (using Mobile 1 as you stated), what brand/model of oil filter are you applying? In the first document I attached above it is advised that the correct type (GM-approved) oil filter is to be used, having an anti-drainback feature. Does the filter you apply have this feature? Also - what viscosity oil are you using?

Hmm...not an auto mechanic/DIYer, I’d guess that a dirty or clogged air filter might restrict air flow, create low air pressure (partial vacuum) in the cylinder/combustion chamber, and, thus, pull oil thru/around the piston rings, thereby increasing oil consumption.
But...
...how does a leaking air filter housing "wear out rings?"
Anyone explain that one? Got a bulletin number, or cut-n-paste?
Thanks.
^ 928S, a "leaking air filter housing" (i.e. a compromised air filter housing, in one way or another) could allow for some level of raw unfiltered air to bypass the air filter element and enter the engine's combustion chambers. Unfiltered air would cause a much greater level of wear to occur on piston rings due to higher/inordinate levels of abrasion (by way of dirt-loaded air).
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Wow, thanks guy's for all your input! :)
^ Smokeys427, given that you carry out your own oil changes (using Mobile 1 as you stated), what brand/model of oil filter are you applying? In the first document I attached above it is advised that the correct type (GM-approved) oil filter is to be used, having an anti-drainback feature. Does the filter you apply have this feature? Also - what viscosity oil are you using?
RAB, I use Mobile one oil and thinking maybe changing to Castroil synthetic Oil 5w-30 and see if it works out better. I have used it in the Corvette without any problems also. I also always use AC/Delco filters or Pureolator and at times Wix oil filters which are high quality. NEVER FRAM! had my oil changed once in a pinch when I had my then new '97 Z/28 Camaro LT1 and it started making an engine start-up sound and changed oil filters ASAP and found that they had used a cheapie oil filter with out the by pass. Also thanks for the info above

My working hypothesis is that a bypass valve with a weak spring allows momentary low oil pressure during some startup conditions. It would be a better theory if it was the ADBV. Perhaps the ADBV depends on a properly functioning bypass valve. I am doing an O&F change this morning, and will investigate further. As I say, all I know is I changed it and the noise went away.
ktr-sb, What do you mean by the ADVB? I'm guessing some kind of Valve Bypass correct? If so, which one are you talking about and where is it other than the oil bypass in the oil filter? That might be something I need to check into. My oil cap looks good and fits on snug also.
I did notice after a 70 mile trip yesterday and the car sat for about 30 minutes and cranking it up again it made the sound again but louder this time. It does not sound like lower main bearings at all though.
I do plan to take it back in on Wednesday and having the change the oil and do the consumption test so at least i can get a file started on this.

Thanks again for all the info and support you posters have given. I'm sure in time I'll get this problem nailed down one way or another
 

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ktr-sb, What do you mean by the ADVB? I'm guessing some kind of Valve Bypass correct? If so, which one are you talking about and where is it other than the oil bypass in the oil filter?
ADBV means anti-drainback valve. It keeps oil in the filter housing full of oil when the engine is off. In our vehicles, it has a spring-loaded stem that is depressed by the base of the installed oil filter cartridge.

Looking at the oil filter housing cap won't tell you anything. If you don't mind gambling $30.00, I would tell the dealer to replace the cap when they do the next oil change. It might have been a coincidence on mine, but it's still quiet.

And all due respect, but I have been using Fram filters for years on my LX5s, which are notoriously finicky motors. I have used the steel core Frams on the SRX without problem. The LY7 filter spins in the housing, and I suspect that the combination of not pre-lubricating the oil filter end seals and using plastic core filters is what has caused some to have collapsed cartridges.

But I'm no engineer.
 

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I have never read anything positive about Fram filters.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
OK, My CTS is scheduled to get the oil changed and a oil consumption test done on it along with them to hear the engine noise again. This way I'll get it documented and have a file started on the car with this problem.

I have never read anything positive about Fram filters.
Absolutely tinman and I agree. All one has to do is just do some quality reading on oil filterers and oil filter comparison's. OR, to see first hand for yourself (the best way), just get a Fram, a GM, a Pureolator, and a Wix gold oil filter. Cut them open and you will be astounded at the difference with the oil pleat count and the by-pass. The Fram has about half the filtering quality's that the latter filters do. I don't want to start an argument and I respect what anyone use's on their vehicle, but for me personally I just won't use a Fram. :)
 
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