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Carfax cost me $5,000 - I will never buy a Cadillac again because dealer doesent care

16K views 53 replies 14 participants last post by  Byrdman 
#1 ·
I have been a faithful Cadillac owner (myself and my wife longtime cadillac owners) for a very long time up until now.

Just recently I tried to trade in my 2009 Escalade ESV for a 2015 certified used Escalade ESV. When the dealer ran the
carfax on my trade in, it showed that the 2009 I purchased 5 years ago was in a serious accident with airbag deployment
and structural damage. I was never informed about this when I purchased this 2009 Escalade 5 years ago, and I probably
would NOT have purchased this if I knew about this.

This accident was reported to Carfax 13 MONTHS after the accident happened. During this 13 months this Escalade was listed
for sale at Brogan Cadillac in Totowa, NJ and purchased by me a short time later. Even that little "Carfox" character is shown on
the accident notification saying "This car may not be safe anymore and needs to be inspected by a trained professional"

When I notified Brogan Cadillac that they sold me a car that was in a major accident, they said that the cafax was clean when they
obtained the car and that its not their problem.

So long story short, I am scammed out $5,000. The dealer I tried to trade in this 2009 Escalade for a 2015 Escalade they had for
sale told me that they can not give me the KBB trade in value because of this serious accident and only gave me $7k for my trade
instead of $12k that KBB said my trade in was worth. I understand the dealers claim about the lower value because of this.

Because of this myself and my wife will NEVER purchase another car from Cadillac ever again. My wifes lease on her XT5 is up
in about 15 months and we will never go back to a cadillac ever again.
 
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#3 · (Edited)
No, another Cadillac dealer nearby in Mahwah, NJ (Cadillac of Mahwah) said that Brogan Cadillac should have seen this damage when they inspected this
vehicle and make it known that this car was in a major accident. Is it possible that this pre-sale inspection was not done? Who knows. Also, Brogan Cadillac
should go after the person who traded this car in with legal action because every time someone trades in a car, they are required to sign a form saying that the
car was never in a serious accident, and that the odometer was not rolled back, in a flood, etc, etc.

Not to mention, Brogan Cadillac of Totowa shrugged me and my wife (longtime Cadillac owners) off and didnt give one care.
 
#4 ·
Regardless, CARFaX is a voluntary reporting site. It should be used for only the most basic reference. It's entirely possible that the selling dealer never knew of the accident, given the report timing.

You are an unwitting victim of "Honey, I smashed the front end pretty bad! Cooter and BillyBob fixed it with some Bondo and a rattle can! Tell CARFaX, will you?"

Accepting the CARFaX as gospel in lieu of professional appraisal got you in trouble. Nothing to do with Cadillac or the dealerships. No, they won't help you 5 years down the road. Cadillac Customer Care can/will also do nothing - except send you back to your dealership.

Many of us here use CARFax all the time - but we don't believe everything contained therein - and we know there are glaring omissions. I had a used car dealer license and flipped cars out of the auction in Manheim, PA.
 
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#7 · (Edited by Moderator)
To Submariner409, The professional appraisal I had was a Cadillac Dealer telling me the car is legit and mechanically stable.

Carfax or no Carfax, I was sold a Cadillac Escalade ESV (one of the most expensive GM auto's) that had major structural damage and possibly (and i stress possibly) and unsafe vehicle.
Up until just a few weeks ago, I thought buying from a Cadillac Dealer would give me more assurance that I am purchasing a vehicle than from a Saturn or other lower end dealer.

Quoting the exact words from another Cadillac Dealer "IF they put this on a lift like they are supposed to, they would have seen the damage" I worked for an auto body shop from
when I was 14 yrs thru 20 years old and a bent frame rears its ugly face every time. You simply can not hide that with bondo. Now sorry subman, but I dont own or have a vehicle
lift in my driveway to do things like this, I just trusted a Cadillac dealer to deliver a good automobile.

