ELR owners opinion (wanted) on history of this car
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Cadillac ELR Forum (2014-2016) Discussion, ELR owners opinion (wanted) on history of this car in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; I read that GM wants to make major inroads on selling and making more electric cars for the future. That's ...
  1. #1
    Deafsoundguy's Avatar
    Deafsoundguy is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    ELR owners opinion (wanted) on history of this car

    I read that GM wants to make major inroads on selling and making more electric cars for the future. That's great - more power to them!

    As ELR owners we all know the beat and tired story of they were too expensive when they hit the market. At least in the perception of some. If it were a Jag, Porsche, etc electric car at the price it came out with no one would have questioned it's price. We all know that it's a great looking car. It looks like a Cadillac as it should versus what BMW did with the i3, which was make them look completely different than all other BMWs. And BMW took major flack from BMW fanboys because it didn't look BMW "traditional". What happened there though was that opened the door to people like me who wouldn't have bought a BMW in the first place and welcomed something new and electric with a different styling - and they got a lot more new buyers because of that... but that's a different story.

    So as I ponder the next generation of electric cars from Cadillac I wonder what would have happened if there would have been a certain "something" that would have taken the scolding away from the onset. History makes it sound like it's all about price. Personally I think that it could have been just one or 2 things and the price would have been acceptable especially with the performance upgrades of the 2016 like upgraded suspension, CUE improvements, bigger electric motors, etc. I wonder what would have been the story if the ELR from the onset would have had what it took to get it down to a much speedier acceleration let's say 0-60 in 5.5?

    It's obvious that the body style and interior quality were great. Wheels were 20" and tires looked like tires should and not bicycle tires on an i3 (okay slightly exaggerated...) There's tons of nice little goodies to appreciate... what do you guys think? Do you think if the car would have had a slightly bigger battery and respectable 0-60 times that it would have made the difference? It almost seems like just the mention that the technology derives from the Volt doomed it to peoples perception that it should be priced like a Volt with lipstick and bigger wheels...

    So what do you think? O-60 times, or was it range and the mention of Voltec powertrain? What would it have needed? Personally I don't think range would have been nearly as important as acceleration followed by price but I dunno. One thing I DO know is that by following the owners on the Jag forums, that guys just can't get enough extra testosterone building acceleration in their cars. It seems to be way more important to most people than it does me. I'm totally happy with the power of my '16 ELR but I know a lot of guys that just need more.

    Curious for your opinions . Maybe GM can learn from it's forums. I sure hope for a few things - 1, that future Cadillacs look like Cadillacs and don't start the Asian styling like they did with the Bolt which went from cool to rice grinder in appearance from the concept. 2: They keep the regen paddle because it rocks and rocks hard. 3: They keep the vertical thin, long LED lights in the front because it looks cool and like no other car, and when you see it coming at you, you KNOW it's a modern Cad coming at you. Has to stay as long as possible like our ELRs

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  3. #2
    hightech-guy is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: ELR owners opinion (wanted) on history of this car

    The main reason has always been price. GM tried to go against the Telsa Model S price point, but with less performance, space, and features. Plus it is an EREV hybrid vs. BEV electric. The 2016 brought many welcome enhancements (including the price reduction), but they were not promoted, and the damage was already done. And yes, many viewed it as just an expensive Volt.

    By design it was also relegated to being a niche vehicle from the get go - being a great looking coupe, but with a very cramped back seat based on implementation. It wasn't going to be a high runner like a Camry or SUV given that, even if price parity existed. The CT6 PHEV could have been that vehicle, but again mile high price, super limited availability, and the current consumer trend for crossovers and SUVs.

    Present ELR concern today is its unique parts, and even more so with the Volt's demise. GM certified warranty should be a minimum requirement for someone looking to pick up one of these today. And even with that, parts availability is not assured as has happened historically even with higher run rate vehicles like the XLR.

    All here recognize that the car itself is great. There are not many ELR (or Volt) owners who don't love their cars.

    Future Cadillac EV landscape and survival will depend on how they go head to head with equivalent EVs at the time. There will be many more choices when they finally start coming out with them. They'll need a home run in looks, price, performance, features, and utility to avoid a low run rate. I'm rooting for them. Those manufacturers who can optimize their battery costs will be the winners in the new EV world.

