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Discussion Starter #1
:bling: Bought 05 NAV/6DC and the BOSE Amp from a crashed CTS-V. I currently have the 2.8L base CTS without NAV or Bose. I have read the instructions for the base CTS to nav swap and then the instructions for getting the voice commands and audible directions.
I am wondering if I have to do exactly what the intructions say when it comes to and 05 to 05 swap or if there are any updates regarding not having to tap into the VSS or using the GPS from Onstar. Any help will be appreciated.
 

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Some members have reported that the VSS wire is already in the radio harness on the '05, even on non-nav cars. It will be easy to check. When you pull the radio, look for a wire in positon 7 on the C2 connector.

As far as GPS goes, the On-Star (VCIM) has it's own GPS but it's not linked to the Nav. The Nav has it's own built in. It only needs an antenna installed in the dash. It's very simple to do. The nav will function perfectly without the harness for the audible directions and voice commands. Now that I finally installed mine, I never use either. I actually find it annoying that my car talks to me, especially if I'm in a conversation with a passenger ("don't interrupt me!").

Switching out the base amp for the Bose amp will be a lot more challenging. If you didn't also have the harness ends cut off with the amp, it may be impossible. You can reuse the C3 connector as the Bose C2 (same part number) and re-pin all of the existing terminals, then add several wires for the missing functions (from the base amp). Locating a Bose C1 and C3 connector and terminals will be a challenge if you don't have the factory harness from the wreck. Also the Bose Subwoofer is different from the base model, and wired differently.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Odysses...:highfive: thanks for the quick response. I will look into the VSS already in the harness. I am assuming that this is already there since the instrument cluster on the base tracks the vehicle average speed etc. on the display when you scroll the information center. Was "Average Speed" always part of the information center?

I inspected my Bose amp and there are no wires coming off it it. There are 3 areas where you can plug in harnesses. It think Caddy may have gotten smart and made the harnesses plug and play rather than soldered to the Bose unit for the 05s. What do you think.
 

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I started looking in junkyards yesterday for the same thing with no luck . If you don't mind telling , "What did it cost you ?"
 

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Rich...got it for 900 bucks from a local salvage yard. Look around for threads on ebay..there have been a few postings on there.
 

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odysseus said:
Some members have reported that the VSS wire is already in the radio harness on the '05, even on non-nav cars. It will be easy to check. When you pull the radio, look for a wire in positon 7 on the C2 connector.

As far as GPS goes, the On-Star (VCIM) has it's own GPS but it's not linked to the Nav. The Nav has it's own built in. It only needs an antenna installed in the dash. It's very simple to do. The nav will function perfectly without the harness for the audible directions and voice commands. Now that I finally installed mine, I never use either. I actually find it annoying that my car talks to me, especially if I'm in a conversation with a passenger ("don't interrupt me!").

Switching out the base amp for the Bose amp will be a lot more challenging. If you didn't also have the harness ends cut off with the amp, it may be impossible. You can reuse the C3 connector as the Bose C2 (same part number) and re-pin all of the existing terminals, then add several wires for the missing functions (from the base amp). Locating a Bose C1 and C3 connector and terminals will be a challenge if you don't have the factory harness from the wreck. Also the Bose Subwoofer is different from the base model, and wired differently.
Odyssses...I guess this is a stupid question but I dont want to crack my air vents. What kind of pressure does it take to pry them out?:worship:
 

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Rage,

All the amps (Bose and Base) have connectors (C1, C2 and C3) on the bottom, but they're different among the two. You'll have a bear of a time locating them from vendors (get them cut off the donor car if you can) and they usually have minimum purchase requirements. Theres nothing like spending $100 for way more than the two $0.50 connectors that you need.

See the Phase II install on CadillacFAQ.com for pictures of the Bose amp unmounted. You'll have to pull terminals from the base amp (C3) and repin them to the Bose C2 pinout (reusing the same connector). You'll need two new connectors and terminals to pin out C1 and C3 on the Bose, as they're different from the Base amp. You'll likely need a small tool to depress the tiny clip on each terminal, and they slide right out. On other projects, a straighted paperclip works. Mind you, I've never done the Base to Bose swap . . . I've only studied the schematics and connector part numbers and pinouts (also on the FAQ).

As far as the air vent above the radio, just make sure you use a thin putty knife (2" wide), and NOT a screwdriver. You'll have to work it so the entire 2" width is between the vent and the dash on one side (try the passenger side first). Once it's in about a quarter inch, gently pry the side up. It will 'pop' when the clips release. Then work your way to the top and left side. Fold it up (there is a wire harness attached the the hazard button) and lay it on top of the dash.