Identical double posts have been merged. Sub
 
#11 ·
.......... and a "professional" car examination/certification by a selling dealership may be akin to a rigged shell game.

Many used car buyers enlist the aid of an independent mechanic to do their car inspections pre-buy. It's well-spent term insurance.
 
#14 · (Edited)
No, you don't. I used to be a parts runner for a huge DC Cadillac dealership. One of their (and other dealers) used car adages was "There's an ass for every seat!". Just for shits, kicks, and relaxation I currently work part-time behind the parts counter at our local Western (Tire &) Auto. I see many used cars come in for buyer evaluation inspections.

If your vehicle has a bent frame it should never have come close to earning a CPO badge. A dealer (maybe not GM/Cadillac-owned, but a bought franchise) screwed you, not Cadillac.

EDIT: I hate to say this, but in the DC area (at least) a Hyundai dealership is head and shoulders above the Cadillac dealerships when it comes to perceived "honesty". And just because an Escalade is grossly overpriced (think Suburban, Tahoe, etc.) does not make one whit as to the attention which should be paid to used vehicle inspection or certification.
 
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#15 ·
still doesn't explain why this is a manufacturer problem instead of a dealer problem. If this happened at a Hyundai dealer, would you be blaming the dealer or Hyundai in South Korea. My gentle suggestion is that you lose the attitude and huge chip on your shoulder. Pretty sure Sub knows what a CPO is, as do I. You're not getting off to a good start here.
 
#21 · (Edited)
Westwoodfd - from the Site Rules and Guidelines which you electronically signed upon registering as a CF member. Insults directed at other members are grounds for removal from the site.

https://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/forum-rules-guidelines/127303-inappropriate-language.html


We all understand that you're mightily pissed at the undisclosed damage discovery, but it's NOT Cadillac's fault!

........ and you fully understand what GFYD stands for - it's a direct insult.

http://acronymsandslang.com/meaning-of/chat-and-sub-cultures/GFYD.html
 
#23 ·
I agree with others that surely you should blame "Cadillac" and take the attitude that you'll never buy another Cadillac. I'm sure this carfax-omission problem happens
at all brands and at many dealers.

Your dealer should be stepping up to help out ... and surely if your car was sold as a CPO vehicle they should have inspected your vehicle and easily seen that there was damage. On a modern vehicle I think the air bag deployment would have been logged into the computer and would be apparent. But I have no idea about the specifics of whether that technology existed in 2009.

I recently bought a used CTS and trusted the carfax a bit too much, I now realize. My purchase was just several months ago. I think I should probably go have an independent mechanic give it a look to make sure I don't have something like this come haunt me years from now. (Tho my car has a history at the same dealership, so they should know it's exact history ... no excuse for the dealer to play ignorant)

Lastly ... have you been a good partner/customer at your dealer, or have you possibly given them reasons to not feel charitable towards you?

Good luck. This would frustrate the hell out of me.
 
#25 ·
CarFAX didn’t cost you $5,000; you cost yourself $5,000 by ignoring due diligence, (legalese for common sense) when you purchased your car five years ago.

Let’s review what you’ve written:

Post #1: The CarFAX report was listed thirteen months after the accident, which by your account was prior to you purchasing the vehicle. You didn’t run a (free) CarFAX check did you? Mistake #1.

Did you have an independent mechanical inspection performed? If not: Mistake #2.

ALWAYS OBTAIN A CARFAX REPORT, GM VEHICLE MAINTENANCE HISTORY, AND AN INDEPENDENT INSPECTION PERFORMED BEFORE PLACING A DEPOSIT ON A PRE-OWNED VEHICLE. So simple, but often ignored.

Post #12: “To Submariner, do I have to explain to you what "Certified Pre Owned" means?”

You never mentioned the vehicle was a CPO purchase in any (prior or late) post, just that it was inspected. Mistake #3. Well, pretty much any used car is inspected before it’s bought (trade-in, auction, etc). CPO is very different.