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    m_eaton53 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: ELR owners opinion (wanted) on history of this car

    They screwed up royally when they introduced the Volt first. That is the gist of the entire ELR pricing issue and they did it to themselves.

    If the ELR had come out in 2010 they would've beaten everyone else to market.
    The competition was the Prius. Well, the Prius is an ugly turd of a car and the Tesla Model S was still years out.
    IMO, they could've gotten $75K for the ELR because there was nothing on the market to set the price that it could command.

    Once there were $30K-something Volts, it had no chance. They were not going to get $75K for "A good looking Volt with a nice interior."
    My understanding was this price was something that GM Chairman/CEO "Coke Can" Dan Akerson pulled out of his rear end.

    He had decided that GM was gonna make a profit on the ELR and that was it. As God was his witness, he thought turkeys could fly.
    It was already dead when the Saks went on sale and proved what everyone but Dan already knew when only 38 were sold.

    What I didn't get is why they built so many even after they started piling up at the dealers. The whole thing made no sense at all.
    But the good news is there are cheap ELRs today because they screwed up everything but the car itself.

    It will be interesting to see what happens in the future.
    IMO, Tesla will go bankrupt when the next big recession hits in a few years and outside funding dries up.
    They're already in big trouble. Interest in them has waned considerably since they began losing their tax credits.

    The Model 3 has cannibalized sales of the S & X. The Porsche Taycan will take care of what little they had left.
    The remaining interest in the Model 3 is for the Bolt-priced version. A Bolt priced Model 3 is a money pit for a company that has little cash to spare.
    Toyota is doing almost nothing on the EV front. It makes me think that they're just waiting to buy what's left of Tesla after the crash n burn.

    GM is too slow to get products released. IMO, they'll get beaten to the punch again, this time by VW who is going in very hard.

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    Deafsoundguy's Avatar
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    Re: ELR owners opinion (wanted) on history of this car

    I totally agree with you hightech-guy except for the cramped back seat part - my wife can fit back there and said it's just fine to sit back there totally comfortable - unlike my XK which you'd have to be less than 10 yrs old to say that. At least shorter people CAN sit back there. I've noticed some new very pricey cars like the BMW X6 that you'd have to be the headless horseman to fit in the rear! Pic included! Yet ELRs get the flack... The trunk while small, is twice as big as a Ford Thunderbird, but ELRs got the flack not Thunderbirds - weird. It seems like the first pricing just amplified every complaint that someone could muster up...

    Driving an electric car now for 5 years, I rarely go over 40 miles, sometimes 50, hardly ever over that, and I live where I need to drive a distance for things now, rather than the cushy inner city neighborhood where I used to live (total clusterbang now) that had everything with 2 miles. Hate density now....ugh

    Funny that I just haven't heard anyone saying "I just have to have X-amount of miles to buy this car". I think anything over 40 is acceptable for the real world except for of course DD who have long commutes. I would really love to know just how many Tesla drivers bought their cars for range alone, rather than the acceleration or "hey I'm goin green!" or looks. I'd be very curious to know if a Tesla just got 60 miles let's say, how many would they sell? I bet that if it was still just as fast they'd still sell a lot of them for the looks and status symbol goin' green thing. The interiors aren't anything special, at least to me - I sat in one and wasn't impressed.

    I still think that if an ELR was fast from the get-go (as in when it came out), 5.5 or under, hopefully 5 second 0-60 times or under, it would have been a different story, especially with the 2016 pricing. I know too many guys that think a car is all about speed, or it's perceived sexy looks and KNOWING it can move is an extension of their manparts .

    If I was on the engineering team, and especially knowing that I'm going up against road ripping Teslas, I would have engineered the car battery system as 2 parts. I would have put a few more batteries in there to dedicate to that extra power it needs for that extra quick takeoff. A high current parallel battery system that then allows the regen to fill the high current depleted batteries first, then main battery pack second. In the real world of stoplights, how often could someone use the Tesla takeoff? Just knowing it's there and the instant passing power that needs a few seconds how much dedicated battery could it need? I dunno, seems like it could be done, it's all about current and how much you can get.