After you remove the center screw in the middle of the ash tray, you pry out the ashtray/Heater control unit in the same manner. This will expose two bolts on top and two on the bottom of the radio head unit. Once you unscrew those, the radio slides straight out (no prying needed). Disconnect the connectors from the back before you remove it all the way.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
odysseus said:
Rage,

All the amps (Bose and Base) have connectors (C1, C2 and C3) on the bottom, but they're different among the two. You'll have a bear of a time locating them from vendors (get them cut off the donor car if you can) and they usually have minimum purchase requirements. Theres nothing like spending $100 for way more than the two $0.50 connectors that you need.

See the Phase II install on CadillacFAQ.com for pictures of the Bose amp unmounted. You'll have to pull terminals from the base amp (C3) and repin them to the Bose C2 pinout (reusing the same connector). You'll need two new connectors and terminals to pin out C1 and C3 on the Bose, as they're different from the Base amp. You'll likely need a small tool to depress the tiny clip on each terminal, and they slide right out. On other projects, a straighted paperclip works. Mind you, I've never done the Base to Bose swap . . . I've only studied the schematics and connector part numbers and pinouts (also on the FAQ).

As far as the air vent above the radio, just make sure you use a thin putty knife (2" wide), and NOT a screwdriver. You'll have to work it so the entire 2" width is between the vent and the dash on one side (try the passenger side first). Once it's in about a quarter inch, gently pry the side up. It will 'pop' when the clips release. Then work your way to the top and left side. Fold it up (there is a wire harness attached the the hazard button) and lay it on top of the dash.

After you remove the center screw in the middle of the ash tray, you pry out the ashtray/Heater control unit in the same manner. This will expose two bolts on top and two on the bottom of the radio head unit. Once you unscrew those, the radio slides straight out (no prying needed). Disconnect the connectors from the back before you remove it all the way.
Odysses..thanks of the quick feedback. Stayed up last night till 2:30a and got the nav swapped. Went in this afternoon for lunch and got the theft lock changed. I still have to install the GPS antenna and it will be delivered on Wednesday so I will have to do another "install" routine again. I was just excited to get this thing going...I could not wait.
I guess I have the standards problems that most people have had. I have questions about the following:

1. How can I change the initial scree name? It shows the name of the person who previously owned it and its irritating.

2. Can I program each button on the right of the nav for a certain function as I could the 4 (2 left 2 right) on the base?

3. I guess I must have read into Miscreant's instructions a little too much. I popped out the complete ashtray to get to the screw and now I cant get it back on. I guess I am screwed.

Let me know what you think.
 

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Answers are:

1) Yes it can be done, but my son did mine for me, so I don't recall the exact sequence. Hit the main menu button and look for 'setup' or something like that. Reed has the Nav manual on the FAQ. You may need to read up on it.

http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/answers/pdf/2k04cts_nav.pdf

2) Yes you can program the steering wheel buttons. I have mine for TCS, channel up, channel down, and something I forgot for the last one. I think it's the "Main" button, then go to "Setup", then something like "Prog SWC" (steering wheel controls). Again, RTFM is probably better than anything I can explain. :D

3) Yikes. It may be much easier to pull the ashtray/climate control out, disconnect the harnessing, and try to get the ashtray door back on, on a bench or the kitchen table. Otherwise, they do come up on EBay occassionally for under $50.

As for the GPS antenna, installing it in the dash is easy, but you'll have to pull out the radio to plug it in, after you fish the wire down through the dash.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Alright....after 2 weeks of waiting I got the NAV antenna from GMpartsdirect.com. I have 4 questions.

When I opened the box the antenna was about 1" square mounted with 2 screws on a plate that was 3"x4" with two holes. I am assuming that there is a place that is standard in the car for mounting the antenna and all I have to do is bolt this plate on to those standard holes and attach the wire to the NAV system. The problem is I dont know where the standard mounting area for the antenna is. Can anyone help with this?

When I went to the dealer to order this part the person at the computer pulled up a schematic of the various parts and it seemed like the antenna was mounted behind the engine and under the hood. I thought of this as weird as this would be a high heat area. Maybe its just behind the engine in the car cabin where it is protected by insulation. Does anyone know of this place? Is this the same as the one that is in the instructions?

Can someone help me with some more detailed information about the prying open of the dash cover for installing this antenna? I am a little confused/sketchy about the directions in the installtion guide. Where do I find the clips to pry open the dash cover?