IF you have the CPO paperwork and IF there’s obvious structural damage that any competent mechanic could not miss during even a cursory inspection, (CPO is much more involved) then you may have a good chance to prove the sale was fraudulent, based on the CPO results and ask for $5,000 in damages plus legal fees. A good attorney can review the facts and advise you if you have a case.

Apparently, during the five years you’ve been driving the vehicle, it doesn’t seem you had a clue it was previously involved in an accident. . . Hmmm . . .

At best, you’re partly to blame for not doing your homework before an expensive purchase. At worst, you’ve dealing with a dealership that may have signed off on a fraudulent CPO inspection IF the damage was obvious.

My post-lease turn-in car had a minor accident listed on its CarFAX report the dealership said they were unaware of. But honestly, it isn’t the salesman’s responsibility to check or even inform me if they knew: It’s MY responsibility.
I wouldn’t hold the entire brand responsible for the actions of a single dealer. From everything you’ve written, the blame rests squarely on your purchasing mistake unless you can prove the dealership intentionally hid the accident from you, that by your own admission was listed by CarFAX shortly before you made the purchase.

To blame CarFAX is totally misplaced. Mistake #4. You really struck out with one strike to spare on this argument.

Caveat emptor. Learn or repeat. Good luck; it sounds like you'll need it.
 
#27 ·
what do you mean a "Vacation" byrdman? Just to prove how ignorant you are with your replies, I am in touch with Cadillac and they dont seem to have the
same opinion about me that you do. I will announce the good news I am getting when all is said and done. Im sure you in particular wont like it, but everyone
else will, and it will serve as a good place to go to for anyone who had something like this happen to them.
 
#30 ·
what do you mean a "Vacation" byrdman? Just to prove how ignorant you are with your replies, I am in touch with Cadillac and they dont seem to have the same opinion about me that you do. I will announce the good news I am getting when all is said and done. Im sure you in particular wont like it, but everyone else will, and it will serve as a good place to go to for anyone who had something like this happen to them.
as Sub said, if GM/Cadillac is going to help that is truly a good thing. I won't dislike nor like the news when you get this resolved; it will be interesting to hear the result. You were suspended for 7 days, hence the "vacation". Suggest you re-read post 21.
From the looks of other posts in this thread it doesn't appear that you have any support for blaming GM. But, if GM decided to step up and help, then great.
 
#28 ·
To cclarke, Maybe you should go back and read my posts. I will address your points each

Your Mistake 1- Yes the dealer showed me the carfax when I purchased it. I purchased it in March 2014, and the carfax they showed me was dated November 2013.
It did not show any accident. It showed up 13 months later on the cafax

Your Mistake 2- It was a certified pre owned and the Dealer also claims a Multi point inspection is done. Why would I hire someone to do the exact same thing?

Yes I drove it around for 5 years, and it seemed OK. Body shops all over the country straighten out bent frames. As long as you dont get into another major
accident, then everything will be OK.

Mistake 4 - You really think its OK for carfax to report damage 13 months after it happened? Maybe 1 to 2 months later, but not 13 months.

Seems like I still have many strikes to spare, dont you think cclarke?
 
#29 ·
Once again, with feeling: CARFaX does NOT and can NOT report on something that is not reported to them. If something showed up 13 months after the fact/repair, that's in no way the fault of CARFaX. Someone sat on the report for some reason. Also, so long after the fact it's a mystery why the accident/repair was EVER reported. With some sleuthing by the selling dealer it may be possible to learn the source of the accident repair report.

FWIW, I can go into my CARFaX Garage online and change a 10 year old entry for my STS - right now. Edit it, fake it, remove it, glorify it. It's a voluntary reporting service. They cannot be held liable for what's posted to their database. Read their fine print. (No, I cannot change/enter/modify the reports that are within the dealership/state reporting parts of the system.)

It has been pointed out that, regardless of CPO or whatever, an independent qualified mechanic's inspection is cheap term insurance in the used car field. We do skrillions of private buyer inspections at the shop.

