[Devil_concours]

If Cadillac's intended target audience is potential M5 buyers, then it needs a minimum of 394HP.

ctsv's target audience is potential m3 buyers
stsv's job is to get the m5 buyers

 

[Brett]

ctsv's target audience is potential m3 buyers
stsv's job is to get the m5 buyers

here is one of the problems of comparing BMW and cadillac, they just compare strangely...the CTS may price around the 3-series but it is the size of the 5-series so the CTS-v would better compete against M5...the M3 better competes with the corvette...and before you guys jump on me about the corvette being the great american sports car check the stats the M3 and corvette are very comparable...of course the Corvette is better...the STS should really be taking a shot at the S-class and 7-Series

 

[Devil_concours]

here is one of the problems of comparing BMW and cadillac, they just compare strangely...the CTS may price around the 3-series but it is the size of the 5-series so the CTS-v would better compete against M5...the M3 better competes with the corvette...and before you guys jump on me about the corvette being the great american sports car check the stats the M3 and corvette are very comparable...of course the Corvette is better...the STS should really be taking a shot at the S-class and 7-Series

here is how this should be compared
cts technically is a midsize sedan. However, cadillac uses cts as a direct competition to the 3 series (handling capability targeted directly for the 3 series). For the size most bmw is small for the class that it's competiting in.

CTS as an entry level luxury car competes directly with 3 series(bmw's entry level car). STS competes directly with 5 series as midsize luxury car and dts comeptes directly with 7 series as the full szie luxury.

This doesn't just apply to bmw v cadillac it's more like bmw vs all.

 

[Brett]

like i said, they dont really compare all that well, by saying the DTS competes with S and 7 you are basically saying Cadillac does not compete with S and 7...i like the DTS but they are nowhere close to those cars

 

[Brett]

im not disagreeing with you about CTS and 3-series, i just dont think that cadillac and BMW compare all that well

3-series/CTS
M3/Corvette
5-series/sts
M5/CTS-V?
7-series/no real competitor

i guess thats how i see it...just one mans opinion...but i know im right dammit

 

[Devil_concours]

like i said, they dont really compare all that well, by saying the DTS competes with S and 7 you are basically saying Cadillac does not compete with S and 7...i like the DTS but they are nowhere close to those cars

they are in the same class. Only thing that sets german counterparts apart from our deville is the price. That's why cadillac needs to step up and get into ultra luxury with sixteen concept and bring cadillac brand name up one level and improve in terms of quality in every model.

 

[Devil_concours]

im not disagreeing with you about CTS and 3-series, i just dont think that cadillac and BMW compare all that well

3-series/CTS
M3/Corvette
5-series/sts
M5/CTS-V?
7-series/no real competitor

i guess thats how i see it...just one mans opinion...but i know im right dammit

m3's only competition is audi s4/rs4.

m3 wasn't meant to be a sports car.

 

[Brett]

"m3 wasn't meant to be a sports car"

maybe not but when it came out all the mags did head to head with vette and M3 and it won car and drivers best handling car in the world title a few years ago...it may not be meant to be an american sports car but it was meant to be a BMW sports car

 

[Devil_concours]

"m3 wasn't meant to be a sports car"

maybe not but when it came out all the mags did head to head with vette and M3 and it won car and drivers best handling car in the world title a few years ago...it may not be meant to be an american sports car but it was meant to be a BMW sports car

and this same magazine declare m3 as the winner because it had backseats when vette killed both m3 and boxster in every category of test that they performed.
M3 gets compare to vette and boxster because of its capabilities. It's not a sports car it wasn't meant to be. It's just that m3 can beat most of sports cars that are out in the market currently

 

[Brett]

and this same magazine declare m3 as the winner because it had backseats when vette killed both m3 and boxster in every category of test that they performed.
M3 gets compare to vette and boxster because of its capabilities. It's not a sports car it wasn't meant to be. It's just that m3 can beat most of sports cars that are out in the market currently

i think it actually won because car and driver cant have a bmw lose anything...but we're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one, if the M3 is not a sports car i dont know what is...BMW's site has the Vette as the first comparison car in the dropdown menu for "M3 Competitors"...the car has an optional trans that is essentially the gearbox F1 uses...im not sure what your criteria is for something being a sports car but the 911 has a back seat as well