Last part...is there anyone that can confirm that all '05 CTS' have the VSS wire already with the standard system harness?
 

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rageCTS said:
is there anyone that can confirm that all '05 CTS' have the VSS wire already with the standard system harness?
My 05 did not have the wire in the harness. I am also in the same boat as you in that I have a Bose Amp sitting here for a few months now because I was not able to find all the correct parts and adapters to swap it out. You will also need a Bose subwoofer to do the swap since the non-Bose is a dual voice coil subwoofer and the Bose is a single.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
:thepan: <--- Bose Engineers
:thepan: GM Engineers

:want: BOSE, GM and Navtec engineers at work

Why couldnt they commonize all the harnessing so that the base and bose amp could be swapped. That way the eletronics and the speakers are what is different.

Oh well. I will check for the brown wire for the VSS which I hope is there and wait for someone to answer my other 3 questions.
 

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rageCTS said:
Alright....after 2 weeks of waiting I got the NAV antenna from GMpartsdirect.com. I have 4 questions.

When I opened the box the antenna was about 1" square mounted with 2 screws on a plate that was 3"x4" with two holes. I am assuming that there is a place that is standard in the car for mounting the antenna and all I have to do is bolt this plate on to those standard holes and attach the wire to the NAV system. The problem is I dont know where the standard mounting area for the antenna is. Can anyone help with this?

When I went to the dealer to order this part the person at the computer pulled up a schematic of the various parts and it seemed like the antenna was mounted behind the engine and under the hood. I thought of this as weird as this would be a high heat area. Maybe its just behind the engine in the car cabin where it is protected by insulation. Does anyone know of this place? Is this the same as the one that is in the instructions?

Can someone help me with some more detailed information about the prying open of the dash cover for installing this antenna? I am a little confused/sketchy about the directions in the installtion guide. Where do I find the clips to pry open the dash cover?

Last part...is there anyone that can confirm that all '05 CTS' have the VSS wire already with the standard system harness?
:hmm: Hi, I can help with the first three questions, can't confirm the VSS wire question. However, check Miscreant's write-up for the DVD NAV swap. Check the eight pin yellow electrical connector (that connects to the back of the NAV) and see if the pin is already in place (#7). Should be easy enough to check. If there is a pin in position #7, it's already wired. If no pin is in position #7, you'll need to remove the speedometer cluster and tap into the VSS wire per Miscreant's detailed instructions. Read his instructions several times, take your time, don't break you CTS.

The GPS antenna comes with the metal mounting base attached. I modified the base (cut to fit the space I used). You'll want the metal base, it should help with GPS reception. Tomm used the center speaker position at the center top of the dash. I have the Bose system. I removed the center speaker and installed the GPS antenna in that position. I relocated the small Bose speaker forward. I originally used the mounting location in Micreant's write-up but the reception was not that good. The location that Tomm used is excellent and again, reception is great. Last question, to mount the GPS antenna, you need to pry open and remove the top portion of the dash. Start with the left or right side, use a small flat tip screwdriver to pop it up. Once the end pops up, used your hand to continue to pop the fasteners up and remove the top portion. You'll have a electrical connector on the right side. It's best to remove the connector and completely remove the top portion of the dash. I hope this helps. Good luck!
 

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Rage, First, to pry the dash cover up is easy. Again, DON'T use a screwdriver, but rather a 2" wide putty knife (plastic preferably). The area closest to the windshield has a cover the full width of the dash, and about 8 inches wide. Start on one end and simply push the putty knife straight into the crack, then pry up. It will pop the first clip. Work your way to the other side to loosen the other 5 or so clips. The antenna mounts on any flat spot facing up. There is a pic on the FAQ that shows this, looking through the windshield. Just use double sided tape, and fish the wire down past the vents to the radio. I had to use a coat hanger wire to fish it through.
To check for the VSS wire, when you pull the Nav, simply see if there's a wire plugged into pin 7 of the C2 connector (the top one of the two brown ones that are linked together). If it's not empty, the VSS is pre-installed.
You're a very brave soul to attempt a base to Bose amp conversion. If you find the correct harnessing and get it finished, PM me and I'll get the correct audible direction and voice command harnessing to you.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
odysseus said:
Rage, First, to pry the dash cover up is easy. Again, DON'T use a screwdriver, but rather a 2" wide putty knife (plastic preferably). The area closest to the windshield has a cover the full width of the dash, and about 8 inches wide. Start on one end and simply push the putty knife straight into the crack, then pry up. It will pop the first clip. Work your way to the other side to loosen the other 5 or so clips. The antenna mounts on any flat spot facing up. There is a pic on the FAQ that shows this, looking through the windshield. Just use double sided tape, and fish the wire down past the vents to the radio. I had to use a coat hanger wire to fish it through. To check for the VSS wire, when you pull the Nav, simply see if there's a wire plugged into pin 7 of the C2 connector (the top one of the two brown ones that are linked together). If it's not empty, the VSS is pre-installed. You're a very brave soul to attempt a base to Bose amp conversion. If you find the correct harnessing and get it finished, PM me and I'll get the correct audible direction and voice command harnessing to you.
Thanks Odysses and -1- ...the two of you are wonderful help and assets to this forum. You guys are :2thumbs: and worthy of :worship: .