Sounds as if GM/Cadillac/someone has reached a positive decision on your complaint and that's a good thing.
 
#31 ·
To Byrdman, well obviously Cadillac Divisional in Detriot Michigan thinks totally differently then you and a few of the others here.
Oh and by the way, I have better things to do with my life than spend my whole life looking at this website, so if you suspended me, I guess I
never even knew and dont care.

And you called me an "OP". That is a very bad word. I think that is in violations of the forum rules and guidelines. You should be put
on "Vacation" also for such disgracefull language!
 
#32 ·
OP = Original Poster, commonly used on thousands of message boards across the internet. I typically spend 5 minutes at a time on the forums, for a total of about an hour a day.

If GM decided to help you out, then good for you and kudos to GM.
 
#34 · (Edited)
My wife just went through a similar situation with bad info on a Carfax report. Last year, about two months in between, she had two minor accidents. First was rear ended at a red light. Next was a car ran a red light on the shoulder while the driver was texting.

The rear end collision involved a new bumper cover, new bumper pistons and refinishing of the bumper cover. The other involved a new bumper cover with refinishing and one new headlight. Sounds simple...

Not so. This past weekend she started looking for deals on new cars. She offered her car for a trade in. When the salesman ran the Carfax the second accident showed structural damage. If the dealer was interested in taking the car it would be at a substantial loss.

While investigating further, she returned to the body shop that did the repairs. She filed a claim directly with the other driver's insurance and that insurance company has an adjuster assigned to that body shop. The adjuster explained that a "third party" reviews and submits information to Carfax. Without even inspecting the car this "third party" reported the structural damage. She is now in negotiation with this insurance company to receive payment equaling the difference between Kelley Blue Book value and the "average" offer for trade in. (She needs two offers from two different dealers.) Evidently, it seems, once information is put into a Carfax report it cannot be removed...

UPDATE: It seems the insurance adjuster provided some inaccurate information... Carfax contacted my wife a few days after her visit to the body shop. They reviewed the claim, specifically what was repaired on the car and other notes from the original adjuster. They agreed the car did not have structural damage and removed that note from the Carfax report. She got a free sixty day access to her car's report. She printed a copy and it appears the structural damage note was immediately removed. It seems making a complaint can yield positive results...
 
#36 · (Edited)
Yes I heard from Cadillac Divisional today and the news is not good. As I stated from the beginning, the 13 month delay with Cafax is not the dealer or Cadillacs fault,
but I do dispute the dealer not knowing about this serious accident. As far as Brogan Cadillac not seeing the damage on their "multi point inspection" Cadillac divisional
is claiming that its up to the dealer how they inspect their cars for sale and that they dont govern their practices.

OK so Brogan Cadillac barely inspect the car. But here is what bothers me the most:

Every time I traded in a car for a newer car, or returned a lease at the end of the lease term, The dealer insisted I sign a form stating that I did not roll back the odometer,
parked the car in a flood, was involved in an accident, etc, etc. From other posts here, this may be a New Jersey only thing, I dont know. But Brogan and Open Road Cadillac
here in NJ made me do this.

When I asked Brogan Cadillac for a copy of this form filled out by the previous owner, they all of a sudden say they dont give out that information !!!!

Which leads me to believe that the previous owner notified Brogan about this accident, but they dont want to show it to me because it would mean they knew
about this accident before they sold me the car. If the previous owner did NOT disclose this, then Brogan would be the first to throw this in my face to prove
me wrong.

So now I have to have my lawyer subpeona it and it will take a long time. Im not giving up until I see this form. When I told Cadillac divisional that they dont
want to show me this form, they said that they dont get involved with things like this.

So to sum it up, if Brogan Cadillac murdered the Pope, they will still stand by them. Myself and my wife will NEVER buy a Cadillac ever again and if anyone wants
to disagree with how I feel, then go ahead. I dont care. All I know is they lost 2 long time faithfull customers, and my cousins and inlaws who also own Caddy's
will never buy one again after I told them of this story.
 
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