 

[HotRodSaint]

i think it actually won because car and driver cant have a bmw lose anything...but we're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one, if the M3 is not a sports car i dont know what is...BMW's site has the Vette as the first comparison car in the dropdown menu for "M3 Competitors"...the car has an optional trans that is essentially the gearbox F1 uses...im not sure what your criteria is for something being a sports car but the 911 has a back seat as well

Traditional lines are certainly getting blurred.

(Quick, anyone know why that new VW isn't really a Phaeton?)

I think it's a stretch to call the M3 a sports car. It is certainly a Sports Coupe.

The 911 rear seat is more like a jump seat. And no one would consider it a 2+2.

There is no Coupe's (or Sedans) that can compete with the M3. Unless you want to include the Mustang Cobra. So they have to go up against all the other 'driver' oriented car's.

 

[Devil_concours]

Traditional lines are certainly getting blurred.

(Quick, anyone know why that new VW isn't really a Phaeton?)

I think it's a stretch to call the M3 a sports car. It is certainly a Sports Coupe.

The 911 rear seat is more like a jump seat. And no one would consider it a 2+2.

There is no Coupe's (or Sedans) that can compete with the M3. Unless you want to include the Mustang Cobra. So they have to go up against all the other 'driver' oriented car's.

i guess you missed my post about audi rs4. Maybe not in here in us but m3 does have a direct competitor in europe.

 

[Nagash01WS6]

i really dont want to go off on a tangent so ill keep this short...why does pontiac think it can sell the GTO when it couldnt sell the Firebird..arent these cars very similar.

Heh... Same drivetrain... and thats about it.

Couldnt sell the firebird???

Maybe if they actually advertised it they would have sold.

 

[Devil_concours]

Heh... Same drivetrain... and thats about it.

Couldnt sell the firebird???

Maybe if they actually advertised it they would have sold.

i don't think advertisement was an issue because mustang wasn't advertised just as much as the firebird. It just lost market share and gm made a decision as a business/company. Just as Australians have a different taste in cars as us, new GTO is going to be a different dog than firebird.

 

[peccles]

what i'm saying is that gas guzzling tax wouldn't apply to either ls6 or ls1

The way the gas guzzler is avoided in the
Corvettes is via a skip shift mechanism in the 6
speed manual. Below 2000 RPMs, you shift
from 1st to 4th. The stick has a tall 6th gear
for low RPM high mileage highway cruising.

 

[peccles]

If Cadillac's intended target audience is potential M5 buyers, then it needs a minimum of 394HP.

Doesn't the M5 weigh almost 500lbs more than
a CTS? I guess HP numbers are used like
GHz numbers for computers. People like
one easy number to compare things when
actually it does not tell the whole story.

 

[HotRodSaint]

I guess HP numbers are used like
GHz numbers for computers. People like
one easy number to compare things when
actually it does not tell the whole story.

First, I would assume that stuffing a V8 into a 6 cylinder car, will increase it's weight. It certainly won't make it lighter.

Second, until we have that V8 car that has been properly weighed in and tested in the 0-60, 1/4 mile and slalom, then HP is about all we can focus on right now.

Welcome to the board. Please try not to start any flame war's in this section. And certainly not with me.

 

[GordonB]

To all,
Her is the link to todya's Detroit News and a complete write-up about the new 3.6L V-6 engine. It seems to be destined for many uses incl. the CTS:

http://www.detnews.com/2003/insiders/0304/01/insider-124694.htm

Enjoy. This has to suffice until an honest to goodness V-8 is available in late of this year.

GordonB

 

[b4z]

This is easier:
http://www.detnews.com/2003/insiders/0304/01/insider-124694.htm

 

[Chuck C]

from article:

a 370 hp ......V6??? turbo ? or does the family include V8s??