    As someone pointed out, the fact the car is rare and so seldomly seen makes demand low because there's so many people who know nothing about this car and makes lovely prices for us used car deal guys! In my neighborhood only my Jag service manager neighbor knew of it's existence... none of my other neighbors or friends had even heard of an ELR - Great work GM! I also would love to have been in the marketing dept... GM needs someone that actually drives their cars and maintains a good relationship on their car forums to hear what their buyers are saying. Actually, all manufacturers need that...

    X6 rear headroom....what the...Ichabod Crane BMW.jpeg

  6. #5
    ccclarke's Avatar
    ccclarke is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: ELR owners opinion (wanted) on history of this car

    GM lost money on every new ELR sold and without profitability, no model will last long. While I was interested in the styling, the performance, content, (no HUD, not enough storage, cramped rear seating) and price turned me away immediately after a test drive. Who wants to pay $75k for a vehicle that will be worth half in less than four years? Used, they're a better deal, but as mentioned above, parts availability is going to get real ugly real fast when the warranties for the 2016's expire. That was a big factor in selling my XLR.

    Looks aren't enough, and gas prices that were supposed to drive the buying public toward EVs haven't materialized yet.

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    m_eaton53 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: ELR owners opinion (wanted) on history of this car

    Quote Originally Posted by ccclarke View Post
    Who wants to pay $75k for a vehicle that will be worth half in less than four years?
    Heck, no one would buy an expensive luxury car if depreciation mattered. Actually most people don't buy them. They get leased.
    Before we bought my wife's XTS Platinum (which lost $40K off of its $67K MSRP), we looked at a Mercedes CLS400.
    It had lost nearly as much as the XTS, but did it even faster... it was one year newer with 10K less miles.

    The way to go with all of these cars is to get them half off when they're at least 3 or 4 years old with 20K to 30K miles.

    parts availability is going to get real ugly real fast
    Owning an orphan car is definitely not like owning a regular car.
    I've got many years of experience with orphans, so they don't scare me too much.
    I'll probably be looking to get in when people with less tolerance for such things get nervous and are looking to get out.

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    Re: ELR owners opinion (wanted) on history of this car

    Quote Originally Posted by m_eaton53 View Post
    Heck, no one would buy an expensive luxury car if depreciation mattered. Actually most people don't buy them. They get leased.
    Totally agree.... I like a good deal like the next guy but sometimes you just WANT something. We've bought all our sub $50k cars brand new because we just like the piece of mind of a new car and a big warranty - depreciation didn't matter. Anything over that, with the exception of my wife's latest car, we waited until they came in at ELR deal levels. With my wife's FPace-S, I felt like I was saving money. She doesn't ask for much except a nice car and dinner out once or twice a week. But my God she'd complain about EVERY car within 2 years... ARGH! Too big (Enclave), Not cool enough (Mountaineer), not enough soul (Acura RL), Just not sporty enough (SRX), Too lumbering and heavy steering with stupid things all over the car (Acura 2008 MDX), mechanical defect (Nikasil engine on 2000 Jag VDP) or flat out lemon (Dodge Durango). Yeah...lot of cars...and that's just some of them - finally threw in the towel and just decided I'd do whatever it takes to get her to keep a car longer than 2 or 3 years and actually save money that way! Plan has so far worked, she loves her FPace and babies it like no other car, perfect size, fast as $H*t and looks great from all angles. In all, like m_eaton says depreciation meant nothing to us or anyone who buys a car along the lines of a Continental GT - my God they drop $80k in a few years... and the people who buy them don't care because they have the money to keep doing that - must be nice.

    My wife would always complain about something if she has to go in my car.. but with the ELR she just can't find a reason to complain yet - it's nicer than her FPace inside and a great looking car. I can tell she's trying to come up with the next reason to diss my lovely car but so far so good....

  9. #8
    m_eaton53 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: ELR owners opinion (wanted) on history of this car

    Quote Originally Posted by Deafsoundguy View Post
    My wife would always complain about something if she has to go in my car.. but with the ELR she just can't find a reason to complain yet - it's nicer than her FPace inside and a great looking car. I can tell she's trying to come up with the next reason to diss my lovely car but so far so good....
    If she rode in the Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder I traded in on my wife's XTS, she'd really have something to complain about.
    Let's just say that the Cruze Diesel is a very significant upgrade...

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