I should have checked for the VSS wire the first time I got the system in. :rant2: .

Odysses...:hmm: so if I understand what you are saying...the clips that hold the dash in place are by the windsheild and that when I pry them open the dash will lift out altogether? Sorry dumb questions...just want to be safe rather than sorry. This is my first time doing this kind of work but I am happy doing it myself and proud. Everytime I do it I get more confident.

By the way...I got the ashtray (read above post) in without the spring by a push into the compartment. The problem is that it wont lock but it does not look like it was broken :)
 

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You don't need to remove the entire dash, only the top forward 8 inches (closest to the windshield), which is a snap in plastic cover that goes the full width of the top of the dash. If you look, you'll see it (it's removed in Miscreants pic that I linked to above). After you pop all of the clips, it comes right out. You'll need to disconnect the daylight sensor that dims your headlights when it's dark, in the middle of it. After you do it once, you'll see how easy it is.
 

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rageCTS said:
By the way...I got the ashtray (read above post) in without the spring by a push into the compartment. The problem is that it wont lock but it does not look like it was broken :)
Ahhh, The cigarette lighter spring. I remember it well as I spent almost 1 1/2 hours trying to put it back together. The good news is that its fairly easy if you line it up correctly and then use a small flat head screw driver to hold the spring in place as you pop it back in.

I cant remember it in detail because it was months ago but if you take pictures of the 3 pieces I am sure I will be able to tell you exactly how I did it. I know another forum member that did the same thing and he gave up and bougt a new assembled one. Its like a little puzzle and if you look at the pieces you will figure it out.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
odysseus said:
You don't need to remove the entire dash, only the top forward 8 inches (closest to the windshield), which is a snap in plastic cover that goes the full width of the top of the dash. If you look, you'll see it (it's removed in Miscreants pic that I linked to above). After you pop all of the clips, it comes right out. You'll need to disconnect the daylight sensor that dims your headlights when it's dark, in the middle of it. After you do it once, you'll see how easy it is.
Alright,...have the antenna installed.
Didnt have the VSS wire built in..just my kind of luck and now I am having problems getting the cluster out. I got the two bolts at the bottom behind the filler panel out and tried to pry the cluster off by prying between the top of the cluster upper dash but I cant get the cluster to pop. Is there something that I am missing? There are two more bolts that are going through a casting ...one each on the left and the right of the steering...are these to be removed too?
 

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rageCTS said:
Alright,...have the antenna installed.
Didnt have the VSS wire built in..just my kind of luck and now I am having problems getting the cluster out. I got the two bolts at the bottom behind the filler panel out and tried to pry the cluster off by prying between the top of the cluster upper dash but I cant get the cluster to pop. Is there something that I am missing? There are two more bolts that are going through a casting ...one each on the left and the right of the steering...are these to be removed too?
:hmm: Make sure you're reading Miscreant's "how to" remove the gauge cluster correctly. It's been several months since I did it. Take it step by step. It works.
 

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Only two bolts on the bottom. You need to use your 2" plastic putty knife (so as not to scratch or bend anything) to insert beween the top of the IP and the dash. Pry there, and it will pop the dash loose from the IP about a 1/4", to allow you to pull it out. There is a lever on the connector used to disconnect it from the IP. Put the IP aside so you can dig through the wire mess to find the correct wire. Be aware there are several that look alike (brown, brown with white stripe, greyish, etc). They are tiny (26 gauge?), so be careful not to cut it when you're splicing it.

PM, me if you need the wire, splice, and correct terminal (I had a minimum buy of 100). Don't waste your money locating a VW reverse harness, if you haven't already.
 
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